Burninglight, this is the rule in this forum for everyone whether he is a muslim or a christian. This rule applies for every member and it even applied for me when I was a new member few years ago. The posts of every new member remain pending till they are reviewed and accepted by moderators but after several posts the admins (red colour not blue like me) allow posts from this members to appear directly. I hope you understand this.
Also, I am currently very busy on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. The rest of the week I have more time. I hope this is convinent to you.
I am not sure about this and I will ask the admins but I think that when your posts are allowed to appear directly you will have short time after posting in which you will be allowed to edit your post.

Well, I'll tell you the reasons briefly and we can discuss them in details afterwards.

Regarding Christianity :
1- The beliefs of christians are built on mere conclusions, they were not taught by Christ and not even mentioned frankly in their books.
Your books do not teach trinity , trinity is just your understanding to the relation between God, the Christ and Holy spirit. Other groups of christians like Arians and Ebonites in the past and Jehova's witnesses currently believe in the same books you believe in but they don't believe in trinity because they understand them in different way.
Christ didn't say that he is God, he used to pray to God, he refused to be called good because God only is good, he stated that he doesn't know when the hour is. How can I believe that does not when is the hour is God? Do you think this is logic ? How could I believe that he is God while he himself used to say that the Father is his God?

2- I can't trust the Bible to be the book that is inspired from God without any falsification. The Bible says things about God that I can't believe. I can't believe a story saying that God appeared in the form of man and had a fight with Jacob Pbuh and was not able to defeat him. There are several contradictions and errors in the Bible. The writers of the different manuscripts of the Bible have been adding and omitting words and phrases and Christians admit this. How can I believe that a message that was sent from Luke to Theophilus is the word of God? It's just a message according to its writer.

Regarding Islam :

1- Its faith is simple and so clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran. Its the same faith in which Moses Pbuh and all the prophets of the old testament believed in.

2- All the things that some people attack in Islam are in the Bible like Jihad and polygamy .... etc

3- The holy Quran and the Sunnah contain some miracles and prophecies that turned out to be true.

4- The Bible clearly prophecizes prophet Muhammad Pbuh.


The Quran speaks about the true Torah and the true Gospel that were inspired to Moses Pbuh and Jesus Pbuh, but the Bible that you have today according to our belief is partially true and partially falsified and Christians admit this.

I think that it's better if you speak with only one person in the forum in one page. I think this may be better and it will make the discussion much more useful.

I never said the Bible preaches trinity or that Jesus is God the father. Trinity is not taught so how can I teach on it?, but the concept is there such as God being the father and Jesus being His word who comes from God (Not created) He is eternal and God calls Jesus His son in whom He is well pleased. We know God is Spirit and He must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. He is therefore the Holy Spirit of truth who lives in us, and He is the seal of salvation or the earnest that we'll be joint heirs with Christ and not slaves of God but true children of God, if we have been washed in the blood of the Lamb of God like the children of Israel were spared by the blood of the lamb. We too have been covered by the Lamb's blood from God who takes away our sin, but this is not so for the unbelievers just like in the day of Moses.

It is your choice not to trust it. But how can I trust the Quran when Allah said his word is unalterable and unchangeable? The torah and gospel is his word right? The Bible wasn't written like the Quran. It is mostly written by men who bear witness to what they saw and experienced. If 10 people witness an accident and report it, not all the stories will line up exactly, because they may have seen it from different angles and they may have understood it differently than each other. This doesn't mean it didn't happen. It is a strength and not a doubt. If all their stories lined up perfectly, I would think this was couched.

We can say the same regarding Christianity if we exclude Muhammad.
I attack no such things about Islam. What you say here is true and I agree, but we don't see Christians practicing Jihad and polygamy today as part of their religion; IOW, even though it happened, God is not now commanding us to live like that. I don't have a problem with having more that one wife if your in a country that allows it, and your wife agrees to it, lol, good luck to you on that. This also raises questions such as why did Muhammad have more wives than his revelation allowed, and from what I understand, Muhammad proves that plurality in marriage makes it impossible to treat all wives equally. Why the double standard. Please explain.

All the prophecies in the Bible turn out to be true, and some are yet to be fulfilled.

