God is spirit and He is holy; therefore, He is the Holy Spirit. That verse says they lied to the Holy Spirit who is God. You don't understand Christianity and the disciples intentions and understanding we do because we are the people of the Book. you are not and don't understand. Yes, the Quran says Jesus is the word be, but this make a argument for Jesus being the I am He claimed to be just as God told Moses I am that I am. Jesus said "Before Abraham was I am" Did you not know and hasn't it been told to you from the beginning that I am is a form of Be? Jesus is the word "Be" God use to create all things. The word of God is uncreated and eternal. This is where you error not knowing the Scriptures or the power thereof. The Bible is not corrupted as you would have us believe. Even the Quran proves it. You infer from it whast you want to believe; therefore I can do the same.

Sura 3:3 says:



He has sent down upon thee the Book with truth,
confirming what was before it,
and he sent down the Torah and the Gospel aforetime. [Arberry]

The parallel statement in regard to this "sending down" is captured even better in Pickthall's translation which reads:



He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth
confirming that which was (revealed) before it,
EVEN AS He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

"Even as" = "in just the same way." The Arabic itself doesn't say "just as" but it makes the exact same statement about both, and has no hint that it should be understood in a different way. Furthermore have a look at Sura 4:47, stating:

You who have been given the Book,
believe in what We have sent down,
confirming what _IS_ with you. [Arberry]
O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given!
Believe in what We have revealed
confirming THAT WHICH YE POSSESS. [Pickthall]

Can anyone really be justified in saying that the Qur'an does not speak about the scriptures of the Jews and Christians which they have in their possession at the time of Muhammad but about some other "scriptural entity" which we really can't know what it is or was, ...?? You Muslims make the claim that it is certainly NOT speaking about the scriptures of the Jews and Christians as they are today, even though there is no doubt that they are the same as what the Jews and Christians had in the 7th century. [The New Testament is today translated from manuscripts that date 250 years before Muhammad]. The onus is on you along with the burden of proof that the Scriptures we have today aren't the same as during your prophet's life time and before; moreover, the burden of proof is on you to show how, when, where, and why the Scripture were corrupted and why God chose not to preserve what he promised would be established forever and what Allah commanded we stand on as people of the Book. How can you say you have something better to offer us people of the Book?

Peace

ِAs for the quran , your understanding of the word of god is different than ours . The word of god in Islam means a refference to the word be which god said to create jesus in the womb of his mother and the same word which was used to create Adam :

Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.Quran 3: 59

So he did come in flesh and blood as Adam did

As for the passage of Ananias and Sapphira it does not show that the holy spirit is god !!!! you are twisting the context :

1But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet.3But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?4"While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."…

No way in the context does it say that holy spirit is god , rather the holy spirit because it was with them from the time of jesus , also this context shows that he lied to god for his stealing. The lying to the holy ghost meant lying to the holy ghost within peter and the deciples (in other words to them ):





"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost."(John 20:21-22)

The part about not lying to men means that ultimately you are lying to god

peace

First I already showed you examples of the corruption of the bible . As for the Quran we already had this debate and I showed you how wrong you were . Yet you did not answer and chose to ignore and repeat again. Here review response number 17 : https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t200432-2.html
This response within my dialogue with pandora . If you were to ask me to prove that jesus is not god and I quoted the Quran would you believe, you would say no because it is not your resource , this is what Pandora and you are doing , your logic is for me to accept the bible no matter what whther I am christian or not and accept even though it was manipulated this is a twisted "I do not believe in common sense" logic.

Second heaven , hell , and monotheism was already know before the birth of Jesus . so I could apply the same argument but at least jews do not belief in the concept of the father , the son , the holy spirit and so do muslims .

Third believe me islam passes the test successfully unlike your bible , why is it till now you could not prove that the bible was not manipulated !!!! As for the virgin birth well the virgin birth was known to other sects of christians also using different gospels however , We never claimed that the gospels were replaced fully rather we say they were manipulated meaning altered . In the english language this means changing sentences , adding and removing passages and so on .

Fourth thats right we do not worship jesus we worship the god of jesus which jesus preached for.

