This was my first question
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Quote Originally Posted by 3abd Arahman View Post
Address the following :
1- All what has been mentioned in my posts after your last post.

You just didn’t bother to answer it
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Quote Originally Posted by 3abd Arahman View Post
Address the following :
2- How do you believe that Jesus Pbuh was God although he declared that the Father was the only true God and was his God and although he used to pray to the Father and although he didn't know when was the hour and although he was a man like other men who used to eat, drink, defecate and urinate and who used like other men to have a sexual desire ?.
I never said Jesus was God the father. I have been consistent to say He is the word of God incarnate or the son of God. He prayed to His father. Prayer is communication. It is not just Him speaking to God but God speaking to Jesus. Jesus calls the father His God, but the father calls Jesus God as well Heb. 1. He also calls Jesus His beloved Son.

According to Jesus, the Father was his God and the only true God
So, it seems you believe that the Father is the God of Jesus but still you believe that Jesus is God of everything else
It is logic that God has no God
There is no intermediate God who has a God but is the God of everything else
If the Father is the God of Jesus, then Jesus is not God
So clear and simple, but you are just denying it because this simple clear fact destroys your faith
The prayers of Jesus to God were not just communication
Jesus Pbuh used to bow down and put his face on the ground as we do in our prayers to show his poverty to God and his respect to him, so he is not God for sure

Mark 14


35 And He went forward a little, and fell on the ground and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him.
36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible unto Thee. Take away this cup from Me; nevertheless not what I will, but what Thou wilt.”
37 And He came back and found them sleeping, and said unto Peter, “Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest thou not watch one hour?
38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.”

39 And again He went away and prayed and spoke the same words.
I answered before your claim that Jesus was called God in Hebrews 1
I’ll paste what I said again
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Answer :

1- Epistle to Hebrews has been disputed by some of the early christians as mentioned by Eusebius
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf....viii.iii.html

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. Eusebius Pamphilius: Church History, Life of Constantine, Oration in Praise of Constantine





Chapter III.—The Epistles of the Apostles.




5. Paul’s fourteen epistles are well known and undisputed.593It is not indeed right to overlook the fact that some have rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews,594 saying that it is dis135
puted595 by the church of Rome, on the ground that it was not written by Paul. But what has been said concerning this epistle by those who lived before our time I shall quote in the proper place.596 In regard to the so-called Acts of Paul,597 I have not found them among the undisputed writings.598
2- There is a great debate about the author of epistle to Hebrews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors...to_the_Hebrews

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Authorship of the Epistle to the Hebrews

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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[IMG]file:///C:\Users\Ahmed\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image 001.jpg[/IMG]
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The King James Bible 1611 ed. ends the Epistle to the Hebrews with "Written to the Hebrewes, from Italy, by Timothie"

The author of Hebrews, that is, of the Epistle to the Hebrews, is unknown. Although perhaps the most common theory through the ages has been that Paul the Apostle is the author,[1] most modern scholars generally agree that it was not written by him.[2] Since thethird century A.D. doubts have been raised about the identity of the true author. It is one of the Antilegomena—New Testament books whose canonicity was initially somewhat disputed.[3]
Some scholars now believe that the author was one of Paul's pupils or associates, citing stylistic differences between Hebrews and the other Pauline epistles.[4]


Though the writing style varies from Paul in a number of ways, no author is internally named in the letter, and the authorship has been debated since the earliest days of the Church, there still are some who regard the apostle Paul as the writer of Hebrews due to some similarities noted in phrasings, and the similar focus on Christ's superior plan of salvation.[5] Editions of the King James Version of the Bible usually place a heading over Hebrews with the words, "The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Hebrews." However, that attribution was not part of the original document of Hebrews, but was added several hundred years later by scribes copying the book who believed Paul to be the author.[6]



3- This sentence is just taken from Psalm 45
The jews just translate it into ( Judge) instead of (God), which means that the phrase in Psalms 45 may not be referring to God at all, but the author translated it in this way to prove deity of christ
See Rashi's commentary on the Tanach
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi=true

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[TABLE="class: Co_TanachTable rashi_on, width: 100%"]

Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom.
4- Christian unitarians don't believe that Heb1 proves deity of Christ
Please read this whole page, written by christians not jews or muslims :
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/vid...-christ-as-god


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How about Psalm 45, another prophecy about the Messiah—this one about him riding forth victoriously to conquer and then rule the earth as God’s perfect representative. Verses 6 and 7 are quoted in Hebrews 1:8 and 9, which is where we will go next. Sad to say that in verse 6 the word “god” is once again mis-capitalized as “God.” No, like Psalm 82 and Isaiah 9:6, this psalm is also speaking of the Man among men, the one whom God would empower to restore His lost Paradise.OK, let’s look at Hebrews 1, and the context of the quote from Psalm 45. For the record, Hebrews 1 and 2 are a trenchant account of Jesus Christ’s journey from suffering to glory, emphasizing why he had to be a man (the Last Adam) in order to be the Redeemer of mankind. They are covered in detail in Chapters 2 and 3 of our One God & One Lordbook. Hebrews 1:1-3 shows how God did His best in Old Testament times to communicate to mankind via the spoken and written words of the prophets, but what He really had in mind was Jesus, His ultimate image. Verse 4 then begins a most significant analogy between Jesus and the angels that goes all the way through Chapter 2.
Verses 5, 6, and 7, each quoting an Old Testament reference, are speaking about the resurrection of Jesus Christ (v. 5—it’s not about his birth—look at Ps. 2:7 & Acts 13:33) and his return to the earth to rule (v. 6). Verse 8 clarifies that Psalm 45:6 and 7 are a Messianic prophecy, but the translators once again mis-capitalize “god” as “God.” But look at verse 9! It says, “…therefore God, even your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.” Say, if one is God, how can anyone else be his “God”? That should be a more frequently asked question! In agreement with many other verses of Scripture, Hebrews 1:9 is clearly saying that because Jesus Christ suffered and died, God raised him from the dead and highly exalted (anointed) him as Lord.
5- Let's read the whole verse from Psalms 45 or Heb 1