It is only clear to some Muslims! If it were clear to me, I'd be a Muslim.

What Christians? Bart Erhman is not a Christian. The true torah and gospel was given to Muhammad and Allah didn't say it had a problem; in fact, Muhammad never said it had such a problem; so, if there were, the problem would've had to happen some time after Muhammad's death, but we can prove nothing as changed since then. The burden of proof is on you to show who changed the Bible when and where, give the motive and so on. If the Bible is so messed up, why did Muhammad borrow from it particularly the NT Bible such stories as the virgin birth of Jesus. It cannot be found in any other books, and yet Islam rejects the reason for Jesus' virgin birth. Please explain that.

I can discuss with you, but with others as well, because you are so busy that your responses come so few and far between.

Peace to you brother of humanity

I really respect these words :
Here there is a misunderestanding.
The holy Quran states that the words of God are unaltered and unchangeable.
The words of God here means his promises and his judgement must be fulfilled, no one can change them.
Please, read this article :
https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/re..._do_not_change
You will find the answer to what you are saying in details.
See what Imam Al-Qurtubi, a muslim scholar, said in his tafseer (explanation) to the Quran:
Al Ramaani narrated on the authority of Qataadah who said: There is no change in the judgment of God. Even if one were to change and substitute the words just as the people of the book did with the Torah and Gospel, God doesn't consider this.(Abu 'Abdullah Al-Qurtubi, Tasfir al Jami' li-ahkam al-Qur'an, Commentary on Surah 6:115)

Both the holy Quran and the Bible state that the Bible was fabricated
The holy Quran says :
"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' to traffic with it for a miserable price!Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.” (The Noble Qur'an, 2:77-79)

So the Quran says that the jews and christians ( some of them of course) just write the book with their own hands and then claim it's from God, and the Quran states that they will be punished for this

The Bible says :
International Standard Version 2 Peter 3:16
He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.

The people are distorting the scriptures

Jeremiah 23:36 BBEBible in Basic English
And you will no longer put people in mind of the word of weight of the Lord: for every man's word will be a weight on himself; for the words of the living God, of the Lord of armies, our God, have been twisted by you
Again the words of God are just twisted by the jews

Let's see examples of twisting the words of God or falsification of the Bible

1- The old testament according to the Catholic and the orthdox churches consists of 46 books while according to the Protestant church it consists of 39 books.
Are the 7 debatable books the word of God or the word of man ?
If they are God's word, the Protestants have falsified the scripture by omitting 7 chapters, and if they are not the word of God then the Catholics and the Orthodox have falsified the scripture by adding 7 chapters. How do you explain this?

2- 1 John 5:7

Let's compare the different translations of the Bible

https://biblehub.com/1_john/5-7.htm

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses--

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony-- the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

Some translations contain the phrase : ( the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one ) , others do not.
This is not a difference in translation, it's a difference in a phrase, and not any phrase, the only phrase which frankly explains the faith of trinity in the Bible
Let's see what christian commentaries say about this phrase

Pulpit Commentary ( on the same link)

Verse 7. - For those who bear witness are three, and thus constitute full legal testimony (Deuteronomy 17:6; Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1). It will be assumed here, without discussion, that the remainder of this verse and the first clause of verse 8 are spurious. Words which are not contained in a single Greek uncial manuscript, nor in a single Greek cursive earlier than the fourteenth century (the two which contain the passage being evidently translated from the Vulgate), nor are quoted by a single Greek Father during the whole of the Trinitarian controversy, nor are found in any authority until late in the fifth century, cannot be genuine.

So according to christian scholars, some of the parts of the Bible are spurious. The only part that frankly explains Trinity is spurious.

Let's go to the Netbible
https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+John+5:20

²⁰ tc Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα (to pneuma kai to {udwr kai to |aima), the Textus Receptus(TR) reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5:8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence – both external and internal – is decidedly against its authenticity.

So according to christian scholars, some of the parts of the Bible are not authentic.

