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The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.









But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah ?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah . We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].









O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.



We believe in the words of Christ from the Holy Quran, we do not recognize the Bible,

The son of God was never a messenger; He was, is and will be the message. He is the truth not someone who shows truth; He is the way not someone who show the way; He is the life period. he warns that many false prophet will come saying Jesus is Christ and deceiver many. Joseph Smith tried to say Jesus is Satan's brother and million follow this lie. Sung Young Moon taught that people are deceived for believing Jesus is Christ. Why would I want to go against Jesus' word to follow heresy?

Muhammad's Quran came several hundreds of years after the Bible which records the testimony of the disciples closer to the time it happened. Why would I want to believe a contradicting account that came hundreds of years later?

Christians know that God is one and Jesus is His word. This is nothing new. The Jews and Christians were saying this before Muhammad was born. There is no evidence that Allah understood the three he is telling Christians not to say. The only thing one can infer from the Quran is that Allah was saying say not three about the son, mother and father, but there is not such trinity and never was that Christians believe in. So who was Allah referring to? Allah asks Jesus: "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me" I count three gods here: son, mother and Allah. Allah said, "They do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" Who believed Allah was the third of three? There are no Christians I know of that do such things not even Catholics. Is this a discrepancy in the Quran? Is the Quran just a reaction against its own misconceptions of Christianity that Muslims follow blindly?

We believe in the words of Christ from the Holy Quran, we do not recognize the Bible,[/QUOTE]I know what you believe, but why should I feel the way you do when the Quran tells me to stand on the revelation I received from the Scripture that came before? It states we Christians can do no other! If the Scripture Allah sent before are corrupted, then, so is the Quran, because Allah states his word is unchangeable and unalterable. If Allah couldn't or wouldn't protect his word that came before, why should I believe He will do it now? This god would be nothing but a deceiver to me. doesn't Allah state he is the best of deceivers? Is man's power to corrupt greater than God's power to preserve his word? Why did Uthman burn your original Qurans. Who gave him the divine mandate to recompile the Quran and put it to writing when Quran means recite not write. Why did Uthman use the help of text instead of memory to recompile it? There is a preponderance of evidence that this is all contrived, IMHO. I believe Jesus word in the Bible is true and I see no reason why you shouldn't either.

Peace be unto you, and may we all come to the knowledge of truth.

PS, BTW, Why don't you let me post directly so I can edit mistakes? Why are my hands being tied on this forum? What are you afraid of?

How are these the words of Christ? Theses are words about Christ... Not words of Christ.

You take it for granted that Jesus peac upon him did say he is the son of God - or did he say he's God , anyway - and we believe in Quran which tells us he was a prophet . We also believe in Quran which says that the peopl eof the book corrupted their scriptures after they were intrusted to them . Thus , you shouldn't ask why we don't belive in something that Jesus said because we DON'T believe he said it .

We take nothing for granted where Jesus is concerned. We take the Bible as the definitive word on Jesus because it came first and the accounts...(whatever you think to the contrary) are from contemporaries of Jesus. If you want me to believe that one person 600 years later knows better.. Then it is up to you to prove it. The Quran does not say the Bible is corrupted, at best it lays the blame for "some" Jews changing "some" words. This is not proof that the original scriptures were changed.. But only that some Jews interpreted some scripture for their own ends. You have no proof of this claim you make of widescale corruption.. I have asked on numerous occasions to see this proof and no one has been able to produce anything. They just run away!!!

I am of the opinion that Isa in the Quran is not Jesus at all.. But another prophet entirely.. There is nothing of Jesus, the man or His teachings in the Quran. What you attribute to Isa/Jesus is from Gnostics and fables. You should ask why that is?

Peace.

عجباً !

That - don't mean to be offensive - is a weak excuse . Just because something came before the other , it doesn't mean it's right . If so , then those former hypothesis about emryology - for instance - about how the human is fully developed in the oval are right and what we discovered now is wrong ! You seem to have serious misconceptions about Islam and what it says about the Christ peace upon him . We DON'T believe that the current Bible is the true one Allah revealed to his prophet and people ages ago (Although we do believe there is still truth in it that were not corrupted , yet) .

