When was this sura revealed and what is the context?
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Look , it isn't a necessity that each and every single person knows how to present proof properly . We don't know how to prove ourselves that gravity has a force of 9.(something) but we are convinced with what we already saw of evidence presented by experts . That's the case for me at least .
As for our belief , it's a belief as you can tell . And when we're convinced with the evidence that Islam is right , we believe whatever it tells . And while you ask for proof of the people of the book altering the messages , I can simply ask you proof of the miracles Christ performed . So what's the point arguing about that ?
For me.. I do not need proof that needs to conform to mans puny logical understanding to understand God as God has revealed Himself to me in Christianity. I take it on faith that God is indeed great, Holy, Merciful, Just, Loving and every other attribute we apply to God in our attempt to understand Gods divine nature. I just accept that nothing is impossible with God. It's usually muslims demanding this logical evidence of Christianity.. Why is that? If many muslims don't require the same level of proof for the Quran... But take its truth on faith much as we do. ~~~~ hold the front page here.. I think that maybe some kind of agreement between us here and possible common ground tread!!! ;)
Yes, it is your belief and you accept without question what the Quran claims about Christianity and Judaism. Even when Christians point out that we do not and never have believed that God is one of three.. The Jews never claimed Ezra as the son of God.. If this sura is the word of Allah? Why does it not make it clear that this can only have referred to a small minority of Jews and Christians and not all? Now you may well say that scholars have interpreted the meaning that it is not meant to be taken literally.. But if it is taken as read then the meaning looks clear to me. It is tarring all Jews and Christians with the same brush and that leads misunderstandings.
The Jews call Ezra a son of God, and the Christians call the Christ a son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. May Allah destroy them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (Quran 9:30)
Thank you.
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What misconceptions ? I'm just stating what Islam says about the people of the book . You ask "Why don't you believe in the Bible" ? And I say "Because I don't believe it's the original one" . I'm not saying "You shouldn't believe that this is the original Bible as a Christian" . It's a no brainer that you can't be a Christian and say such a thing ! Ironically , that's the same thing you've been trying to impose on us saying that Islam doesn't state the people of the book were entrusted with the message and they altered it .
Misconceptions as above for one.. I'm not trying to impose anything on you.. I was asking for proof of this claim, which really I don't think is unreasonable. Because from where I stand the only way the Quran can be true is if the Bible is false. In my heart I know the Bible is not false so as the ones making the accusations surely asking for proof from Muslim who make such claims is a legitimate request. Besides a few people possibly making changes is not the same as the whole message being changed. I already explained why this would be impossible to do. The Torah was not just one book kept in one place.. But copies of the same existed in every community.. If changes were made to one by some unscrupulous person then it would soon be detected.
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Not really , I have my problems with spelling :) .
Thank you for your understanding. Your spelling ability looks fine to me.
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You did explain and I did tell you we'll refrain from using that title when discussing with you and refer to him as Christ or any other name .
Thank you for your understanding, The Christ, Jesus or Messiah is acceptable... Or even Yeshua.
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Because I believe in the Quran being from Allah and is the final message . Why do I believe that ? I see evidence and proof for it ? What is that ? That would require a whole debate .
I feel this way about the Bible.. :)
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Apparently , I wasn't clear . They say that the original text itself , copy or not , was lost . Anyway , this is all based on my humble knowledge . I said I'll look further into it .
I've addressed this very point on another thread. To sum up in order for there to be a copy of something there has to be an original. If the copy was made from the original autograph then it could not have been lost at that time. Besides I find the notion that someone would be so careless with something they regarded as the divine message of God as to lose it somewhere a bit far fetched.
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For the written scripture to be in Arabic , not really , as for Jews and Christians speaking Arabic , fair enough . Still , it doesn't mean he took Islam from them .
Doesn't mean he didn't either.. I just said the possibility exists.
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Discussing the matter of quoting would require a separate time for itself . But I don't think it needs another thread . If you want , we can return to it later after clearing the rest up . As for the revelation , it is revealed to the prophet peace upon him through many methods :
1 - Visions .
2 - Jibreel arriving in the form of a man .
3 - In his real form .
4 - Allah talks to him directly from behind a veil .
5 - The revelation arrives like the ringing of the bell .
Now I see . We can discuss this here later .
Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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