3- Mark 16: 9-16

Let's see what the netbible says
https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Mark+16:9

tc The Gospel of Mark ends at this point in some witnesses (א B 304 sy^s sa^ms arm^mss Eus Eus^mssHier^mss), including two of the most respected mss (א B). The following shorter ending is found in some mss: “They reported briefly to those around Peter all that they had been commanded. After these things Jesus himself sent out through them, from the east to the west, the holy and imperishable preaching of eternal salvation. Amen.” This shorter ending is usually included with the longer ending (L Ψ 083 099 0112 579al); k, however, ends at this point. Most mss include the longer ending (vv. 9-20) immediately after v. 8 (A C D W [which has a different shorter ending between vv. 14 and 15] Θ Ë¹³ 33 2427 Ï lat sy^c,p,h bo); however, Jerome and Eusebius knew of almost no Greek mss that had this ending. Several mss have marginal comments noting that earlier Greek mss lacked the verses, while others mark the text with asterisks or obeli (symbols that scribes used to indicate that the portion of text being copied was spurious). Internal evidence strongly suggests the secondary nature of both the short and the long endings. Their vocabulary and style are decidedly non-Markan (for further details, see TCGNT 102-6). All of this evidence strongly suggests that as time went on scribes added the longer ending, either for the richness of its material or because of the abruptness of the ending at v. 8. (Indeed, the strange variety of dissimilar endings attests to the probability that early copyists had a copy of Mark that ended at v. 8, and they filled out the text with what seemed to be an appropriate conclusion. All of the witnesses for alternative endings to vv. 9-20 thus indirectly confirm the Gospel as ending at v. 8.) Because of such problems regarding the authenticity of these alternative endings, 16:8 is usually regarded as the last verse of the Gospel of Mark.

So you have half a chapter at the end of Mark's gospel which is considered by christian scholars to be spurious and non-authentic.

Compare the opening of Luke's gospel to the openings of some of the suras (chapters) of the Quran

This is the beginning of Luke's gospel

1 Many people have already applied themselves to the task of compiling an account of the events that have been fulfilled among us.2 They used what the original eyewitnesses and servants of the word handed down to us.3 Now, after having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, I have also decided to write a carefully ordered account for you, most honorable Theophilus.4 I want you to have confidence in the soundness of the instruction you have received.

Do you think that St. Luke himself knew that he was inspired by God to write God's word? or he was just writing a letter to a person named Theophilus and this letter was considered afterwards by the church to be God's word ?

Compare this to the holy Quran

Let's read the opening of surat aljathiya in the Quran (Youssef Ali translation):Ha-Mim.
The revelation of the book from Allah the Exalted in Power, Full of wisdom. (45:1-2)

Which of these openings do you think is an opening of a chapter of a book revealed from God?
Do you see the difference?

The Bible wasn't written like the Quran. It is mostly written by men who bear witness to what they saw and experienced. If 10 people witness an accident and report it, not all the stories will line up exactly, because they may have seen it from different angles and they may have understood it differently than each other. This doesn't mean it didn't happen. It is a strength and not a doubt. If all their stories lined up perfectly, I would think this was couched.

I disagree with you here.
The word of God must be error free so that we can believe that it's from God.
If the Bible is just people reporting what they witnessed and these witnesses are contradictory, I won't be able to believe it's the word of God.
I agree with you that if people are reporting the same incident, they will report it in different ways. This means that the event they reported has happened, but it also means that there may be some errors in the details of what they are witnessing and the word of God must be error free.

Let's see some of the contradictions in the Bible.

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21
SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;

Another contradiction


2 Kings 24 verse 8 (KJV) says: "Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months."
2 Chronicles 36 verse 9 (KJV) says: "Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD."

Christians admit the presence of such errors

Pg 46 of "So the Bible is full of Contradictions? 101 Seeming Contradictions with Possible solutions" author Carl G. Johnson says that:
"These and others could be given to show that, in spite of the carefulness of the scribes, copyists' errors were not in the autographs [original manuscripts] but in the copies, and none of them affects the doctrinal contents of the Bible. Keil comments: "In the course of repeated copying many small errors crept into the text... The copyists have committed these errors by seeing or hearing wrongly, by faithlessness of memory, and by other misunderstandings; yet not arbitrarily or intentionally. And by none of them have the essential contents of scripture been in danger' (Introduction to Old Testament, II, pp. 294-295)


Your scholars are just admitting the presence of errors in the Bible. It's not an error free book, how can I believe that it is from A to Z the word of God?
The christian scholars are just claiming that the errors of the scripts don't affect the doctorinal contents of the Bible, what about 1John 5:7 which is the only phrase that frankly speaks about trinity?

