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Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
Dear Pandora,
1- In the name of Allah the Beneficent and Merciful.I hope that we discuss the matters with all friendliness, respect , candor and clarity.Without any hatred or any arrogance or any despising because we are all the children of Adam and Eve.We always forget that we are all brothers and sisters.The Almighty Allah (praise be to him) created us and made us nations and tribes to know each other.To spread peace among ourselves . This is an appeal declared in the Qur'an. Allah says in the Holy Quran :-
"O mankind! we created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and Tribes, that ye may know Each other (Not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the Most honoured of you In the sight of Allah is (He who is) the Most righteous of you. and Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)" (49/13)
-- This declaration is for all mankind all over the world. The most honoured people in the sight of Allah not the most beautiful or the most interesting or the most wealthy or the strongest no but the most righteous ,pure pious and devout.Allah does not look at our images or shapes but He (pbth) look at our hearts.The righteous people always have pure hearts.They always fear Allah and love all his creatures.
2- Allah (pbth) taught us how to treat with each other and how to spread peace and love with each other . Allah says in the Holy Quran :- " O ye who believe! let not some men among you laugh at others: it may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): nor let some women laugh at others: it may be that the (latter are better than the (former): nor defame nor be sarcastic to Each other, nor call Each other by (offensive) nicknames: . seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after He has believed: and those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong. 12. O ye who believe! avoid suspicion As much (as possible): for suspicion In some cases is a sin: and spy not on Each other behind their backs. would any of you like to eat the flesh of His dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear Allah. for Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.(49/11-12)
--- These are some principles that Allah (pbth) taught us .If I do well that is by the grace of Allah and his support.And if I do bad that is by my ignorance and the support of the accursed Satan. Oh my God. Shield us from the evils of ourselves and our bad deeds.
3- As you see Jesus (peace be upon him) as God or a son of God. Please ,Trust me this is a serious saying. Excuse me this is the eye of blasphemy and infidelity .This saying is the biggest insult to the Almighty God .It will never make Jesus (pbuh) happy,on the contrary it makes him very sad and very afraid to the state of his followers that overestimated and exaggerated in his love that they make him God. All evidences in the Bible deny the divinty of Jesus.Please refer to my article under the title " God is one in the Torah,in the Bible and in the Quran.Also track all the sayings of Jesus himself that ends with the phrase " who sent me " .In these sayings he confirmed that he is a messenger of Allah .Allah sent him to guide people to know and worship the only true God of that universe.Please tell me one only verse in the Bible that Jesus said "I am God worship me"
4- I will tell you the opinion of The Holy Quran (the last revelation in that world ) about the phrase "son of God" (and of course you are free to believe or not believe .To read them or not.To say I am not intrested or not)
68. They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son!" - glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things In the heavens and on earth! no warrant have ye for this! say ye about Allah what ye know not?
69. Say: "Those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper."
70. A Little enjoyment In This world!- and then, to us will be their return, then shall we make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies.(10/68-70)

88. They say: "((Allah)) Most gracious has begotten a son!"
89. Indeed ye have put forth a thing Most monstrous!
90. At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down In utter ruin,
91. That They should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious.
92. For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most gracious that He should beget a son.
93. Not one of the beings In the heavens and the earth but must come to ((Allah)) Most gracious As a servant.
94. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly.
95. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. (19/88-95)
26. And They say: "((Allah)) Most gracious has begotten offspring." glory to Him! They are (but) servants raised to honour.
27. They speak not before He speaks, and They act (in all things) by His command.
28. He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and They offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and They stand In awe and reverence of His (Glory).
29. If any of them should say, "I am a god besides Him", such a one we should reward with Hell: Thus do we reward those who do wrong. (21/26-29)
to be continued
Dear friend, you have given so much information here I'm not sure what it is you wish me to address. Or indeed if you are even interested in my point of view as to why a Christian believes as we do, it seems like muslims feel Christians have arrived by chance at an understanding of Gods message and we sort of make it up as we will.... This is not so. God placed us where God wants us to be, God gave us His truth through His Word.. Christ Jesus. We need to be clear about that. It appears to me that it is your intention to attempt to prove this Word God gave us is false, or even more incredible has been changed. On the first point I question... Why would God give us His Word which was not true to His divine being? On the second point I would ask... Why would God allow low men to change His Word? Either scenario I have difficulty ascribing to a Holy God, and my view is God is indeed Holy above all.

