I'm sorry... but which ever way you cut it the word used is "prostration"not bow. When you prostrate you do so in worship as do I or anyone else. You do not prostrate to someone as a sign of respect. There is a huge difference.
On what basis exactly are you so sure about your definition ? Here's a link :
islamqa.info/en/8492
And I quote :
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Praise be to Allaah.
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Prostrating is of two kinds:
It may an act of veneration and drawing closer to the one to whom one prostrates. This kind of prostration is worship, and should only be done for Allaah, according to the laws of the Prophets.
The second type is a kind of greeting and honouring a person. This is the kind of prostration which Allaah commanded the angels to do in the case of Adam, so they prostrated to him as an act of honouring him. It was an act of worship towards Allaah on their part, because they were obeying His command to prostrate to Adam.
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Why do you think God neglected to tell his people of these jinn?
According to your Bible or other religions ? Don't forget that we don't believe they are the original messages revealed by Allah . I thought we went over this a month ago .
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Especially as they seemingly hold such sway of power for evil,
Incorrect . Jins are like humans in that they have a free will . And there's a Surah named after them :
14 And among us are Muslims [in submission to Allah ], and among us are the unjust. And whoever has become Muslim - those have sought out the right course. 15 But as for the unjust, they will be, for Hell, firewood.'
And the disbelievers of Jins are called devils . Keep in mind that even among humans there are devils and that's because this is a name given to evil doers . Still , generally , when we say "THE devil" it is Iblees .
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The jinn sound a convenience to cover for the fact that although The Quran states angels obey Allah in all things there also exists another power to tempt mankind into sin etc so if angels can't disobey then something else has to take their place.. Jinn.
DON'T , get into baseless hypothesis . And if I remember correctly , I did inform you that the devils are not "THE" cause of sinning . People themselves differ . There are those who obey and those who disobey .
76:3 Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful.
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It's starting to look that we view angels differently also. Maybe that's a topic for another thread.
Exactly .
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I'm not sure how a person who could be considered the lowest of humans through his/her actions be considered lower than an animal.
Again , animals act on instincts and have no minds . A person who has one and YET chooses falsehood is worse . That's why Quran says :
7:179 And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.
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So it does not follow that a "mindless" human is somehow an animal or indeed lower than animal. A human is a human regardless of intellect or ability.
The insane and mentally ill are a different case . That's why an insane person isn't blamed to not accept Islam and is judged on the final day .
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There are different schools of thought regarding weather or not animals have souls in the same way we do. If reading the Bible on the subject I would say no, animals do not have souls as mankind does. Although they are blessed with a spirit seeing as they are sentient beings and have a limited intelligence.
They don't have a soul , but they have a spirit ?!
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so would God allow us to kill and eat a being with a soul?
And the problem is ? There are two reasons to kill an animal : either to benefit from it , or to fend harm . Slaughtering an animal to eat it is included in the first one . And even so , Islam sets strict rules to slaughter an animal in teh most merciful way . One can't sharpen the knife in front of it , slaughter it in front of another , and the one doing it must be "professional" to do it in one swift hit .
And no offense but , what does all of that you tell about your doctrine have to do with the current subject ? Egypt , cats , vegetarians ?
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Isn't this true that is in Islam it is not only love for your prophet as a condition of faith, but also obedience to all he says, because to obey your prophet is to obey Allah?
Indeed , because nothing he orders in religion is from his own , but rather from the almighty himself . You're trying to force the idea that he makes thing up and that's false by default .
53:1 By the star when it descends, 2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, 3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. 4 It is not but a revelation revealed,
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Moreover, you must believe he is the best of creatures; the best of people or humans. Howis this not a worship of man?
Spare us the emotional talk . It's ironic how you've been the one asking away and making claims about Islam and still , you seem to be the most insecure . I told you that the first pillar of Islam includes believing Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and a messenger of Allah . He doesn't claim divine abilities to himself and no real Muslim would .
And what angers you so much if Allah say he is the best of creatures ? Does it irritate you so much ? Apparently , it does , and so you slander that it is worship of man . And on the same step , I can say the same about worshiping a human . Of course you claim he was half human half God , still , why would I worship someone imperfect who has human needs and weaknesses and dies ? We deny any negative charecteristics allegated to Allah , it doesn't seem so with you .
So read about prophet Muhammad peace upon him to learn why he's the best of creatures instead of just hating him for your ignorance .
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Behold the Lord our God is one and we worship Him as one God with no partners
Since when is 1+1+1 equal to 1 ? And if the holy ghost is Jibreel , how come you have the nerve say you don't worship angels with a straight face ?