Wow, I bet you confuse a lot of Christians.

It is true that 1Jn 5:7 is an interpolation, but that doesn't hurt the concept of God's tri-unity or the central message of the gospel. Unlike the recompilation of the Quran by Uthman which involved the burning of the original Qurans, we have the copies of the original information so we can check on omissions/abrogation and interpolation. That is why Christians tell you that verse was an interpolation by an over zealous Scribe. You cannot prove perfect preservation of the Quran, because Uthman burned all after Muhammad's death, and he didn't use memory to recompile them but the help of text from Hafsah's copy then her copy was destroyed. This would bother me. Who gave Uthman the divine mandate to act as Allah's editor or to put to writing the Quran which means recite not write?

As for Revelation 3 it states He is the beginning of the creation of God; it doesn't say he is the beginning of God's creation. You are coming to conclusions making it say what you want to believe, because what that verse means is that Jesus as the word of God who is the beginner of the beginning of creation. IOW, we both believe Jesus is the word of God as you mentioned; therefore, logic and reason alone should tell you that He is uncreated and eternal. He is the Word God used to create all things. You shouldn't mine quote the Bible to make it say what you want my friend. I notice you didn't quote that "All things were made by Him (Jesus) for Him and through Him" or that God calls Jesus "Oh God" Heb 1.

You also didn't quote that God exalts His word above all His name which Muhammad didn't know or care to mention. I have a problem with a prophet who doesn't know the name of God. Allah is not God's name. So what god is being referred to in Islam. Christians see it as a different god and Jesus than the ones in Christianity. As for the trinity, I have a problem with a god who doesn't understand what Christians believed and still believe about God's tri unity; for instance, Allah implies that the trinity consisted of the son, mother and father with him being the third of three by the way he questions Jesus; "Did you say take you and your mother for two gods besides me" I count the three that Allah alludes to as the three we Christians should desist to say. Allah confirms a misconception when he says: they do disbelieve who call Allah the third of three" Forgive me if I am not quoting exactly but you get the idea. What Christians called or call God the father the third of three and who called Mary God? Not even the Catholics who worship Mary considered her god or part of the trinity.

As for David, since Jesus comes from His direct line, the word is referring to Jesus. David means beloved of God and God said of Jesus "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased..." There are different versions of the Bible is true but none of them clash with the central gospel message. Jesus is the Word of God. In the beginning that means the beginning as far back as men is capable of imagining was the word, The word was with God and the word was God. Jn 1. Jesus is that word. That is why He could forgive sin; It is why he could say "Before Abraham was I am" that is why He could say I am the way.. He is saying He is the only way. Even Allah said Jesus is the word "Be" which is a form of "I am" God said to Moses "I am that I am" Jesus said "I am" We must all come to our own conclusion of who Jesus is, but remember Jesus said, "You will die in your sin unless you believe I am He"

Peace be unto you friend

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3abd Arahman مشاهدة المشاركة

Regarding Islam :

1- Its faith is simple and so clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran. Its the same faith in which Moses Pbuh and all the prophets of the old testament believed in.
.

We can say the same regarding Christianity if we exclude Muhammad.

Of course, not.
All the prophets of the old testament believed that there is only one God, the heavenly Father.
None of them believed in the trinity or that God had a son who will come to earth as a man to be crucified so that our sins are forgiven.

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3abd Arahman مشاهدة المشاركة

2- All the things that some people attack in Islam are in the Bible like Jihad and polygamy .... etc
.

I attack no such things about Islam. What you say here is true and I agree, but we don't see Christians practicing Jihad and polygamy today as part of their religion; IOW, even though it happened, God is not now commanding us to live like that. I don't have a problem with having more that one wife if your in a country that allows it, and your wife agrees to it, lol, good luck to you on that. This also raises questions such as why did Muhammad have more wives than his revelation allowed, and from what I understand, Muhammad proves that plurality in marriage makes it impossible to treat all wives equally. Why the double standard. Please explain.