On your point of Gods declaration in regards to mankind... We can concur agreement here. As the Bible says the exact same thing. Christians may take it further in believing that the physical body is not as important to God than our soul, after all our body is purely a vehicle for our soul until such time as it returns to God. This body is a great gift, so of course we should be duty bound to keep ourselves fit and healthy so we are able to serve God in the best way. Maybe that is why we have less regulation in such matters as dress etc. for we do not see what clothes we wear have any baring on the state of our soul.

In regards to Jesus and His divinity, your answers are of course from your own Islamic perspective... Only natural.. And obviously.. Again only natural.. I do not see how they apply. As it seems clear from your quotes from the Quran, Christians have never viewed the son ship of Jesus in the way the Quran describes, which in itself is odd... If God was referring to Christians, then God as omniscient would know the hearts truth of what we believe.

Christians believe as the Bible and Jesus Himself through His words and actions taught.. Jesus Christ is the Son of God become human. By Son.. We do NOT mean biological son as we apply to human relationships and all that entails. Such belief is blasphemy of the worst kind. Jesus is truly a human being, our brother. He was born to a human mother, grew up and matured, learnt a trade, suffered hunger and thirst, displayed joy and compassion, anxiety and anger. He was a human being with body and soul – truly one of us, close to us. We see Jesus as same in essence as God the father... Jesus taught that His relationship was different with God the father as our relationship was with God. By Gods action through His Word Jesus, we the whole of humanity is healed by His love for us.

The Incarnation and the divinity of Jesus are a central theme in the Christian faith. For Christians, the doctrine of the Incarnation does not mean the deification of a man. Rather, in the Incarnation the eternal Word of God takes on a human nature and so becomes a human being. The expression Son of God serves as a pointer to the divine origin of Jesus and to the fact that in Jesus God has made himself present to humanity in a unique way. It is not a biological statement, such as would make of God a parent in the ordinary human sense. The church has always maintained that God neither begets nor is begotten... This corresponds to Quran which also says the same... Although I'm not sure that the context of this verse in the Quran refers to Christians and their beliefs.. It could refer to Meccan polytheism, which did attribute biological procreation to God, and seeing as Mohammed's message was aimed at the Meccan's initially it seems reasonable to suppose it was meant at them.


It remains central for Christian faith that the Son of God is one of us, with all that that entails, sin excepted. Jesus is therefore both divine and human in one person. You as a Muslim will never be able to accept this and I see even this must be difficult for you to read, yet, sometimes one has to face difficult things and even though you are unable totally to accept this, you should at least be able to see that to a Christian it makes perfect sense.. Because Gods Spirit assures us so. In truth Jesus is both fully human and fully divine, that is fully human, with a human soul and a human will, so that through his obedient humanity he could redeem our humanity, and yet also fully God, of one substance with the Father. Divinity and humanity are united in essence and purpose. This in no way detracts from the greatness of God, or the Oneness of God. The Bible and Jesus are also clear on the Oneness of God the Father, and indeed there is nothing comparable to Him.

In regards to Weather Jesus making or not making the claim "I am God worship me" is largely irrelevant. No where in the Bible does Jesus say these exact words, yet no where in the Bible does Jesus say he is not God and do not worship me. Sometimes words are not as strong as actions, there are many instances where Jesus accepted worship, and acted with authority in matters where it was accepted that such authority belonged to God alone.

My main issue with the Quran is to some extent it's misrepresentation of the beliefs of both Christians and to similar extent the Jews. These beliefs were then as they are now and long set in canons hundreds of years before the Quran was revealed. How the Quran represents the opinions of Christian belief at worse is in error at best it could only apply to a few gnostic sects found in that part of the world at that time. I cannot understand this. If the Quran was meant to be a final "instalment" or an "update" of what went before then I would expect it to have a more definitive idea of what it is replacing. I apologise if my words seem harsh and I really do not wish to cause offence but I am trying to answer your questions whilst also trying to let you see my doubts about Islam. I feel I have to be honest here, and to be honest sometimes one has to be blunt.

Peace and blessings to you.