well.. I have yet to see the proof of that and until I do I shall continue to view the Bible in the way God intended me to. The whole question of Bible corruption and the claims Muslim make accordingly are based largely on misunderstandings, suppositions and conjecture. That may be good enough for yourself to take as evidence but for me I need something more. If I am to believe that YHWH is so weak a God that is unable to protect His message from corruption by His creation then I need real evidence of that fact.

So from my point of view I see the Bible is the original message of YHWH.. The New Testament fulfilled the Old Testament on matters of law. The Old Testament is the gradual unfolding of Mankind's journey from their fall into sin to the hope and promise of redemption through the Messiah Jesus..Through the New Testament we see the culmination of that journey and the promise made good. There were no need for battles in Gods name.. Except for the spiritual. It's the time of forgiveness, mercy, grace and love.

Then 600 years later along comes another revelation.. But now the era of forgiveness to all is past, forgiving ones enemies is past, mercy is limited to those who accept Islam as the only religion... grace is something you may hope for but have no guarantee of obtaining and love.. I don't see where that is at all. God decides that now it is allowed to kill in His name, to wage war in His name.. You will not see this view as you view Islam as a Muslim.. But to a non Muslim who does not have the same understanding of the Quran as yourselves can only judge the religion by its followers.. And when some of those followers commit crimes in the name of Islam and take the life of another whilst shouting "Allah Akbar".. It makes me sad and can't help but wonder why do they use their religion thus..? What do they see in the Quran to justify their behaviour?

So when I see such behaviour it does rather seem that we have gone backwards in time.. Where stoning for adultery, public lashing and cutting off the hands of thieves may have been common practice but the fact that they may still have a place in a modern world shows a lack of spiritual enlightenment. I'm sorry but that how I see things.. Talking to muslims over the years has dispelled some of theses worries..but not all.

Religion has always been used for selfish evil people for their own ends.. There will always be people who seek to do bad whilst hiding behind God. The blessing is that God sees all and there is no hiding anywhere.

Peace may God hear your prayers and guide you.

Just the title of this thread concerns me. Notice it says love for the prophet. This singles out love for one prophet as a condition for faith. Now we now that without faith it is not possible to please God or do his will; my question is now is it not prophet association with God to have and believe a title like this thread? How is it not excess in religion? How is it not a form of man worship when one must love one dead prophet as a condition of their faith? How is it not excessive and over esteem for one to say a prophet who is no longer living is the best of people and better than human not a form of man worship and idolatry? I can understand and accept this title if it were referring to Jesus who as a prophet, king and priest claimed to be the son of God and whom God claimed to be His son and as a prophet who was dead and is now alive forevermore and who is coming back to judge the living and the dead, but for a dead prophet, I cannot understand the justification for the title of this thread. Satan is the accuser of the saints. Wouldn't it be just like him to accuse Christians through a people that are doing what they accuse true believers of doing?
Blessings

You need to upgrade your thinking

And as you see ladies and gentlmen , Burnlight is asking "Why do you love a great man ?!" . Does that make sense ?

Upgrade my thinking? why? Where I said "now you now" should be "now you know" Your comments show me that you have missed the point completely. Please read it again. There have been many great men in the world, but how can you love someone who is great that you have never personally interacted with? What kind of love is it you have? For instance, I love my wife and daughter, but how does one love a disciple of God or prophet that they have never met? Could it be confusion between love with worship? Does a person have to be great for you to love them. What about someone who is not great do you love them. I can love people I don't know by my actions and words toward them. Love is not an emotion, but how do I love a dead prophet who is not divine? How do you? Do you love the messenger Gabriel?

And you're telling me that you interacted with the Christ ?! What kind of reasoning is that ?! If this condition is right , we shouldn't love any of the prophets .


Let's be honest , you just want to argue for the sake of argument . You probably feel disturbed and angered when we demonstrate love of Islam and its prophet . That's why she told you to "upgrade" your thinking .

