Trinity and development of doctorine

[3abd Arahman]

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I did address all your points.

Surely, you didn't.

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What is missing that I didn't address?

Address the following :
1- All what has been mentioned in my posts after your last post.tha2- How do you believe that Jesus Pbuh was God although he declared that the Father was the only true God and was his God and although he used to pray to the Father and although he didn't know when was the hour and although he was a man like other men who used to eat, drink, defecate and urinate and who used like other men to have a sexual desire ?
3- If you admit that the Bible contains errors, contradictions and spurious parts, how do you believe it is the word of God? How do you trust the stories of the Bible? Who knows maybe they are wrong like other errors in the Bible? Maybe the story of the crucifixion and rising again in the third day is a false story. Who knows? How can you trust the Bible as a source of your faith if it contains errors, contradictions and spurious parts?
4- How do you explain the false prophecies of the Bible and the true prophecies of Islam?
5- How do you explain the plagarism of the concept of the Logos by the author of the fourth gospel from Philo who was a heretic jew that was alive at the time of Jesus Pbuh ?

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I even followed the link you gave and responded in a different way what I had already responded to.

Do you mean the link that shows texts written by Catholic bishops showing that they believe that virgin Mary is divine and has transformed into God?
Actually, you have not answered these texts at all, you just ignored them.

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You seem to blow off all I say as emotion, but that is not very convincing in a debate or discussion.

In fact, you are now avoiding using excessive emotions as you used to do before, and this is good.

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Please tell me straight out how many times did you have to post before you could post directly?

This was discussed earlier.

[Burninglight]

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Surely, you didn't..

I will try again to answer you.

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Address the following :
1- All what has been mentioned in my posts after your last post.tha2- How do you believe that Jesus Pbuh was God although he declared that the Father was the only true God and was his God and although he used to pray to the Father and although he didn't know when was the hour and although he was a man like other men who used to eat, drink, defecate and urinate and who used like other men to have a sexual desire ?.

I never said Jesus was God the father. I have been consistent to say He is the word of God incarnate or the son of God. He prayed to His father. Prayer is communication. It is not just Him speaking to God but God speaking to Jesus. Jesus calls the father His God, but the father calls Jesus God as well Heb. 1. He also calls Jesus His beloved Son.

I also said since Jesus is the word of God, he is eternal and uncreated. That is why Jesus is the only prophet that could say before Abraham was I am or the only prophet that could forgive sin and accept worship as Jesus did. Jesus was limited as man. He was less than God in function, office and position , but equal in nature, essence and character. That is why he could say "If you have seen me you have seen the father"This thoroughly answers this question.

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3- If you admit that the Bible contains errors, contradictions and spurious parts, how do you believe it is the word of God? How do you trust the stories of the Bible? Who knows maybe they are wrong like other errors in the Bible? Maybe the story of the crucifixion and rising again in the third day is a false story. Who knows? How can you trust the Bible as a source of your faith if it contains errors, contradictions and spurious parts?.

Because the central gospel message is totally and completely in tact. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. I believe Jesus is the word of God. The Bible contains a lot of the words of God, but it is like a story or history book of man's failures and God's interaction and interventions. It is sought of like your hadiths and nothing like the Quran is supposed to be. I don't believe the Quran is God's word either. Now, I believe God can speak to us in a small still voice using Scripture; then it becomes the word of God to us. This answers your question here as well.

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4- How do you explain the false prophecies of the Bible and the true prophecies of Islam?.

There are no false prophecies in the Bible, and there are no prophecies I know of in the Quran. Saying someone will win a battle and that happens could be a lucky guess or a calculated probability and not a prophecy.

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5- How do you explain the plagarism of the concept of the Logos by the author of the fourth gospel from Philo who was a heretic jew that was alive at the time of Jesus Pbuh ?.

I had answered this in another thread mentioning your name, because you closed this thread and now opened it again. Make up your mind keep it open or closed. Philo and John could've gotten that information from a common source, but this cannot be said about the virgin birth of Jesus; it could only have been borrowed from the original source which is the NT Bible. Therefore, the reason the original source gives for Jesus' virgin birth should be accepted and not a secondary source that imperfectly borrows from the original Scriptures.

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Do you mean the link that shows texts written by Catholic bishops showing that they believe that virgin Mary is divine and has transformed into God?
Actually, you have not answered these texts at all, you just ignored them..

