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Constant misuse of scripture used out of context.
While it might happen sometimes unintentionally or out of ignorance of some members - not meant as an insult - , I doubt it's "constan" . Still , you'll probably claim the same about Islam and that you don't quote a thing out of context and that will go forever . The place for that is a discussion or a debate if you want .
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The continued insult to Jesus by the term used son of Mary. Although one Muslim in the past did have the good grace to say he would use another title in regards to Jesus when in dialogue with me.
Forgotten me alrady , Pandora ? And for the record , it is the noble Quran who calls him so . We don't just that title to anger you or whatever it is some might think .
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Poorly thought out titles for threads, which shows a serious lack of knowledge on the topic chosen
Maybe . But if someone wasn't succesful to choose an accurate title , why don't you just focus on the actual thread ?
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The demands to respect all muslims and Islam when the same respect is not reciprocated....
Personally , I could handle insults against me to a degree . What I can NEVER tolerate is insults to Allah , Islam , the prophets peace upon them , the companions of the prophet , and others . And while it might be a nature of humans to be somewhat biased in favor of the ones they know , you should remind everyone in case you were offended .
Pandora , I believe you realize that I'm - don't mean to be arrogant - am the best among us Muslim members when it comes to English . That's because it's not our native language . So it is to be expected that choices of words are not always accurate . And I explained to you .
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from a biblical perspective ...
Stop right there . You said it . It's from Bibilical prespective . One we don't believe in . And did you read what I wrote properly ? Prophets don't sin WHILE THEY KNOW . They make mistakes . That's different . No prophet would disobey Allah knowing he is with his full will . If they do commit a sin , they ask Allah forgivness and leave it immediately . That's if we agree that they are "sins" .
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By viewing some minor sins as mere mistakes is dangerous indeed, It's not for man to decide what is sin and what is mistake.
Are you telling me that a man killing another "by mistake" is the same as one who kills "intentionally" ? THAT'S dangerous .
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I do not think Islam stresses the importance of sin or it's effect on mankind and a Holy God.
Well I'll be honest , what you think is dead wrong . Indeed , one shouldn't look at the size of his sin but at WHOM he disobeyed . Still , that doesn't mean there isn't a difference . Thus Allah says :
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68:35 Then will We treat the Muslims like the criminals?
And that brings a question I've been meaning to ask : In case you don't believe anyone who disbelieves in Christianity is destined to hell , where is you talk about how sins are all the same agains God ? And in case you object on hell as told by Islam , where is it that yo usay God is who decides what sins are ?
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Who are we to decide what people God should chose as a prophet?
I won't sweet talk , Pandora . We're talking common sense here . We're talking about the greatest messages from the almighty to mankind . You yourself wouldn't just give important items to just anyone to deliver them so how on Earth can you say such a thing about THE most important message ever ? We're not talking about mere mistakes or flukes . We're talking about people you claim have killed souls with no right to , commited adultery and incest , and turned OUTRIGHT DISBELIEVERS . HOW on Earth are they any good to deliver such a message ? In Islam , a prophet NEVER lies or makes mistakes when it comes to the message , it's not the same with you . If we can't trust the messenger , why should we trust the message ? Faith ? Well I'll be honest and say that you should start relying on other than lone faith for your belief .
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We can be fooled by a hypocrite or an evil person masquerading as good. God cannot.
And why should I believe that YOUR belief about God is right ? Don't mean to be rude , but if all that is you rely on is mere faith , there's no point making any arguments or discussions at all .
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You can see for yourself under the thread.. Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity... Posts 81 and 87 the use of the word ignorant was seen as an insult. Which seeing everyone is ignorant of something as we all cannot know everything is not really an insult in the true sense of the term. I don't believe it was meant as such.. But maybe Burninglight did not realise the depth of Muslim sensibilities on such a matter. I feel a warning would have been more appropriate and at least a chance to offer an apology. Everyone should be offered the chance of making amends I feel.
While he could have used a word that isn't easily seen as an insult - "ignorance" can be you know - , if the case is the same as you described , perhaps he should have recieved a warning indeed .
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As for insulting a Muslim member well... Insults were not one way and on balance it seemed Burninglight was at the receiving end of harsher insults..
Let us be honest Pandora , you've seen Burnlight's method of arguments and how he completely ignores critical matters of the discussion and how he simply LOVES to flood the thread with ANY and EVERY allegation he has about Islam no matter how much unrelated it is . Aside from being against the rules of any respectful forum , it hinders conversations from going any further and wastes everyone's time . You didn't see anyone saying such a thing about you , right ? The point is , patience has limits . And while it isn't right to bash him as you describe , making hidden insults and constantly slandering Islam and what's holy in it isn't something we take lightly . As I said , you should complain and state that someone is offending you if that happens because sometimes we may not maintain complete neutrality .
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Which I feel looks unfair and if you are representing your religion of Islam... It's not good.
No one I know of claims to completely represent Islam .
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It's already been discussed and Islam has not been proven to me from the evidence and the manner with which it has been presented.
18:29 And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place.
And please spare us the complaining about the torture part .
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The signs may be shining clear to you but they certainly are not to me.
If we would just accept such a statement from whoever and whenever , we should agree with those who say they think circles are squares ! There are things where disagreeing isn't an option and where one side is ABSOLUTELY wrong . You won't believe it if someone brought you quotes as simple as "If A then B" , you won't believe it if you're told that the entire body of Muslims understands this simple fact , you won't even believe it if CHRISTIANS understand this simple fact . So what am I to do with you if you don't want to understand ?!
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Such a claims requires me to believe that God either chose not to protect His message from change by His creation or was unable to do so. Both scenarios are unacceptable with the view I hold of God being all powerful and the creator of all we are and all we can ever be.
With all those claims of weakness and need you have about Allah in the Bible , you contradict yourself here . And for the gazillion time , Allah entrusted the people of the book with the message and they altered it . It's not that he couldn't - exalted he is ! - precieve the message . It is all in his knowledge . And if you dare object , I'll remind you of you - or was it Burnlight - answering the issue of Jacob peace upon him - as you claim - FIGHTING with Allah and actually DEFEATING HIM with "It was in his planning and knowledge" .
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Then we have muslims taking from the Bible... A work they believe to be corrupt.. Validation of Prophet Mohammed being mentioned in the corrupt Scriptures you spend your lives proving false!
Sometimes , you guys miss the point to almost annoying degrees . And repeating things over and over and over only for you to make the same question over and over and over is really frustrating .
YES . We believe the message was corrupted and altered . Whoever said the ENTIRE message was changed ?! Whoever said there isn't truth remaining which matches Quran ? It is you who have an issue with such scriptures and not us .
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Because if I thought and of the Bible was corrupt I would not believe any of it... For you have no way of knowing what was changed and what was not..
We DO have a way to know what was altered . That is Islam and what it teaches . You'll ask : Why do I believe in Islam ? And that's where I tell you we believe it through proof . If you ask what that proof is , that's what debates are made for .
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Without proof... Which you do not have.
Well I say we do have proof . Care to discuss it ? Not with me though cause college is fiendishly draining .
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