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Adam and Eve in the Bible and the Quran

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  • #46
    المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة محمد سني 1989 مشاهدة المشاركة
    These are the only points I see worthy of answering or actually relates to the subject :
    First yes the bible do picture that eve was first to be deceived but the magnitude of the blame falls mostly on her not Adam as I have shown in previous responses

    Second the so called improvements you accused the quran of also applies to the New testament one example : it is only in the new testament not the OT which states that the serpent was satan, it is only on the NT that Adam transmitted this sin.

    As for inheritting the sin in christianity , again you are ignoring paul's words and the passages he wrote :

    12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law

    Romans 5: 12-13

    peace
    Yes, it does appear that Eve received most of the blame to me as well. IMO, we can see that Islam yields to this Biblical idea from the way women are seen and treated just as the world has treated women with lower pay than men or their work is rejected simply because they are women, but the NT fights against it by saying their is not male or female in Christ Jesus. What does Islam do to show women share equally with men? The man gets 72 virgins in Islam maybe, but what to the women get? Are they the lucky ones who get to be one of 72 virgins for some Muslim man?

    As for inheritting the sin in christianity and my ignoring Paul's words doesn't exist. The passages he wrote needs to be read carefully:
    12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law Romans 5: 12-13

    This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin. Sin is like a cancer that spreads. It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way. Have you ever caught someone else's cold? Do you blame God for the way He made life and death? Just as sin and death has spread to all men so righteousness through Christ, but we have to meet God on His terms to access it like the children of Israel did during the Passover. They put the blood of the lamb on their door post and so we must put the blood of Christ on our souls or death will claim us for eternity! It is your choice to believe truth or lie. You are free to choose but not from the consequences of your choices.

    Peace

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    • #47
      المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Burninglight مشاهدة المشاركة
      Yes, it does appear that Eve received most of the blame to me as well. IMO,

      As for inheritting the sin in christianity and my ignoring Paul's words doesn't exist. The passages he wrote needs to be read carefully:
      12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law Romans 5: 12-13

      This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin. Sin is like a cancer that spreads. It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way. Have you ever caught someone else's cold?

      Peace
      Again the rules of the blog are clear you are not allowed to divert from the topic and bring up multiple topics in one response

      This section is what actually has a response

      First you said :

      Yes, it does appear that Eve received most of the blame to me as well

      And thats my point

      Then you said :

      This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin
      So sin is not inheritted

      Then you say this :
      Sin is like a cancer that spreads
      Ok so it spreads as Paul said and as have I said

      Then you clarify more by contradicting your first statement :

      It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way. Have you ever caught someone else's cold?
      So it is spread to us and we caught it from someone else (our father Adam according to paul) !!!

      we caught something from our father and it spreads throughout generations = inheritting something from our father

      IT IS THE SAME DEFINITION

      Two statements which contradict each other :
      1.
      This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin
      2.
      Sin is like a cancer that spreads. It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way
      So How in the world do we have our own sins if the orginal sin spreads from one generation to another ????

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      • #48
        المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة محمد سني 1989 مشاهدة المشاركة
        Again the rules of the blog are clear you are not allowed to divert from the topic and bring up multiple topics in one response

        This section is what actually has a response

        First you said :

        Yes, it does appear that Eve received most of the blame to me as well

        And thats my point

        Then you said :

        This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin
        So sin is not inheritted

        Then you say this :
        Sin is like a cancer that spreads
        Ok so it spreads as Paul said and as have I said

        Then you clarify more by contradicting your first statement :

        It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way. Have you ever caught someone else's cold?
        So it is spread to us and we caught it from someone else (our father Adam according to paul) !!!

        we caught something from our father and it spreads throughout generations = inheritting something from our father

        IT IS THE SAME DEFINITION

        Two statements which contradict each other :
        1.
        This is not saying we inherited Adam's sin. It says we have our own sin
        2.
        Sin is like a cancer that spreads. It is like someone having a sickness that someone gets. God made life that way
        So How in the world do we have our own sins if the orginal sin spreads from one generation to another ????
        My post was not a contradiction. You cannot gainsay me so you are trying to make it look like I am contradicting myself to make yourself look creditable, but it doesn't work that way.

        We don't inherit someone's cold as you said, and we don't inherit sin as you say I am saying, but we have received a sinful nature that is NOT sin in itself; it is a propensity to sin that is in all human nature, and when we do sin, it is our sin not Adam's sin. You are responsible for your thoughts, words and actions not Adam's!!! It is written, "For all have sinned and come short of God's glory. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through (and only through) Jesus." You have counted yourself unworthy of this gift of God, and that is your choice. End of story.

        Peace

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        • #49
          المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Burninglight مشاهدة المشاركة
          My post was not a contradiction. You cannot gainsay me so you are trying to make it look like I am contradicting myself to make yourself look creditable, but it doesn't work that way.

          We don't inherit someone's cold as you said, and we don't inherit sin as you say I am saying, but we have received a sinful nature that is NOT sin in itself; it is a propensity to sin that is in all human nature, and when we do sin, it is our sin not Adam's sin. You are responsible for your thoughts, words and actions not Adam's!!! It is written, "For all have sinned and come short of God's glory. The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through (and only through) Jesus." You have counted yourself unworthy of this gift of God, and that is your choice. End of story.

          Peace


          Your statement is contradictory

          since you said we do not inherit but it spreads across generations caught from the older generations is that not actually inheritance ????!!!!!