None of your responses has to do with my discussion nor does it relate to the sections which you quoted , try having an actual answer instead of cherry picking and stating and trying to sweet talk your own beliefs

peace

Definition of divine (adj)

Dictionary
di·vine
[ di vī́n ]
1.having godlike nature: being God or a god or goddess
2.relating to God, gods, or goddesses: connected with, coming from, or caused by God or a god or goddess
3.connected with worship: relating to the worship or service of God or a god or goddess

synonyms: heavenly · celestial · godly · deific · godlike

It means God, even God calls Jesus "God" Heb. 1. Twist it all you like, but know that it doesn't convince Christians who know Jesus, and it is only to the peril of you soul that you try to make our Scripture say what you want to be is true about Islam..

Peace

That is not true. In the beginning was the Word. The word was with God and the word was God. Think about that. Jesus is the word of God incarnate. Even the Quran says He is a word from Allah. If he didn't come in flesh and blood, what did He come in? The Bible states that God is Spirit and we know He is Holy. Jesus said, I will go, but the Holy Spirit will come. Moreover, when disciples of Jesus lied to the Holy Spirit recorded in Acts, the disciples said to the ones that lied. "You have lied to God" They dropped dead on the spot. The spirit of God descended on Jesus at His baptism. Jesus said go and baptize in the name of the father, son and Holy Spirit. There is lots of evidence of God's tri unity. But explain God's oneness now.

Your Scriptures are corrupted to us as well; so, are we to believe God wouldn't preserve His torah and gospel so he could bring a message to confirm that actually contradicts the torah and gospel we now have? Are we to accept Biblical corruption when no Muslim can say when and where this corruption took place, by whom and what was the motive was? We can tell you when the Quran was burned and by whom; we can tell you that Uthman used the help of text to recompile the destroyed Qurans, and afterwards, the text Uthman used to recompile the Quran was destroyed; so, how do you figure that is perfect preservation of the Quran? IMHO, this logic is to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. I cannot do it, because my spirit, soul, mind and better judgment will not let me. I cannot throw godly wisdom, human logic and reason out the window.

The point is communication happened and news spread faster than you think. It cannot be ruled out that Islam's prophet heard the virgin birth story that was already in print before his birth. Monotheism, Heaven and hell, and the virgin birth of Jesus was already known before your prophet's birth; so, nothing new was brought to Christianity other than what we already knew.

You say nonsense, but that is your opinion. The virgin birth story of Jesus is only found in the NT Bible. Had Islam's prophet said Jesus was not born of a virgin, he could've have had a stronger argument that Jesus wasn't the son of God, but now Muslims have to deal with why Jesus was born in an unconventional human manner. There is a reason for it, and the source of the virgin birth story has the reason that will burn through the souls of those who reject it. You spirit must know this and yet you resist. Why???
You are correct, but we can question the Quran and the source of it, because we are commanded by God the test very spirit and not believe them all. Islam doesn't pass the test for the Jew or born again Biblical Christian. There is a reason for that, but you don't know or understand why.
You don't worship Jesus because you don't know who He is. We do, and we know that Jesus healed everyone He came in contact with and people worshipped Him when He forgave sin and healed the lame and the blind. Jesus never stopped them from worshipping Him. God doesn't allow anyone other than himself to share His glory. Jesus said, you will die in sin unless you believe I am He. We believe Jesus is He and that no one comes to God except through Him. good luck trying to get to god by human effort and understanding because it has already been condemned by God. You can say that is a corruption in the Bible but I

Ignoring the marginalities in your response. You said that nobody can explain the trinity of god and it is a waste of time to debate about it well that is my point you cannot debate and explain it because it does not exist , it is simply not there in the OT and the NT it has been added almost 300 years later which you still did not answer.
BTW John 1 in greek manuscripts does not say and the word was god rather it says and the word was divine meaning from the begining

​peace

The part about the JW and write up was meant for 3abd Arahman's response on the trinity. I couldn't edit my post.

