The Qur’an Cannot Be A Text of Divine Origin

[نصير الدين]

There are SERIOUS problems with the fundamental methods Pandora and Burnlight argue .

First of all Pandora , what is it that you are dissapointed for ? If we put the sarcastic title of the thread and the way it was presented aside , what is there for you to be upset about ? The point of it is mentioning a number of negative aspects ascribed to the prophets in the Bible . We don't believe in them of course but you do . So you're supposed to deny that they exist in the Bible - can't see that happening with such clear quotes - , demonstrate that they are true but NOT negative aspects , admit that they are negative aspects because - as I heard from you two MANY times - prophets are not sinless , OR admit that this can't be of a divine source .

No need to say we'll disagree with any of the three points I mentioned and make our own countering arguments but the problem here is that not even one of them was made .

As for Burnlight , I'm not sure if he's banned completely or temporally . Not sure what happened exactly but I'll trust my brothers and sisters for the time being since I know his method . When we look at his argument , if he tries to patch a place , another one is exposed ! Here he claims that the Bible isn't directly revelaed by Allah but rather by men inspired from him . Aside from the fact that there's a number of those men we don't know so far , HOW do you know that they didn't alter a thing ? Are you saying that they mentioned false things which differ from reality or what ?! If that's the case , that is a HUGE problem for Christians ! So I hope you or Pandora explain clearly . I'll repeat what I told Pandora . This thread mentions a number of negative aspects you ascribe to the prophets peace upon them . So , from what you're saying , you either don't deny that they are true and thus these negative aspects are indeed associated with the ones supposed to deliver the message - A huge problem by itself ! - or that they are not and that the writers wrote false things - intentionally or not - which differ from reality and presented them as the message of the lord . BOTH are great issues which cannot be ignored . So am I missing something ?

Don't you notice that everything you accuse Islam of actually exist in the book you believe in ? So who's throwing rocks on others while his house is made of glass ? There was a topic which title partially says "Don't object" and it lists a load of such examples but I can't seem to find it .

[pandora]

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There are SERIOUS problems with the fundamental methods Pandora and Burnlight argue .

First of all Pandora , what is it that you are dissapointed for ? If we put the sarcastic title of the thread and the way it was presented aside , what is there for you to be upset about ? The point of it is mentioning a number of negative aspects ascribed to the prophets in the Bible . We don't believe in them of course but you do . So you're supposed to deny that they exist in the Bible - can't see that happening with such clear quotes - , demonstrate that they are true but NOT negative aspects , admit that they are negative aspects because - as I heard from you two MANY times - prophets are not sinless , OR admit that this can't be of a divine source .

No need to say we'll disagree with any of the three points I mentioned and make our own countering arguments but the problem here is that not even one of them was made .

As for Burnlight , I'm not sure if he's banned completely or temporally . Not sure what happened exactly but I'll trust my brothers and sisters for the time being since I know his method . When we look at his argument , if he tries to patch a place , another one is exposed ! Here he claims that the Bible isn't directly revelaed by Allah but rather by men inspired from him . Aside from the fact that there's a number of those men we don't know so far , HOW do you know that they didn't alter a thing ? Are you saying that they mentioned false things which differ from reality or what ?! If that's the case , that is a HUGE problem for Christians ! So I hope you or Pandora explain clearly . I'll repeat what I told Pandora . This thread mentions a number of negative aspects you ascribe to the prophets peace upon them . So , from what you're saying , you either don't deny that they are true and thus these negative aspects are indeed associated with the ones supposed to deliver the message - A huge problem by itself ! - or that they are not and that the writers wrote false things - intentionally or not - which differ from reality and presented them as the message of the lord . BOTH are great issues which cannot be ignored . So am I missing something ?

Don't you notice that everything you accuse Islam of actually exist in the book you believe in ? So who's throwing rocks on others while his house is made of glass ? There was a topic which title partially says "Don't object" and it lists a load of such examples but I can't seem to find it .

I don't know if my reply will be posted because I have not been granted permission to contribute to this thread. I just want to say.. I am not "upset" at all... Any personal disappointment is due to the methods employed on this forum only.. In their dealing with scripture. I have no issue at all with how the Bible portrays the prophets and I believe it is truth being as they were human and were not immune to sin. It is not a negative view... But an honest view. Besides the Biblical prophets who are acknowledged in the Quran are not portrayed as sinless, so I fail to see where your problem is. Why would I deny the accounts? I believe they are truth... Why do you see that a prophet who may on occasion lapse and sin against God would be hindered by this very human condition in delivering Gods revelation? It is the revelation the prophet brought which is divine in nature not the historical account of the actual prophet... In Christianity the message is always of paramount importance... The message itself NOT the messenger.

I cannot reply for Burninglight, and now he is unable to reply for himself... Having being banned.

I don't object to anything in the Quran because I do not accept the Quran as a revelation from God for numerous reasons. So far I have seen no proof that the Quran can indeed be a revelation from YHWH.... If it were it would not be diametrically opposed to the previous scriptures it claims to confirm. Bible corruption doesn't come into it either.. Because no conclusive proof has been produced to substantiate this claim. I can respect the Quran because you as muslims revere it as your holy scripture... I do not have to believe in it.

I have asked for for permission to start a new thread regarding the prophets.. If permission is granted I will address such queries there.

Peace unto you.

[محمد سني 1989]

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I have no issue at all with how the Bible portrays the prophets and I believe it is truth being as they were human and were not immune to sin. It is not a negative view

But we are not talking just about any sin rather , murder, adultry , incest , arguing with god , building idols and worshipping it!!!!!!
This is in its self a negative view

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. Besides the Biblical prophets who are acknowledged in the Quran are not portrayed as sinless, so I fail to see where your problem is.

No that is not true , prophets in he quran are immune to sin , no where are they portrayed a the bible portrays them

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Why would I deny the accounts? I believe they are truth...

Because as brother نصير الدين said the problem still presents itself

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. This thread mentions a number of negative aspects you ascribe to the prophets peace upon them . So , from what you're saying , you either don't deny that they are true and thus these negative aspects are indeed associated with the ones supposed to deliver the message - A huge problem by itself ! - or that they are not and that the writers wrote false things - intentionally or not - which differ from reality and presented them as the message of the lord . BOTH are great issues which cannot be ignored

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If it were it would not be diametrically opposed to the previous scriptures it claims to confirm.

I think this has been discussed already , the verse in the Quran talks about the Original Torah and gospel which have been revieled to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them not the one the jews and christians manipulated

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Bible corruption doesn't come into it either.. Because no conclusive proof has been produced to substantiate this claim

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This has already been discussed where I presented such and still have not received an answer about it, except questions to me about my intention in such presentations of facts


peace