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

It is actually clear here that the speaker is addressing ( God) and then addressing someone else telling him (your God)
Surely, God has no God, and no one can speak to God telling him (your God)
Probably the one whom the speaker here addressed telling him (Your God) is king David or king Solomon and the christians will insist that the speaker is speaking to Jesus Pbuh
Even if we want to say that the speaker is speaking to only one person, we will have to accept the translation of the jews (O judge) instead that of christians (O God) because simply God has no God, and no one can speak to God telling him (Your God)

I also answered before your claim that since Jesus Pbuh was called – according to the Bible – (my beloved Son) then he is divine
I’ll paste my answer again
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Let's suppose that God really said that Jesus is his beloved son
According to the Bible, God also said that David is his begotten son and that Solomon is his son
So what's the difference?
The jews understand David being the begotten son of God as an expression meaning that God loves him, and the same applies for king Solomon Pbuh
But according to your understanding, you insist that Jesus being the beloved son of God means that he is God himself !!!!!!

Also you are ignoring that according to your Bible, God described Jesus as he's servant as in Matthew 12

17This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet: 18"BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.19"HE WILL NOT QUARREL, NOR CRY OUT; NOR WILL ANYONE HEAR HIS VOICE IN THE STREETS.…

So Jesus Pbuh is the servant of God, how on earth could he be the servant of God and God himself?

Moreover, if the Bible contains spurious parts and errors and contradictions as you yourself admit, how do you know that everything mentioned in it is true? how do you know that at the baptism of Jesus Pbuh, a voice was heard from heaven saying ( this is my beloved son) ? How do you know that this is not a fake story?
If you say to anyone that the story of the voice saying (this is my beloved son) comes from a book containing errors, contradictions and spurious parts, no one will believe the story and they will tell you it's probably one of the errors in this book.


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I also said since Jesus is the word of God, he is eternal and uncreated. That is why Jesus is the only prophet that could say before Abraham was I am or the only prophet that could forgive sin and accept worship as Jesus did. Jesus was limited as man. He was less than God in function, office and position , but equal in nature, essence and character. That is why he could say "If you have seen me you have seen the father"This thoroughly answers this question.

I answered all these points
First of all, the Bible doesn’t support your belief that Jesus Pbuh was uncreated, according to the Bible Jesus is the first creation
14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the pAmen, qthe faithful and true witness, rthe beginning of God’s creation. (ESV)
And since Jesus is God’s creation, therefore he is not God
This was my answer to (Before Abraham was, I am)
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Let's suppose that Jesus Pbuh really said : ( Before Abraham I am )
Does this really prove that he is God?

See, compare this to the hadith of prophet Muhammad Pbuh : ""I was a Prophet when Adam was between bodyandsoul"

Prophet Muhammad Pbuh doesn't want to say that he was physically present before Adam was created, he just wants to say that his prophethood was determined by God and was known to God before Adam's creation

The same applies to ( Before Abraham, I am), it doesn't mean that Jesus Pbuh was physically present before Abraham, it means that his prophethood was determined by God and known to God since earlier stages.

Read Jeremiah 1 also :

4 The Lord’s word came to me:
5 “Before I created you in the womb I knew you;
before you were born I set you apart;


I made you a prophet to the nations.”

Do you think that this means that Jeremiah was physically present as a prophet before he was born ?

This was my answer to Jesus forgiving sins
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Well, according to the Bible, the disciples have the authority to forgive sins too
John 20
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father sent me, so I am sending you.”22 Then he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven; if you don’t forgive them, they aren’t forgiven.”

Are the disciples divine too?
If you say no, but they were given the authority to forgive the sins from God, I'll tell you ok, so why doesn't the same apply to Jesus? Why don't you say he was given the authority to forgive sins from God?

This was my answer to your claim that Jesus accepted worship
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You claim that Jesus Pbuh accepted worship, you think this is true because the english translations of the Bible say that people worshipped Jesus. The word that is translated to worship is
προσκυνεο

which may just mean kneel or bow

This is the meaning of this word from the Netbible website :




[TR]
[TD="class: content"]1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 3a1) to the Jewish high priests 3a2) to God 3a3) to Christ 3a4) to heavenly beings 3a5) to demons[/TD]
[/TR]


What you didn’t comment on is that Jesus said that the Father is the only true God, so he is not God neither the Holy Spirit is God
Let me paste what I said again
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Actually Jesus Pbuh was teaching that the only God is the Father, this is what we believe in.
John 17
3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
So according to the teaching of Jesus Pbuh, the Father is the only true God. According to your which Jesus Pbuh never taught, there are 3 persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit.
Can't you see the major difference between what the church is teaching and what the Christ was teaching ?
The major difference is very clear, if you deny it because you don't want to see it I won't be able to help you. It's your choice to either admit this clear and obvious difference or to deny it, but you are responsible for your choice, it's either an eternal life in paradise or an eternal life in hell.

Also you didn’t comment on the fact that prophet Jesus Pbuh as a normal man used to have sexual desire, used to urinate and defecate
This is ok for all humankind including prophets, but God for sure is not like this
My question to you is do you believe that your God used to have sexual desire, wet dreams, urinate and defecate?
Also do you think of Jesus as an intermediate God who had his own God the Father but yet he is the God of everything else? I hope you don't believe this nonsense