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we don't have to say a Christian shahada; we don't have to mention any messengers with the one and only God like in the second part of the shahada. We will not commit that sin or shirk as you would call it.
Bring me one , I say ONE sign or narration claims divine attributes to the prophet peace upon him or anyone else other than the almighty . For the gazillion time , Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and messenger of Allah , of you want to stick to your delusions that this is idolatry , stick to them while being silent .
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Islam doesn't have anything to offer Christianity; in fact, it appears to have imperfectly borrow from Christianity such truths as monotheism, heaven and hell, the virgin birth of Jesus and many other concepts that were written in the Bible first.
Back to the stinking habit of red herring I see . Fine , two can play this game . Ever heard of Krishna ? He's an exact copy of what you claim Christ is . Born of a virgin , walked on water , is the son of God , and surprise surprise , along with almost 15 other individuals , was crucified to atone for the sin of mankind . According to your flawed logic , since Christianity came after all of those , it's false by default .
Islam states that Christ was a prophet of Allah sent with a message to his people . Those people altered the message and corrupted it when they were entrusted with them . That's why there are truths in the current Bible unaltered , yet . So instead of the meaningless accusations of "Muhammad - peace upon him - took what's in the books of Jews , Christians , Hindus , Buddhists , and many other" , argue which religion is true . It's really ridiculous when I hear that slander as if he had a magical library in his 5X4 meters house that no human ever noticed .
Note : I'm not sure about the size of the house , just said it to mean it's small .
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With all due respect, what you say and what I observe do not appear to line up.
With all due disrespect to your method of arguing , what you think doesn't matter .
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Impossible? Not for the spiritual man. He judges all things, yet he is not judged of any man. True Biblical Christians do not ask the pope for their spiritual direction. We don't depend on man at all. If anything we test the pope, priests and pastors to see if what they share lines up with Scripture. We test the spirit of what we hear from our leaders. Besides, the pope is Catholic. I feel true Catholicism more lines up with Islam than it does with true Biblical Christianity.
You seriously need therapy . You're literally ill . You CAN'T stop spamming your slanders in every single post you make . That's a disease , and you need treatment .
Still , I'll remember to show you this quote of yours the next time you make the slander of "Muslims differ among themselves , so Islam is wrong" . And believe me , you will make it .
Back to track , if you read what I wrote properly - you didn't - you'd notice that I said it is NOT impossible . Visit a doctor for your eyes too .
As for your farce in the undelined , you have until one of us dies to bring one evidence from Islam that a religious man can judge from outside Quran or Sunnah . Each and every single individual can say right or wrong things about religion except the prophet himself . That's why we return to the message itself .
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Humans cannot tell truth from error when they are caught in the bowels of deep religious deception.
A pitiful excuse . I can say you're in deep deception by default and thus you're wrong . End of the story . We have minds to tell the difference between truth and falsehood . And when someone refuses truth , it is either they are ignorant of what it really is , or are following their desires . So bring forth your proof if your are truthful .
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Humans can act like animals, but they are never below them.
Disbelievers are in hellfire on the judgement day and animals return to sand , of course that's below animals .
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Angels are created with free will just as we are,
YOUR beleif .
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LOL, nice try, but there is a big difference between bowing out of custom and prostration before an entity! I really appears you are just making excuses to justify discrepancies.
Go to the top of this reply and ponder how wrong you are .
On what basis exactly are you so sure about your definition ? Here's a link :
islamqa.info/en/8492
And I quote :
Well, that's interesting. I would never have thought to "prostrate" to another in greeting. This from the rest of the link you provided.. What does it mean permissible according to the law of Allah .. At that time.. Am I to take from this excerpt that prophet Mohammed decided that prostration was for Allah alone at a later date? Did Allah change his mind about whom should be prostrating to whom? I'm not sure what to take from that.
*** The prostration of Yoosuf’s parents and brothers was also a prostration of greeting and honouring, which was permissible according to the law (of Allaah) at that time. But according to the sharee’ah brought by the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), it is not permissible to prostrate to anyone at all except Allaah. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If I were to have commanded anyone to prostrate to anyone else, I would have commanded women to prostrate to their husbands.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade Mu’aadh to prostrate to him when he (Mu’aadh) said that the People of the Book prostrated to the great ones among them, and he mentioned the hadeeth quoted above. The prohibition in this sharee’ah against prostrating to anyone at all except Allaah is an aspect of its perfection in achieving true Tawheed. It is the perfect sharee’ah whose perfection is manifested in all its rulings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):***
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According to your Bible or other religions ? Don't forget that we don't believe they are the original messages revealed by Allah . I thought we went over this a month ago .
