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Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
Yes I agree so far with you



I cited my resource , I would not have brought up the interpritation of pulpit if you have not copied and pasted from that website

As for hebrew literiture, it is talking about the scripture or what else would it be talking about !!!! literiture is something written , I do not think I have to explain that :

There are indications enough that the Hebrew literature was not entirely confined to those whom we look up to as the inspired writers

notice the word inspired !!!!! meaning those writting the word of god

9"The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD


Look friend, there is nothing wrong with citing off the internet, and I'm not criticising you for doing so... So stop trying to take offence where none is meant. I already said my bad.. For forgetting to state my source at to he end of my post.
Regarding "Hebrew Literature" .. You are joking here right? Not all Hebrew literature was considered the inspired word of God... Early Jewish Apocrypha also had its place in society but was NOT considered inspired or part of the Jewish canon. You understand that literature is written but you do not seem to understand that NOT all literature is inspired by God!! I am sometimes inspired by the world around me to write poetry... Should I claim God directly inspired me to write poetry?? If I did claim thus is my poetry of divine origin???

***They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD***
yes ... They have rejected the word of The Lord .... Preferring instead there own version.

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The manipulation of Words not interpritation :
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Lo, certainly in vain made he it; either the law, which was made or given in vain by the Lord to this people, since they made no better use of it, and valued themselves upon having it, without acting according to it; or the pen of the scribe, which was made by him in vain to write it, as follows:

the pen of the scribes is in vain; in vain, and to no purpose, were the scribes employed in writing out copies of the law, when either it was not heard or read, or however the things it enjoined were not put in practice; or the pen of the scribes was in vain, when employed in writing out false copies of the law, or false glosses and interpretations of it, such as were made by the Scribes and Pharisees in Christ's time, and the fathers before them, by whose traditions the word of God was made of none effect: and so the Targum,

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

This I think speaks out for itself , the manipulation of words happened and it is the actual jewish and christian interpritation of the passage , the author stated that the manipulation continued in writting NOT interpritation only but also writting false passages till the time of Jesus peace be upon him


Writing out copies of the Law... Writing out false copies of the Law.. Copies... does NOT imply the original is in any way changed.

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Problem with your logic is that you are clearly saying that they wrote words according to their personal gain and then you say no it did not affect and its no proof!!!! this statement does not make any sense!!!
how does it not make sense to you? Let me give you an example of what I'm trying to get you to understand here..

The Bible in my church is ancient and revered.. We do not handle it..(we have our own Bibles for that purpose) Passages, parables and teachings are read to us as part of our worship.. I can listen intently and later interpret the verse or whatever and may come to a different understanding of it.. I could think well ..it could also mean this or that, I could then write a copy of my interpretation and distribute it to others saying really you are in error this is the real meaning of this or that verse.. I ask you to think here and apply your logic.. In doing this have I in anyway changed what is originally written in the Bible in my Church? I may lead some people astray with my false interpretation.. Those who did not know or care for the true Bible could be swayed... Especially if my interpretation is more agreeable to them. But as long as the true Bible stays in my church my corruption of the text is easy to see as being a false interpretation... If one doubted that the Church Bible had not also been changed by myself then they would only need to check any of the hundreds of other Bibles in the locality to see the falseness of my efforts. I would be guilty of being a lying scribe.. Thankfully there are always those guided by God to point out my errors. So.. In conclusion.. No matter how many copies falsely made by lying scribes and distributed as Gods word by false prophets and teachers the true word of God will always remain unchanged. Your article from Gills exposition of the entire Bible and the article I posted basically say the same. You just don't see it.

As a librarian with access to archives I know and understand the importance that is placed on historical documents.. Even church records going back to the 17th century are handled rarely and under strict conditions.. How much more so do you think this would be with the Torah which for the Jewish people is sacred?


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Your personal opinions does not (with all do respect) matter in this case with the christian interpritors of the bible and the context of the passage and what it says clearly says otherwise
Neither do yours.. (With all due respect) what do you think a Christian interpreter of the Bible is for heavens sake?? Do you think they have special powers or something? Do Islamic scholars have special powers? Or like scholars the world over spend years studying a particular field to best understand it. Even among scholars opinions differ.

[QUOTE ]WRONG , both the Quran and hadeeth teach that there are false prophets and will be also in the future.

Check your facts before stating your claims [/QUOTE]

I stand corrected.. However does the Quran not tell you to believe the Prophets?

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Ya that is why previously you said it is probably unlikely!!!! that sounds like a big maybe to me

NO your article claimed that :

I think its sad that you and the writer failed miseribly in proving your point , because at the end the writer of this article based ALL of his claims on his PERSONAL opinion NOT the christian interpritation like Gill's exposition or pulpit commentary. It is quite obvious that the writer knew the delema he was being faced by the claims of the muslims so he resorted to such misguided and twisted interpritation of the simple clear text


The contradiction exists by the way since after all of what your author said he made one and major mistake at the end of his article when he said this :

This is a clear contradiction with what he said earlier :

Do you see how the writer is confused !!!! He doesn't know what he is pointing out !!!

NOPE , that is you who are getting hung up on these words for the passage explains itself it is simple !!!!


Verse 36. - And the burden of the Lord, etc.; i.e. ye shall no longer use the word massa at all. Every man's word shall be his burden; rather, the burden to every man shall be his word; i.e. his derisive use of the word massa shall be a burden which shall crush him to the ground. Ye have perverted; i.e. have turned them round, and put them into a ridiculous light" (Payne Smith).

This shows that there were jews who had fallsified prophecies an lied and made fun of it !!!!!

Clearly this means that if they were ready to mock God's words and his prophets they were ready to manipulate his words which would be seen as no problem

It makes absolutely no sense to debate about this after this
What I really see as sad is your unwillingness to understand anything... Even when we cite sources that both essentially make the same claim you feel the need to disgree. It's almost to the point of disagreeing for the point of it. Claims of the muslims!!!! Like we should be worried about what claims muslims make about Christianity or the Bible or the person of Christ Jesus. Sorry.. To disappoint, we are not unduly concerned. There is nothing constructive you have added here at all and it's for that reason I don't feel this is worth pursuing any further. You keep using the word "clearly" but really this is only clear in your opinion.. Your reasoning is about as clear as mud to me! You are indeed a difficult person to talk with ...lol... However I still can love you as a brother in humanity and wish you all the best on your chosen path.

Peace and Gods grace upon you, I pray He will show you His divine love and guide you to His truth.