It's good that you agree with me about this.
However, it's not important whether God is ordering you to live like this now or not, the important thing is that God allowed you at a certain period of time to live like this which means that you can't consider it something bad.
Also, it's worth to mention that Jesus Pbuh and the whole new testament didn't forbid polygamy and of course Jesus Pbuh didn't order his disciples to be involved into battles because the number of his followers was few and they were not able to face the romans for hundreds of years after him.
Now why did prophet Muhammad Pbuh marry many wives?
If we have a quick look at the story of each marriage, we will understand.
Starting from the age of 25 till 50, our beloved prophet Muhammad Pbuh lived only with one wife, Khadija bent Khowailid may God be pleased with her.
After her death, the muslims told the prophet to marry. They suggested for him 2 women, Aisha may God be pleased with her, the daughter of Abu Bakr his best friend and Sowda bint Zama may God be pleased with her and she was an old woman from the early muslims and she left Mecca with her husband and emigrated to Alhabasha (Ethiopia) to avoid persecution in Mecca and her husband died there, so after the prophet's wife death and her husband's death some muslims suggested that they marry each other and this is what happened.
After that prophet Muhammad Pbuh married Hafsa the daughter of Omar ibn Alkhattab one of his best companions. After the death of her husband, her father Omar ibn Alkhattab wanted to find for her another husband and he asked some of his friends to marry her but they appologized and prophet Muhammad Pbuh decided to marry her. May be you won't understand this story, but according to the culture of the arabs especially at that time, it's not nice for a woman to stay without a husband taking care of her.
After this prophet Muhammad Pbuh married Om Almasakeen may God be pleased with her, after her husband's death probably in one of the battles.
Then the prophet Pbuh married Om Salama may God be pleased with her. She was one of the early muslims and her husband died in one of the battles leaving her with 4 children. Abu Bakr the best friend of the prophet want to marry her after her husband's death to take care of her and her children and she appologized and then the prophet Pbuh married her.
Then prophet Muhammad Pbuh then married Zeinab bint Gahsh may God be pleased with her who was his cousin. There is a story for this marriage. The propet's wife Khadija brought for him a slave, his name was Zaid ibn Haritha who was a young kid at this time. Then the parents of Zaid came afterwards to take him back from the prophet Pbuh. Prophet Muhammad Pbuh told them that he will make Zaid choose either to stay with him or go back with them. Zaid choosed to stay with the prohet Pbuh and from this day the prophet adopted and called him Zaid ibn (the son of) Muhammad. The quran then considered adoption forbidden and Zaid was again called Zaid ibn Haritha. The prophet Pbuh told his cousin Zainab to marry Zaid, she first refused because he was once a slave but then she decided to obey the prophet Pbuh. After their marriage, they were not happy with each other probably because Zeinab may God be pleased with her didn't like the idea of being married to someone who was a slave. Zaid told the prophet Pbuh that he wants to divorce her and the prophet Pbuh told him to be patient but finally there was no other way and they divorced. The prophet then married Zainab for two reasons, because the arabs considered that a man should not marry the wife of his adopted son and this was to show that adoption in islam is completely forbidden and the other reason in my opinion was because this marriage between Zainab and Zaid may God be pleased with both of them was recommended by the prophet Pbuh.

The prophet Pbuh then married Gowairiyah bint (the doaughter of) Alharith, and this was after there was a battle between the muslims and her tribe, she was the daughter oof the boss of this tribe, she was captured and she asked the Prophet Pbuh to set her free. The prophet Pbuh set her free and married her, the muslims set all the captured women free and they said they are the relatives of the wife of our prophet, and then the tribe became muslims.

Then the prophet Pbuh married Safiyya bint Howayii may God be pleased with her , she was the daughter of the leader of a tribe of the jews, the prophet Pbuh had a battle with this tribe of jews and her father and husband were killed in the battle and she was captured. The prophet Pbuh set her free and married her.