Doesn't really matter what you believe. We know the Bible as it stands is what it has always been and you have absolutely no proof otherwise.
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Incorrect . Jins are like humans in that they have a free will . And there's a Surah named after them :
14 And among us are Muslims [in submission to Allah ], and among us are the unjust. And whoever has become Muslim - those have sought out the right course. 15 But as for the unjust, they will be, for Hell, firewood.'
And the disbelievers of Jins are called devils . Keep in mind that even among humans there are devils and that's because this is a name given to evil doers . Still , generally , when we say "THE devil" it is Iblees .
I'm not at all sure what a jinn is or why they exist. Am I to assume they are a different creation entirely from humans and angels? What purpose do they serve?
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DON'T , get into baseless hypothesis . And if I remember correctly , I did inform you that the devils are not "THE" cause of sinning . People themselves differ . There are those who obey and those who disobey .
76:3 Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful.
Well.. I will leave you to explain what exactly a jinn is and what purpose it or they serve. Maybe that's also another topic for another thread.
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Again , animals act on instincts and have no minds . A person who has one and YET chooses falsehood is worse . That's why Quran says :
7:179 And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.
That's frankly ridiculous.. An animal has a capacity for learning behaviours... Some are very adept at it. To say they have no mind for thought process makes no sense. A level of intelligence needed to allow for learning behaviours is evidence for some kind of "mind". In regards to choosing falsehood that's a matter of opinion for someone's falsehood is another's truth.
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The insane and mentally ill are a different case . That's why an insane person isn't blamed to not accept Islam and is judged on the final day .
I rather think it is dependant on the persons soul as how they are judged. Not weather they are willing or able to accept or not prophet Mohammed as the last prophet.
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They don't have a soul , but they have a spirit ?!
And the problem is ? There are two reasons to kill an animal : either to benefit from it , or to fend harm . Slaughtering an animal to eat it is included in the first one . And even so , Islam sets strict rules to slaughter an animal in teh most merciful way . One can't sharpen the knife in front of it , slaughter it in front of another , and the one doing it must be "professional" to do it in one swift hit .
And no offense but , what does all of that you tell about your doctrine have to do with the current subject ? Egypt , cats , vegetarians ?
God in the Bible gives a criteria in regards to animals, as to what animals that were acceptable for sacrifice etc. I mentioned vegetarians because mankind was first created vegetarian.. According to the Bible.. Maybe you do not have that level of information available to you in the Quran. God decided when mankind could use animals for food.. In the Noahic covenant, which as you also don't have much info in the Quran either about covenants then I don't expect you would know this. Cats .. I mentioned in passing as they were never favoured very highly due to their link to the pagan deities of Egypt at that time. We won't go into the whys and wherefore a of animal slaughter methods. I don't see the point in that, weather an animal is stunned or not before bleeding out is a matter for animal welfare issues.
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Since when is 1+1+1 equal to 1 ? And if the holy ghost is Jibreel , how come you have the nerve say you don't worship angels with a straight face ?
Only muslims believe Jibreel is the Holy Ghost. We know it is not possible for an angel no matter how lofty his rank in heaven .. To be the Holy Ghost.. Or rather Holy Spirit. Main reason being angels are created beings and the Holy Spirit is eternal and uncreated. Also you should be aware that to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is an unpardonable sin. Just thought I would mention that..so no... We DO NOT worship angels.
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Islam states that Christ was a prophet of Allah sent with a message to his people . Those people altered the message and corrupted it when they were entrusted with them . That's why there are truths in the current Bible unaltered , yet . So instead of the meaningless accusations of "Muhammad - peace upon him - took what's in the books of Jews , Christians , Hindus , Buddhists , and many other" , argue which religion is true . It's really ridiculous when I hear that slander as if he had a magical library in his 5X4 meters house that no human ever noticed .
Note : I'm not sure about the size of the house , just said it to mean it's small .
Islam states a lot of things about Christianity that actually have no basis at all in Christianity... Just someone's misconception about it. Please desist with this nonsense about the Bible being altered.. Or bring on your proof of what you claim.. And if you are honest and read those suras that muslims fondly quote in support of this idea in truth you will know that they do not claim the Torah or the Gospel was changed. In fact I don't think the Gospel is mentioned at all.
