You have not given us anything except your opinions and slanders to read, so nothing to form an opinion on. As I had not heard of Zacharia Butros I googled him and got my information from there. Very interesting man who stands by his beliefs which because they are diametrically opposed to your own you feel you have to resort to personal slanders.

How sad..you should know that when a person has to resort to making personal remarks to blacken a persons name you have already lost what argument .. Not to mention credibility you ever may have had.

Let me be honest , Pandora , if there is anything I despise most , it is farces .
Clearly , you watched NOTHING of the videos I put -which I translated by the way - or otherwise , how do you explain his sick and twisted lies to make hugging a man "gay" ? When someone says he would marry a girl when she is mature - ADULT - how can anyone say that the mentioned person craves children ? And that's why I despise Butros , because everything he says is a farce in a farce .
I can clearly say that you have no shame . What personal slanders are in the videos ? Sure , the one speaking mentions how perverted the mentality of Butros is , but HOW DARE YOU claim there is nothing refuting him ? The one who made the video opens EVERY SINGLE book and resource and shows you what really is in them unlike all these hateful missionaries who deceive you through claiming something and you clearly don't bother look it up .
That's what you should say about yourselves . Because of the huge amounts of shameful acts in your books from people you claim are prophets , you just have to corrupt the picture of the noblest of mankind , our prophet Muhammad all peace and blessings upon him .
So get off your high horse . I want you to watch ONLY the first video and then tell me "Was Butros lying or not ?" yes or on .

what videos? There were no links that worked to any videos that I could find..

Is this a joke ? Well then , if it's a technical problem then here it is :

With the greatest respect to yourself I was not joking there were no links in your first post. I found the link in your last post, and watched most of it. May I suggest to make it easier for the reader a different font be used? It's not easy to concentrate on the text especially as the angry voice of the narrator is talking so loud and fast.

i can imagine it must be difficult for any non Muslim to understand what Hadiths are strong, weak, true, false, reliable etc..or indeed any other Islamic works about your Prophet Mohammed..pbuh..it would seem you as muslims are slightly hampered having to explain always when some Muslim work says something that does not sit right with the acceptable face Islam wishes to portray..it's beholden on yourselves to refute such claims as unreliable etc..

Personally I don't mind either way, what or how you decide something is right or wrong. However I will say, and I feel very strongly about this. I do not think it is acceptable behaviour for anyone to engage in attempts to discredit and besmirch the religious beliefs or Holy Books of another. For the Jews their faith in God is strong and their books are true, same for me as a Christian with the Holy Bible, same for you as a muslim with the Holy Quran. Does it matter if we all follow the same God by a different path, we all answer to God at the end so it should not matter weather or not we agree on earth. We should at least I feel treat each other with the love and respect that is to the Glory of the God we all share. or do you really truly believe God would wish you to hate or dislike anyone because they hold a different viewpoint to your own? Ask yourself does that sound like the command of a Holy God?

OK . I didn't literally mean you were joking .
Suggestion taken .
I'd be more angry if I was him .
In case they don't know , then they shouldn't spam hate and "F" terms around the internet and the real world . They shouldn't lie and say "I studied Islam and I hate it" .
And hold on a second , who said that this story is weak and unauthorized ? It's very much correct and many scholars agreed . The problem is that Butros - with his sick mentality - took a wonderful , beautiful , merciful situation of the prophet peace upon him and turned it ugly because he himself is ugly .
Indeed , it gets annoying to explain to every single arrogant ignorant individual what the science of Hadith is . Especially that they think they're genius and know everything . But there have to be people telling the truth of God's religion .
Oh , you're COMPLETELY wrong ! Your faith , Jews' faith , and my faith all say that whoever doesn't accept them astray from the true path and deserves hell . Yes , you have the right to believe in whatever you want in this life . But not in the afterlife . God will ask every disbeliever why have they disbelieved the prophets he sent .
Secondly , what God are you talking about and we all worship as Muslims , Jews , and Christians ? The God who sleeps ? The God who fights Jacob and loses ? Or the three in one and all that ? I'll say it flat out , let's stop these farces . You're "Kafirah" to me and I am "Kafir" to you .
Respect is given to every respectful person . But we share nothing as I just said .
Oh yes , I should hate someone else for having a religion other than Islam . That however doesn't mean to treat them unjustly . The idea of "Love for all" makes no sense ? Or would you hate your enemy who's coming to kill you and give them flowers and bake cake for them ?!

Now , aside from all of that , you're trying to avoid admitting that Butros is a big fat liar . So stay on track .
1 - Did people really say this Hadith is unauthorized as he claimed ?
2 - Does hugging a man from behind go under the label of "Gay" ?
3 - Did he lie or not . Yes or no . Nothing else .

I do not know of Mr Butros so would not wish to call him a liar based on your say so. Given the tone of your post I do not see it would be beneficial to continue any kind of dialogue with you. Spread your poison if you wish it is of no concern to me. I'm sure your Prophet Mohammed pbuh would be very proud of your efforts...or maybe not.

peace to you.