I didn't see this link. Please post it again, but note that Catholics are not necessarily Biblical Christians. If they worship Mary, consider her divine, and transformed into God, they are not following Christianity, and they are committing idolatry. I have seen Catholics kissing stone statues of saints and Mary in the church, but I don't see how that is any different than Muslims kissing a black stone at the Kaaba. Most Catholic Christians resemble adherents to Islam, IMHO. Most Catholics are nominal Christians. I see Islam as a reaction to Catholicism which is a misconception of true Biblical Christianity like you are hearing from yours truly.

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In fact, you are now avoiding using excessive emotions as you used to do before, and this is good..

I am glad you approve.

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This was discussed earlier.

Discussed but not answered. How many posts do we have to make to be able to post directly? Is there a double standard for non Muslims?

Blessings

[3abd Arahman]

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I didn't see this link. Please post it again, but note that Catholics are not necessarily Biblical Christians. If they worship Mary, consider her divine, and transformed into God, they are not following Christianity, and they are committing idolatry. I have seen Catholics kissing stone statues of saints and Mary in the church, but I don't see how that is any different than Muslims kissing a black stone at the Kaaba. Most Catholic Christians resemble adherents to Islam, IMHO. Most Catholics are nominal Christians. I see Islam as a reaction to Catholicism which is a misconception of true Biblical Christianity like you are hearing from yours truly.

How many times do you have to put this link so that you can read it? I'm really afraid that you are missing a lot of what I'm saying.
Here you are again :

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Read this :

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/omnip.htm

Here are some quotes from this link

[pg. 416]
Hence St.George, Archbishop of Nicomedia, says, O great Mother of God: "Thou hast insuperable [unsurpassable] strength, since the multitude of our sins does not outweigh thy clemency.Nothing resists thy power, for the Creator regards thy honor as his own. ..

[pg. 419]
Let us always have recourse to this divine Mother, who knows not how to let any one who invokes her aid depart without consolation, says Blosius. ...

[pg. 421]
Every little act of devotion is sufficient to secure the patronage of this divine Mother. ...


[pg. 16]
27. Inasmuch as grace perfects nature, and glory perfects grace, it is certain that Our Lord is still, in Heaven, as much the Son of Mary as He was on earth; and that, consequently, He has retained the obedience and submission of the most perfect Child toward the best of all mothers. But we must take great pains not to conceive this dependence as any abasement or imperfection in Jesus Christ. For Mary is infinitely below her Son, who is God, and therefore she does not command Him as a mother here below would command her child who is below her. Mary, being altogether transformed into God by grace and by the glory which transforms all the saints into Him, asks nothing, wishes nothing, does nothing contrary to the eternal and immutable will of God. When we read that in the writings of Sts. Bernard, Bernardine, Bonaventure and others that in Heaven and on earth everything, even God Himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God has been well pleased to give her is so great that [pg. 17] it seems as if she had the same power as God; and that her prayers and petitions are so powerful with God that they always pass for commandments with His Majesty, who never resists the prayer of His dear Mother, because she is always humble and conformed to His will.

28. In the Heavens Mary commands the angels and the blessed. As a recompense for her profound humility, God has empowered her and commissioned her to fill with saints the empty thrones from which the apostate angels fell by pride. The will of the Most High, who exalts the humble (Lk. 1:52), is that Heaven, earth and Hell bend, with good will or bad will, to the commandments of the humble Mary,whom He has made sovereign of Heaven and earth, general of His armies, treasurer of His treasures, dispenser of His graces, worker of His greatest marvels, restorer of the human race, Mediatrix of men, the exterminator of the enemies of God, and the faithful companion of His grandeurs and triumphs.

It's not important to me whether you think those who consider Mary divine are true christians or are pagans, the important issue is that there are people who consider Mary divine or peole who took her a god, besides those who worship her without saying she is divine, according to arabic language, those have taken her also a god, the holy Quran is speaking about both. The important issue is that there is no error in the holy Quran at all as you are claiming.
Kissing the black stone is certainly different than worshipping Mary. We kiss the black stone but we know that it is a stone that can't benefit anyone or harm him. We know it is just a stone that has no power at all. While those who worship Mary, ask her to forgive them and help them, they think she has an extraordinary power, they don't think of her as a normal woman, they pray to her and worship her. We don't do this with the black stone of course.

Notice 2 things:
1- See the difference between my answer and your answer. I answer everything you say in details, I take a long time to prepare a good answer, you just answer short answers quickly without commenting on most issues I am discussing.
2- You keep repeating what you say without taking into consideration my answers, this is why most of my recent answers are just pasted from previous answers.