The mere idea that Prophet Mohammed may have needed access to a library to glean information about Judaism or Christianity is ludicrous and I can only think you are meaning it in some kind of tongue in cheek manner. You know for sure that the Torah and the Gospel were in wide circulation in the sixth century along with a whole host of gnostic works and folk tales. You think it likely that prophet Mohammed never heard any of these!!! Was he not well travelled with his wife's Khadja's business? The wife whose Nestorian Christian cousin knew and spoke with prophet Mohammed. If there is the slightest possibility that Prophet Mohammed could have heard of the previous scriptures by any of these means then you cannot say with your hand on your heart with all certainty that he was not unduly influenced by them.
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The rest of your post does not warrant a response as it is no more than personal vitriol against Burninglight. Which I would have thought you would have been above.. It's a shame that we can't agree to disagree without recourse to unpleasantness.
Again , animals act on instincts and have no minds . A person who has one and YET chooses falsehood is worse .
Animals have minds and are accountable to God and man.
And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man. Gen. 9:5
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Spare us the emotional talk . It's ironic how you've been the one asking away and making claims about Islam and still , you seem to be the most insecure . I told you that the first pillar of Islam includes believing Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and a messenger of Allah . He doesn't claim divine abilities to himself and no real Muslim would .
I never said your prophet made divine claims! It seems you are wrapped in emotion friend.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
And what angers you so much if Allah say he is the best of creatures ? Does it irritate you so much ? Apparently , it does , and so you slander that it is worship of man . And on the same step , I can say the same about worshiping a human . Of course you claim he was half human half God , still , why would I worship someone imperfect who has human needs and weaknesses and dies ? We deny any negative charecteristics allegated to Allah , it doesn't seem so with you .
what makes you think I am angered? I never claimed Jesus was half human and half God. This is another Islamic misconception or just your misconception. Go back and read what I said about Jesus.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
So read about prophet Muhammad peace upon him to learn why he's the best of creatures instead of just hating him for your ignorance .
There is no such thing as the best creature.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Since when is 1+1+1 equal to 1 ? And if the holy ghost is Jibreel , how come you have the nerve say you don't worship angels with a straight face ?
God cannot be understood using His creation in the form number sequence. We can only understand what god reveals to us by faith.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Bring me one , I say ONE sign or narration claims divine attributes to the prophet peace upon him or anyone else other than the almighty . For the gazillion time , Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and messenger of Allah , of you want to stick to your delusions that this is idolatry , stick to them while being silent .
You are repeating yourself. I never said your prophet made those claims. Go back and reread carefully and cool down.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Back to the stinking habit of red herring I see . Fine , two can play this game . Ever heard of Krishna ? He's an exact copy of what you claim Christ is . Born of a virgin , walked on water , is the son of God , and surprise surprise , along with almost 15 other individuals , was crucified to atone for the sin of mankind . According to your flawed logic , since Christianity came after all of those , it's false by default .
This is a joke.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Islam states that Christ was a prophet of Allah sent with a message to his people . Those people altered the message and corrupted it when they were entrusted with them . That's why there are truths in the current Bible unaltered , yet . So instead of the meaningless accusations of "Muhammad - peace upon him - took what's in the books of Jews , Christians , Hindus , Buddhists , and many other" , argue which religion is true . It's really ridiculous when I hear that slander as if he had a magical library in his 5X4 meters house that no human ever noticed .
Christianity states that God sent Jesus as the Message not with a message.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
With all due disrespect to your method of arguing , what you think doesn't matter .
Every thing matters we aren't talking by accident; it is a divine appointment
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
You seriously need therapy . You're literally ill . You CAN'T stop spamming your slanders in every single post you make . That's a disease , and you need treatment .
Still , I'll remember to show you this quote of yours the next time you make the slander of "Muslims differ among themselves , so Islam is wrong" . And believe me , you will make it .
Back to track , if you read what I wrote properly - you didn't - you'd notice that I said it is NOT impossible . Visit a doctor for your eyes too .
I am not meaning to insult. I just all it the way I truthfully see it. Unlike you, I don't attack the OP
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
A pitiful excuse . I can say you're in deep deception by default and thus you're wrong . End of the story . We have minds to tell the difference between truth and falsehood . And when someone refuses truth , it is either they are ignorant of what it really is , or are following their desires . So bring forth your proof if your are truthful .
I have a mind to tell truth too.
Disbelievers are in hellfire on the judgement day and animals return to sand , of course that's below animals .
Go to the top of this reply and ponder how wrong you are .
.[/QUOTE]I have a mind to tell truth too. Humans and animals both go into the sand after death. From dust we were made and to dust we return. Besides we are referring to living humans and animals not what happens after death. Humans are never below in value.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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