And thus you see another example for the cowardice of Christians . Your problem isn't that you don't know about Butros . Your problem is that you take him as a holy figure which you don't want to discredit at any cost . My question was simple : Did he lie in this video or not ? And you simply shoved it aside thinking we won't see your cowardice .
Yet again , you ignore every important thing in my post and misquote things the same way you do with Islam . Good job working by the advice of Paul :
And now , let me get this straight , saying that we share nothing is a crime to you ? Really , I thought that only the Christians of Egypt have this insolence but it seems that it's in everyone like you around the world . And you still didn't answer : Would you love your enemy who's coming to kill you and burn down your city ? Would you REALLY turn your left cheek to the one who slapped you on the right considering that your bible says Jesus didn't work with his own advice ? The idea of "Love for all" is a myth . And I'll slam my head to the wall if 1% of Christians around the world work with it .
Then , you're angry because I called you "Kafirah" ? Read your book and then talk :
And then and as I said , you're working perfectly with the advice of Paul about lying . How come you failed to quote everything I said ? I said :
Lastly , I repeat the question which you keep running away from :

not only do I not know of Father Butros, I also do not view him as any sort of Holy figure I see no point in attempting to discredit him because you do that job far better than I. I will not give you the answer you seem to need so badly, because I doubt your reasons for wanting an answer, it smacks of the usual Muslim ego trip, so you can bask in the glory of your fellow muslims who will no doubt congratulate you on another hatchet job well done. I will refrain from adding to your arrogance, which is a sin before God. I am not a coward and do not fear you.

That you have the audacity to accuse me of misquoting you and in someway connect this with the quote of Romans 3:7 you wilfully misquote yourself is ironic..don't you think :)

if you see the verse in context you will find that verse in 7 Paul is quoting a hypothetical argument that someone might use in order to justify lying, having quoted this argument he then refutes it. There is no way in which, having read the quotation in context, you could honestly accuse Paul of deception by teaching Christians to tell falsehoods. This may be an honest mistake on your behalf because you do not understand the Bible or even wish to, and so are used to using verses out of context to suit your purpose.



"What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some did not have faith? Will there lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.'
But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? that God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, 'If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increase his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?' Why not say -- as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim we say -- 'Let us do evil that good may result'? Their condemnation is deserved." (Romans 3:1-8)




No not a crime, how ridiculous. No more than I would ask you to slam your head to the wall..:) but a good deal more than 1% of Christians live by the ideals you so despise, that of turning the left cheek and forgiving those who harm you. I am in effect turning the other cheek at this moment in replying to your post because it will no doubt result in further insults from your good self. :) I may dislike your actions but could never say I dislike you as a person because I know nothing about you. I will also forgive you for the harsh and cruel way you abuse the religions of others because I believe you do so out of ignorance, even though you may believe your motives be pure. My life on earth is only a preparation for what comes after, all my trials and tribulations count for little in the scheme of things. maybe that's why Christians on the whole do not have a problem with the forgiveness thing cos we see Gods judgement at the ends will be just...so I don't need to sweat the small stuff.

you quote from Dueteronomy (Old Testament) to seek to show Christ in the New Testament taught a divisive view of God. He did not, Christ brought a new covenant as Christians it is beholden on us to listen to his words..otherwise we would still be Jews..then of course Dueteronomy would have relevance, as you know much like muslims Jews seek to their own.

nothing to be said on this I feel. Cuts both ways don't you think..:)

i would never dream of expressing an opinion on Hadiths of which I know very little, and as already mentioned see little point in responding any further to a topic where any accommodation for each others views be reached.

Peace and Ramadan Mabrouk to you. may God hear your prayers.

Then you won't have a problem answering the question : Did he lie or not ?
A thief thinks everyone steals . You can doubt my reason as much as you like . The question is still on : Did he lie or not ? And let's assume that we do this for "Ego" - Look who's talking ! - then why is it so hard to answer ? Would they arrest you if you say Butros lied in this video ? do you fear getting struck by lightning ?
Back at you . And yes , you are cowering at such a simple question I and everyone ask you : Did he lie or not ?

That you have the audacity to accuse me of misquoting you and in someway connect this with the quote of Romans 3:7 you wilfully misquote yourself is ironic..don't you think :)

This is the full context :
Did I get wrong ? If so , then I'll admit . Unlike someone who fears admitting - not that they're wrong but - that someone else is wrong . And if you can read Arabic , I have a post asking "Did we misunderstand Paul saying that he's lying ?" And we came to a conclusion that it is unknown because a translation deems him guilty and another doesn't .
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t192903.html
I admitted I could be wrong . Now , do you have the nerve answer : Did he lie or not ?
Funny . We have an Arabic quote saying "رمتني بدائها و انسلت" meaning "She accuses me of having her disease and then slips away" . Nobody with a small portion of shame can see the video and not see how Butros twisted the meaning into something filthy to suit his dirty purpose . Again : Did he lie or not ?
Careful there ! You'd regret saying this . Now , I think Christians around the world are around 3 billions a little more or less . Do you really believe that 30 millions turn their left cheek to the one who slaps them ? Maybe you don't see those news of two arguing until one slaps the other and this other beats him half to death . I doubt that YOU would do the same . And get this straight , I don't despise forgiveness . The holy Quran tells us to be forgiving :
But there's a difference between forgiveness and letting people step on one's neck . If we forgive everyone for whatever they do , then so long for the human race ! And you still didn't answer : Would you love someone trying to kill you and burn your city down ?
Question : Isn't the God of the old testament the same as the God of the new testament ?
Are you trying to give me a headache . You have every single resource right in front of you . MY questions were simple :
1 - Did he lie or not ?
2 - Does hugging a man go under the label of "Gay"
3 - Didn't he say things DIFFERENT from what's in the books
That simple .