          Here is the christian interpritation of the passage :

          5:12-14 The design of what follows is plain. It is to exalt our views respecting the blessings Christ has procured for us, by comparing them with the evil which followed upon the fall of our first father; and by showing that these blessings not only extend to the removal of these evils, but far beyond. Adam sinning, his nature became guilty and corrupted, and so came to his children. Thus in him all have sinned. And death is by sin; for death is the wages of sin. Then entered all that misery which is the due desert of sin; temporal, spiritual, eternal death. If Adam had not sinned, he had not died; but a sentence of death was passed, as upon a criminal; it passed through all men, as an infectious disease that none escape. In proof of our union with Adam, and our part in his first transgression, observe, that sin prevailed in the world, for many ages before the giving of the law by Moses. And death reigned in that long time, not only over adults who wilfully sinned, but also over multitudes of infants, which shows that they had fallen in Adam under condemnation, and that the sin of Adam extended to all his posterity. He was a figure or type of Him that was to come as Surety of a new covenant, for all who are related to Him
          Source:Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

          I think this speeks for itself

          peace

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          • #50
            المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة محمد سني 1989 مشاهدة المشاركة


            Your statement is contradictory

            since you said we do not inherit but it spreads across generations caught from the older generations is that not actually inheritance ????!!!!!


            Here is the christian interpritation of the passage :

            5:12-14 The design of what follows is plain. It is to exalt our views respecting the blessings Christ has procured for us, by comparing them with the evil which followed upon the fall of our first father; and by showing that these blessings not only extend to the removal of these evils, but far beyond. Adam sinning, his nature became guilty and corrupted, and so came to his children. Thus in him all have sinned. And death is by sin; for death is the wages of sin. Then entered all that misery which is the due desert of sin; temporal, spiritual, eternal death. If Adam had not sinned, he had not died; but a sentence of death was passed, as upon a criminal; it passed through all men, as an infectious disease that none escape. In proof of our union with Adam, and our part in his first transgression, observe, that sin prevailed in the world, for many ages before the giving of the law by Moses. And death reigned in that long time, not only over adults who wilfully sinned, but also over multitudes of infants, which shows that they had fallen in Adam under condemnation, and that the sin of Adam extended to all his posterity. He was a figure or type of Him that was to come as Surety of a new covenant, for all who are related to Him
            Source:Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

            I think this speeks for itself

            peace
            Let me ask you a question. In every day life, is it possible to suffer because of what someone else does? For instance, if someone runs a red light, is it possible for someone to be hurt or killed as a result of it? Is it possible for someone to catch someone else's sickness or disease? If you answer yes, hen tell me why does God allow that? You can call it contradiction if you want, but I will not argue the contradiction point your trying to make any further with you, but I'd be interested in hearing your response to my questions.

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            • #51
              المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Burninglight مشاهدة المشاركة
              Let me ask you a question. In every day life, is it possible to suffer because of what someone else does? For instance, if someone runs a red light, is it possible for someone to be hurt or killed as a result of it? Is it possible for someone to catch someone else's sickness or disease? If you answer yes, hen tell me why does God allow that? You can call it contradiction if you want, but I will not argue the contradiction point your trying to make any further with you, but I'd be interested in hearing your response to my questions.

              You are talking about something which completely contradicts the text

              First your example here in not right because what the passage and the interpritation is talking about is the spread through generations starting from Adam
              A better example would be a genetic virus that travels genetically from father to son , it spreads that way

              peace

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              • #52
                I addressed this but my post hasn't shown up.

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                • #53
                  المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Burninglight مشاهدة المشاركة
                  I addressed this but my post hasn't shown up.

                  Maybe because it has nothing to do with the topic!

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                  • #54
                    المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة محمد سني 1989 مشاهدة المشاركة
                    Maybe because it has nothing to do with the topic!
                    Maybe, or my response & answer couldn't be gainsaid.

                    In Islam, I understand that Satan was a jinn who was told to bow to or worship Adam, and he wouldn't do it. This story is not according to our Scriptures, and I don't know where that story comes from.

                    I thought Islam teaches that only God is to be worshipped? Adam was the first man created, and he was not a prophet or anyone to bow to according to Christianity; in fact, Jesus is the last Adam and He is a life giving Spirit.

                    peace

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                    • #55
                      المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Burninglight مشاهدة المشاركة
                      Maybe, or my response & answer couldn't be gainsaid.

                      In Islam, I understand that Satan was a jinn who was told to bow to or worship Adam, and he wouldn't do it. This story is not according to our Scriptures, and I don't know where that story comes from.

                      I thought Islam teaches that only God is to be worshipped? Adam was the first man created, and he was not a prophet or anyone to bow to according to Christianity; in fact, Jesus is the last Adam and He is a life giving Spirit.

                      peace
                      Couldn'y be gainsaid HAHAHA LOL

                      funny coming from the guy who could not bring one single evidece of trinity , admitted the OT has errors, the NT has variations


                      As for the difference in scriptures : my friend we have different religions , what did you expect

                      One statement shows how you do not know much about christianity itself:

                      Adam was the first man created, and he was not a prophet or anyone to bow to according to Christianity; in fac
                      First Adam had almost 100 offspring , he was their prophet and teacher

                      Second :bowing in those times was a sign of respect not divinity of whom you are bowing to :

                      1 Samuel 24
                      7 With these words David rebuked his men and did not allow them to attack Saul. And Saul left the cave and went his way.
                      8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul,
                      "My lord the king!" When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
                      9 He said to Saul, "Why do you listen when men say, 'David is bent on harming you'?

                      Another example :

                      And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

                      Genesis 42: 6

                      And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me

                      Genesis 37:9

                      Read your bible

                      A reminser is that the refusal of bowing down to Adam exists in the book of the life of Adam and Eve which is an ancient jewish text rejected by jews , however the abbesinian church did not

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