Then he married Om Habiba, who was one of the early muslims who emigrated to Habasha to avoid persecution in Mecca. Her husband died in Habasha and the prophet Pbuh married her afterwards and she then came from Habasha to Madina in Saudi arabia.

Finally the prophet Pbuh married Maymoonah bint Alharith may God be pleased with her and she went to the prophet Pbuh and asked him to marry her and he accepted.

So we can see clearly that all the marriages of the prophet Pbuh were for certain reasons :for example :to support women whose husbands died in battles or to marry the daughters of his enemies to encourage them to follow him and join Islam.

Also it is worth to mention that probably the prophet Pbuh married this number of women before it became forbidden for muslims to marry only 4 women, and when muslims were not allowed to marry only 4 women some of the muslims were married to 10 women and the prophet Pbuh told them to stay with 4 and leave the others but for the prophet Pbuh the Quran stated that his wives are the mothers of muslims and no muslim should marry them after the prophet Pbuh so if the prophet Pbuh left some of his wives will just be left unmarried.

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3abd Arahman مشاهدة المشاركة

3- The holy Quran and the Sunnah contain some miracles and prophecies that turned out to be true..

All the prophecies in the Bible turn out to be true, and some are yet to be fulfilled.

Well even if some of the prophecies of the Bible were true, what's the problem ?
According to my faith, some parts of Bible sre true and some are false, so if some of the prophecies of the Bible are true ,they are from the true parts that were really inspired by God.
But according to you, the Quran is not inspired by God and it is just written by prophet Muhammad Pbuh, so how could the prophecies of the quran and sunnah turn out to be true? What about the scientific miracles of the Quran?
Probably we can talk later about these prophecy and scientific miracles in details.
But for the time being you can watch this video

You can also read the Hadith about the talking shoes here :
https://islamicapologetics1.blogspot....y-prophet.html
Watch this also
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...king-shoe.html

Compare this to the false prophecies in the Bible
Matthew 16
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.
28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

So the bible is prophesizing that some of those who saw the Christ won't die till they witness the second coming of the Christ and it's now 2000 years since the christ was alive on earth and those people died and their sons died and their grandsons died and the Christ didn't return yet.

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3abd Arahman مشاهدة المشاركة

4- The Bible clearly prophecizes prophet Muhammad Pbuh. .

It is only clear to some Muslims! If it were clear to me, I'd be a Muslim.

The prophet pbuh is very clearly mentioned in the Bible especially in Isaiah 42 but we can discuss this later on

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3abd Arahman مشاهدة المشاركة

The Quran speaks about the true Torah and the true Gospel that were inspired to Moses Pbuh and Jesus Pbuh, but the Bible that you have today according to our belief is partially true and partially falsified and Christians admit this.
.

What Christians? Bart Erhman is not a Christian. The true torah and gospel was given to Muhammad and Allah didn't say it had a problem; in fact, Muhammad never said it had such a problem; so, if there were, the problem would've had to happen some time after Muhammad's death, but we can prove nothing as changed since then. The burden of proof is on you to show who changed the Bible when and where, give the motive and so on. If the Bible is so messed up, why did Muhammad borrow from it particularly the NT Bible such stories as the virgin birth of Jesus. It cannot be found in any other books, and yet Islam rejects the reason for Jesus' virgin birth. Please explain that.

I copied from you notes from netbible and other books admitting presence of errors of the scribes in the Bible and admitting that there are non-authentic spurious verses in the Bible.
Also I mentioned verses in the holy Quran stating that the Bible was falsified and I gave you examples of spurious parts of the Bible.
Prophet Muhammad Pbuh didn't borrow from the NT the story of virgin birth. Simply, this is a true story, so Luke knew about it and he wrote it in his message to Theophilus. God told us about the story of virgin birth in the holy Quran too. However, the Quran mentions more details about the story like the story of the Christ speaking just after his birth so you can't say it's just copied from the NT.
Simply the reason of the virgin birth of Jesus Pbuh is as a sign of the power of God and of course this could not be a proof that Jesus is the son of God or God himself.
Adam Pbuh was created without neither a father nor a mother and this is not an evidence that he is son of God or God and the same applies to Jesus Pbuh.