That is not the most important principal of Christianity. The death of Christ, His shed blood for our sin, and His resurrection from the dead are the most important principles along with salvation by God's grace through faith. This is the gift from God that we can only access by believing Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith and the son of God who gave Himself for our redemption, and that there is no other way to receive eternal life, paradise or heaven. Without believing and accepting this gospel people will die in their sin unless they believe Jesus is He and that no one comes to God except through Him as Jesus Himself said!
As for the trinity, the Bible doesn't tell us that we should teach on it. God has personally shown me He is a trinity by bearing witness with my spirit, but that wasn't something I was told to teach or try to figure out with my own understanding. All Christians know is that in the beginning was the word who was with God and was God, Jn. 1. And we know that God is Spirit and He is Holy. The Holy Spirit is God. No Christian can explain how God's Word and Holiness could be one and yet distinct persons of God's tri-unity. It is a waste of time debating this. As I mentioned, you cannot explain God's oneness anymore than I can explain the trinity. The other point I tried to make is that Muslims bring up the trinity more than Christians to argue against Christianity, but this tragedy fails miserably. Basically, your write up on the trinity took us no where, and in my opinion, as a once JW that you were, you went from the fryer into the fire. Finally, your write up is puffed up head knowledge that profits you nothing spiritually or anyone else in the things of God. I tell you in love and truth the way God shows it to me.

Peace.

Now you are trying to marginilize the most important principle in christianity , a principle that was actually the most important element and core belief out of the council of Nicea !!!!!


This was the subject of debate not just with muslims but also with jews and other old christian sects

Trinity is mentioned mostly by Muslims; the only reason we talk about the trinity is because you and other Muslims are fixated on it. It is not mentioned in the Bible as a term we are suppose to teach on, because the essence of God is past finding out for anyone.
Can you explain what the perfect oneness of God is. You cannot explain it anymore than we can God's tri unity. So why to you waste your time and ours on the topic of trinity when we believe God is one as well?

The capitalized letters are not to shout but to indicate a conclusion or an important point

peace

There is no need to shout... With your use of upper case letters! Jesus is Jesus ... YHWH is YHWH.

Peace unto you.

Pandora do not misunderstand brother نصير الدين Allah is an arabic translation from the syriac illah which is the syriac translation of elohim . Allah simply means god in arabic it is also used in the arabic bible . Inscriptions of Allah were found on re islamic christian tombs to refer to god, Source:
James Bellamy, ‘Two Pre-Islamic Arabic Inscriptions Revised: Jabal Ramm and Umm al-Jimal’, Journal of the American Oriental Society, 108/3 (1988)

Also there were jews and christians in pre islamic times who included the name allah in their names such as Abdullah ibn salam and Andullah ibn Soriyya two jewish rabbis in Medina before Islam

Syriac and ithopian texts in pre islamic times also include the name :
Rick Brown, Who was ‘Allah’ before Islam? Evidence that the term ‘Allah’ originated with Jewish and Christian Arabs (2007), page 8.

And many other examples the reason for this detailed explanation is that we have started to hear a lot of non Arab westener christians who say such things as in Allah is not God!!!! SO IT IS A MATTER OF LINGUISTIC

What brother نصير الدين meant was that your worship of trinity is not the same as worshipping god . You are worshipping Jesus peace be upon him as god BUT WE DO NOT BELIEVE HE IS GOD THATS WHY WE HAVE DIFFERENT GODS IN THAT MEANING , JESUS IS NOT YAHWEH

PEACE

I was going to go through your post and thought to reply in my usual unworthy manner of response then read this... I need to think about what you have said here, because I have always told myself that Allah and YHWH were one and the same.. Just muslims referred to YHWH as Allah was a matter of linguistics. Now you say we do not share the ONE TRUE GOD.. And you worship a different God to myself.. I don't know what to say.. If you do not worship YHWH.. The God of the Abraham and all the Biblical prophets and Jesus.. Then I don't see we have anything at all to discuss for there can be no common ground between us. I seriously beg you to consider if Allah is NOT YHWH.. Then who are you praying to.

[QUOTE]While we believe success to doing and being good is from Allah , we don't believe in the need of a saviour that is a creature . That's where we differ .[\QUOTE]

We also do not believe we have a saviour that is a "creature". That's NOT what the Bible teaches. I see the main point we differ is your prophet...

Im sorry.. I am shaken by your claim. I need time to consider your words and hope I have misread them... Though they seem clear enough.

Peace to you.