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3:71 O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?

3:187 And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.

2:79 So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.


Bukhari , Book of witnesses , Chapter: Al-Mushrikun should not be asked to give witness :
Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."

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And if you could read Arabic , you'd find out that the forum is full of those articles ! Also , when I believe through evidence that Quran is the word of Allah which was not altered , I believe in whatever it says afterword because it can't be wrong or contradicting . And no , if you bring a number of slanders they will eithr be outright lies or misconceptions .

Seriously , do you have issues with communication ? For the 49064059 time , we DON'T believe what your Bible says . You want to force us to take it for given that it is the true word of Allah not altered in any way . And when we say it's not , it goes through an ear and out of the other !

I'm not offended, you are entitled to your opinion as I am to disagree with it. :) just as you are entitled to believe the current Bible is not the same in content as the Bible that was available in Mohammed's day. Even though you cannot offer conclusive proof of such claims. Remember your proof has to be to the standard of those who hold to the Bibles truth.. Not what passes as proof for reassurance of your fellow muslims.... No offence. I was told there was real proof to be seen.. But as yet no one has seen fit to produce it.. It's not enough to say on the basis of a few ambiguous suras from the Quran that this corruption on such a massive scale ever happened. My questions were... (In case you're the one with the answers) who corrupted the scriptures? When did this happen? And why it was thought necessary to corrupt them at all?

None of the Suras above are an indictment on all, but "some". In fact.. the context seems to be dealing with those who live near Mohammad and who he came into contact with. So, their misinterpretation or reinterpretation of the scriptures caused them to create lies and make deceit for a price.. Maybe for their own agenda. This couldn't happen if they didn't have the uncorrupted text by which to misinterpret or reinterpret in the first place.. There is nothing to suppose that the original uncorrupted text is still in the hands of the Jews who valued and protected it as the word of God. Seeing as the words of God cannot be changed why would you make the charge against God that God in fact cannot protect His word and would allow it to be changed by His creation? If you cannot trust that God could keep His word safe in the Bible then how can you trust God will keep His word for the Quran. IMHO this does not support a charge of whole scale corruption. If Mohammed judged by the Torah to the Jews of his time.. Why would he have done this if he knew the Torah was corrupted. Because if one believes that just one small part is corrupted... And without definitive proof what exactly was changed then there is no option other than to discard the whole work. Without proof you cannot know what was changed by whom and for why.

I don't believe your prophet Mohammed ever did believe in the wide scale biblical corruption that muslims today make such a big deal about. I can see why you have to attempt to prove the Bible to be in error.. But can't say I approve of such underhanded efforts. Luckily my approval counts for naught.. And I'm happy in the knowledge that all judgement comes from on high and at that time we all answer for our actions.
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https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t199326.html

Well.. You assume I can't read Arabic ;) however, such articles are hardly proof except as validation for yourselves. There are errors and contradictions in the Quran if it claims to follow from the previous scriptures..BUT it does not bother me any.. It is your book which you hold in the same esteem as I do the Bible. I have no wish to cast aspersions upon it. My aim is simply to dispel myths, misconceptions and misunderstanding that exist about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity. When I see the Gospel of Jesus badly dealt with it's beholden on myself to attempt to set the record straight. It does not impact upon my person any weather you choose to see my point of view or ignore it. :)

No, go I have no issues with communication... Do you? Just for your information.. The Bible is not the true word of Allah it is the inspired word of YHWH.. God of the Bible and all the Prophets... And Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

May God bless and guide you.