I can discuss with you, but with others as well, because you are so busy that your responses come so few and far between.

Well some of the people who wrote other topics that you are responding to are not available now and it's a bit difficult for us to keep tracing you everywhere to answer you. So, it's better if we concentrate in this discussion and I think you now have a lot to answer to.

Peace to you brother of humanity

Thank you.

Like you said the term trinity is not in the Bible and 1Jn 5:7 is spurious; moreover, I never said the Bible was the word of God; I said Jesus is the word of God. The Bible is a history book that reports the failures of man and God's intervention with men. Some the Bible is God's direct word to people through prophets, but not all of the Bible is. As I mentioned, it is not like the Quran to where very word in it is verbatim words out of God's mouth. If you find one discrepancy the whole of the Quran fails. It is not that way with the Bible. The Bible is just a book it is dead with out the Spirit of God who quickens the word to us, and that is when it becomes the word of God to us; otherwise, it is just a story that shows the faithfulness of God and the judgment of God and His mercy and love.

If I don't share what God is saying right now to you, I am not preaching Christ. Jesus is the only word of God, and we experience Him through the Holy Spirit. So we know from Scripture that God is one and Jesus is His word and we know God's spirit convicts us of error and sin. It is not important to me that someone coined the term trinity because I understand the concept and I understand it is not my job to preach of teach it. The biggest thing about true Biblical Christianity which Muhammad and Allah didn't seem to understand is that it is not a religion as much as it is a relationship with God. It is religion that nailed Jesus to the cross. We true Christians that have a relationship with Jesus know God and we can be filled with His Spirit. Our faith is the substance or what we hope for and the proof or evidence of what we don't see. Without faith it is not possible to please our God. Those that come to him must believe that He is and, He rewards those who seek Him diligently. It relationship not religion. It is God by His spirit who puts in us the will to do according to His good pleasure. It is not by our works that we can please God; it is by our faith that works by love. When we have this kind of faith, good deeds will be visible. If they are not visible, there is no faith. People can do good deeds and not have faith; that means nothing to God, but it is not possible to have faith without good works just as you cannot have smoke without fire. Nothing anyone can say against the Bible can tear a Christian of His faith once He has truly experience Christ to where God's spirit bears witness with our spirit that God is conforming us to the image of Christ. The path of the just is as a shinning light of day it shines more and more until the perfect day like the noon day sun. No one can come to Christ unless God draws him. There are many nominal Christians that convert to Islam who know about Christianity and Jesus, but they don't know Christ personally in relationship. Those the Christians you get that call themselves reverts. They never knew Jesus; they only knew about Him. I know Jesus friend and want to make Him known, but the Jesus I know is not the same Jesus of the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons or the Muslims. What we do with this message I shared determines our eternal destiny so help me God.

Moderators please post the rest of what I said or send it back to me via PM if you will not post it thank you.

Well, I think that most of your last answer is just emotional and that you are just ignoring most of what I'm saying to you and you just didn't answer the points mentioned in my last posts. Anyway, I'll answer you in details very soon.

But I don't see my last post. It seems like it got lost. Please repeat what it is you think I am ignoring. If you bring up 20 issues that is too much focus say on the top two or three that you would like for me to address. BTW, what is wrong with emotion? Do I have to be like I am from the planet Vulcan. I am fully human and emotion is a God given. When we are dealing with spiritual life and death issues there is nothing more important than this in life, how can you avoid emotion if you are a human who loves God and want to make Him known?

To find the true religion, you have to be completely neutral as much as you can and you have to put aside your emotions and to think with your brain.
You have been brought up as a christian and you love your religion. What if your religion is wrong ? How will you be able to see this while you are preventiong yourself from thinking properly because of your overwhelming emotions?
The same applies to me too. When comparing religions, we have to put aside our emotions and think with our brains and only our brains not our brains and hearts.
This is what I did, when I was comparing Islam to Christianity a long time ago to find which religion is the true religion that I should follow in order to please God and be safe after this life.
Hope you are able to do the same.