Yes, that's what Christianity is about. We interact with Christ Jesus who lives. Christianity is not about our religion it is about relationship with Christ or with God through Christ Jesus . To know Him is to have eternal life.

I am not going to tell you to upgrade your thinking, but I would say let Jesus upgrade your spirit.

If you think I am here trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, you don't know me, God or Jesus.

What I am trying to get you to realize is what you call love for your prophet is more than just love when you say he is the best of creatures or human beings, because all people are creatures of God by the will and word of God and equally special to God. I am also trying to get you to realize that God doesn't share His glory with another, and He is not a respecter of persons; so, why are you?

Maybe it does disturb me not to address that when you say your not committing idolatry and/or man worship, but your words and action tell a different story or that you believe Christians are the idolaters.

I just want to speak the truth as I see it of what is happening. I don't consider you or any Muslims the enemies. Satan is the enemy. I am just trying to expose his deception. Try to understand that I am not meaning to offend you personally or anyone on the forum although I know Christianity carries an offensive message first to the Jew. I just want to do battle with principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. We are in a spiritual battle for the souls or men; don't you realize this? I am not in this for my health or to give you a difficult time. I believe I fail my God if I don't speak the truth in love.

Blessings

I know your post is in response to Burninglights, but if I may I would seek some clarification on this last point of yours,

Do you feel this is the greatest deception of Satan .. To make people worship a human as God? If so what does Satan gain by this?

Also.. Who do you think is worshipping a human as God?

On a point of curiosity .. Did Allah command the angels to ~ Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis.. ~ . Iblis is satan is that so? Do you recognise Adam as the first human father of mankind? Why was Allah commanding angels to prostrate themselves to Adam in worship.?.. When we know all worship is for God alone.

From the the other side of the coin.. The greatest deception for satan is to steal souls from God and taking them for himself. Best way to do that is to turn them from the path of salvation God has decreed for them. As God has given man free will that door is open to anyone.

Peace

What is the difference? Why did Allah command the angels to prostrate to Adam? How do you know in your heart that it was not in the same spirit as you yourself prostrate to Allah today? Are these signs you speak of the reason why many muslims seek clarification on the Quran from scholars? I mean to make clear to them what maybe was not clear from just reading it for themselves. The more I read of the Quran the more complicated the message appears and I don't have an Islamic scholar to clear things up for me.. So I ask muslims. In your text above what inference am I to take from the words in [ ] am I to take it these words are added for clarification and not part of the original text?

Peace.

Satan's mission is to turn away as many people from believing the death and resurrection of Jesus is true. If he cannot convince people of that, he will try to get them to believe they need to produce good deeds and earn God's favor. When salvation cannot be earned it is God's gift given by meeting God on His terms. trying to earn eternal life will result in being severed from all that is called God our Creator.

As for the prostrating of angels, and since angels are higher than humans, I would like to ask you Muslims how is the prostrating you do five times a day different than the angels prostration before Adam? There is no way you can get non-Muslims to believe that prostration is not a form of worship. Many worship their prophet's. Mormons instance, don't admit it, but they worship their prophet Joseph Smith and put him before God.
We believe Jesus is the last Adam who we prostrate before. It is not man we worship it is the fullest of God in Him; it is the word of God incarnate. Jesus is not just an ordinary son of man He is the son of God; His virgin birth proves this is fact. Satan succeeds when he gets people to not realize this truth, and he get gets victory hurting God by stealing souls away from Him as they go down the pit.

grace and truth

lol.... :) no that's just silly... You know they are being polite and bowing is born from their tradition as an acceptable way to show their politeness. If I meet the Queen I would bow or curtesy out of respect... I don't worship her... Even though she is considered the head of the church of England!!! Her majesty would be most vexed if we worshipped her. :) :) it's not that hard to tell the difference. God certainly knows who worships Him alone in truth.

Peace.