The Scriptures from the Quran you gave don't say the Bible is corrupted; in fact, it doesn't mention the Torah, Psalms or the gospel being corrupted. There are people who write corrupted translations of the Bible still today, but we can pick out who they are and what they changed. You are the one who takes for granted that the Bible has wholesale corruption, and use it as a poor excuse to dismiss what Jesus said in the Bible. That is lame and dishonest of Muslim contemporaries of teday. Muhammad never said the Bible was corrupted; so if it is, it would have had to have happened after his death. The Quran could be speaking of Uthman corrupting the Quran after he destroyed the original Qurans. You are taking for granted its the Bible. You are entitled to your inference, but I am to mine, and I think Uthman distorted Muhammad's Quran just like Joseph Smith came after Muhammad to attempt destruction of true Christianity by giving us something that appears to be from God in his Book of Mormon. We Christians won't fall for the deception that came after the Scripture that came before like we believe you have!

Peace

Then why are trying to be at the end of your post here. When you say someone has issues with their communication, you don't come across as not wanting to be offensive. I would say it has a condescending rude tone to it that doesn't make you appear to be truthful.

Oh people of the Quran, why do you confuse truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you have been told it many times. You know Jesus is the truth!!!
This is not clear. Which people of the Scripture who exchanged what for a price? Who has written with their own hands and what did they write? This is not explicitly talking about anything.
This is not the Quran you quote here. What book has been distorted, how and why? How did they make money doing this? It just sounds like someone making this up so they could get you to turn from truth to error. Did you think of that?

You cannot prove the Quran hadn't been altered nor can you prove its perfectly preservation since when Uthman burned all your originals after Muhammad's death and recompiled them acting as Allah's editor and he was no prophet who relied on the help of text Hafsah's copy and then her copy was destroyed. It all sounds fishy to me.

You are trying to elevate yourself here by making others look small, and that is not the way to do it. It is not what our Bible says it is what Allah says he sent down that you deny. It is basically the torah and the gospel which no Muslim can prove was corrupted or that the Quran or Muhammad is referring to variances in the Bible or that Christians don't know about and are trying to do something about it. At least we know how to find out about changes made in the Bible, because our evidence wasn't burned like yours was. It seems like you have been pawned again.
Peace
BTW, why can I post directly ? Can you? If yes, why the unfair advantaged for you?
Peace be upon you

lol... Yes you are being rude.. :) but I'm not offended by your rudeness I have come to accept rudeness is sometimes a consequence of dialogue on this forum. Its of no matter.. If you do not wish to talk then the solution lies in your own hands... Don't enter into dialogue.

In my time here I've learnt quite a bit and have had some interesting dialogue with some really nice knowledgable, polite muslims.. I usually find if one has to resort to childish insults then there's nothing to be gained by either party. I wish you well.

May God bless you and guide you. Peace.

I know more about Islam than most Muslims. Regarding delayed posting, you said it was that way with you the first few posts, but I have done quite a bit more than a few posts. Is that called Muslim fairness?

You are saying I am deluded, because you are convinced you have the truth, but I am equally convinced that Jesus is the truth; He is the only truth. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.

You don't believe what Jesus said that is recorded in the Bible. You use the ridiculous excuse that the Bible is corrupted not seeming to realize or not wanting to that the Scripture that came before are from the God you claim as your God. God preserves all His words and messages. Only Muslims are not willing to believe it. Even Allah said his word is unalterable. The Bible says God word is established forever in heaven so anything that contradicts what came before should be held suspect, but Muslims put the cart before the horse; we don't do that, and you say we Christians are deluded. If the message from the Scripture that came before is corrupted than so is the Quran for saying God word is unalterable. Make up you mind. Is man's power to corrupt greater than god's power to preserve His word. Do you even know who is God's Word?

It is the god of Islam that calls himself the best of deceiver in the Arabic, but the English translation dishonestly translates him as best of planners. The fact is Allah does and did best what the unbelievers were doing according to the Quran. What were they doing? They were lying, cheating, scheming, plotting and deceiving; well Allah does those things best if you can understand context. Jesus calls Satan the father of lies; so, go figure, and at least try to understand why we true Christians might see things the way we do.
Peace be unto you

Judge Christianity by Christians?

Delayed deployment is not a hoax, is a system of law and forum