Very good that you admitted it is spurious
Actually, there is no concept of a triune God in the Bible
The Bible mentions that there is only one God in both the OT and the NT
Jesus Pbuh makes it completely clear that this one and only true God is the Father

3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

The concept of triunity of God is not taught or preached by the Bible, it's just mere conclusions from christians
If the concept of triunity of God was clear in the Bible, one would expect all christians to believe in trinity, yet many christians in the past like Ebonites and Arians and many christians nowadays, like Jehova's witnesses do not believe in the trinity although they believe in the same books that you believe in
Why?
Because they read the Bible but they didn't find the concept of trinity in it
Let me paste what you said previously :
So you have nothing to prove the faith of trinity, other than proving that Jesus Pbuh is God ( which is a concept that contradicts many parts of the Bible) and to prove that the Holy spirit is God ( which is a concept that has nothing to support in the Bible) and then conclude that since God is one, they must all be a one God.
So your faith is just built upon completely debatable conclusions but is not mentioned frankkly in the Bible and the only frank evidence of it is spurious
If trinity is the faith that God wants us to believe in, why didn't he mention it frankly in the Bible? Why is the only phrase that mentions it frankly in the Bible spurious?
Surely, God doesn't want us to know anything about this faith or believe in it, if he wanted us to believe in it , he would have taughted it to us
This is completely logic, but you will just deny that it's logic because you gonna follow your overwhelming emotions, so please put them aside now and think with your brain

I am also amazed that you think that although 1 John 5:7 is spurious, it doesn't affect the central message of the Bible.
It surely affects it.
If this sentence is authentic then the Bible surely supports trinity.
If this sentence is spurious, then the Bible does not frankly support trinity and trinity is just a conclusion.

Here, there is misunderstanding from you
Let me explain to you first, how was the holy Quran transferred to us from the time of prophet Muhammad Pbuh
The Quran was transferred to us in 2 ways: orally and written
Let me give you a brief idea about both ways
Let's first discuss the oral way
The companions of the Prophet Pbuh learned the Quran directly from him and they memorized it and learned it by heart, others learned the Quran directly from the Prophet's companions, others learned from those who learned from the companions and so on making a continous chain starting by the Prophet Pbuh and ending by many people who are currently alive
This is what we call (Ijaza)
A muslim is said to have an (Ijaza) if he recites the Quran completely after knowing it by heart without reading in the presence of someone who has also recited the Quran after memorizing it in the presence of another one who has also recited the Quran after memorizing it in the presence of someone else who has also done the same making a continous chain to someone who has recited the Quran in the presence of one of the companions of the Prophet Pbuh who have learned the Quran directly from him. Those who have the Ijaza receive certificates showing the name of every single person in this chain starting by people who are currently alive and ending by the Prophet Pbuh himself.
This is how the holy Quran was orally transferred to us. We know many of the quranc verses by heart and we read them while doing our prayers without reading from the Mushaf ( Book in which the holy Quran is written) and many people know the holy Quran completely by heart.

Let's now discuss, how was the written Quran transferred to us.
Through the following steps :-
1- When the prophet Pbuh was alive, when he read the Quranic verses, some of his companions used to write these verses.
2- After the death of the Prophet Pbuh, Abu Bakr Alsedeek , his best companion, told Zaid Ibn Thabet to start collecting all the Quranic verses and suras in one place. The policy of Zaid ibn Thabet in the collection of the Quran was to write a quranic verse after finding it written and finding 2 men witnessing that they heard Prophet Muhammad Pbuh reading it. So what Zaid ibn thabet did, was collecting the Quranic verses that were written everywhere in one book or in one place.
3- Some of the companions of the prophet Pbuh wrote some of the quranic verses and suras independently, and they used to write with them some explanatory commentaries together with the Quranic verses. These companions went to other countries and the people began reading the Quran as written by these companions.
4- To solve this problem, Uthman collected all quranic texts written by the companions and burnt them and he returned to the text that was collected by Abu Bakr and Zaid Ibn Thabet which is written from the text that was written in the presence of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh and he copied this text and sent it to the different islamic countries.
This is why we are sure that the written text of the Quran is completely preserved. The text written by Uthman is taken from the text written by Abu Bakr which is taken from the text written when prophet Muhammad Pbuh was alive.