This is a very interesting article, but sadly misguided in its intention. Would you say that muslims who kill innocent people by terrorist acts which are against the teachings of the Quran are true muslims? Think carefully before you answer.

I as a Christian have no problem in saying that any person who promotes hatred and violence in any way towards another person is in their heart is NOT a Christian. God also knows this for a fact. :)

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

Islam renounce the killing of innocent people

What do you think war crusade.
Is the killing of innocent people in the name of religion or not?

this however does not prevent some muslims killing innocent people.

if you care too would you like to elucidate on "war crusade". Historical or present day?

Although whichever your choice as a Christian I would have to say any war or conflict in the name of God is wrong. Why would God wish us to fight each other in his name? No logical reason to suppose God would wish this. Whatever supposed justice we dispense to each other during our time on this earth counts for nothing as God is our ultimate judge. That's why I have no problem forgiving a person who has wronged me as I know that God will pass divine judgement upon them anyway if they have sinned, so there is no need for an eye for an eye justice, like you hurt me I hurt you back..it is so pointless. It can only ever escalate into violence and hate.

I do not defend any one contrary to the teachings of Islam

To see the principles of war in Islam and Christianity

But the Crusades were in accordance with the teachings of Jesus and lot killed behalf Cross

I will write a story about the Crusades and the Christian terrorism + directory

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Pandora.You are very good, I would love to be your girlfriend : 98 -:

On this point we have agreement as I do not defend anyone acting contrary to the teachings of Jesus.


On this point we do not agree. The Crusades were very much against the teachings of Jesus and of The Lord Our God. The Crusades were the actions of men, this is forever a stain on the history of the church. Although they may have believed their actions were justified to end hundreds of years of persecution of Christians by muslims, to reinstate the rights of Christians of safe pilgrimage to Jerusalem and their Holy shrines. At the moment they killed the first person they turned their backs on The teachings of Jesus and Our Lord God. They were in fact carrying out the work of the devil though they did not realise it.

Christians worldwide have sought to atone for this shameful episode from the past, but how long should a person be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors who lived in a world very different from the world we inhabit today? God tells us we are all responsible for our own sins, our ancestors have already been judged for theirs, is it right that Christians today should still be held accountable? You may find the following article of interest....I don't think it's from an infidel site ;)


During Ramadan 1996 the following two messages have been circulated among
Millions of Christians. They are a very good formulation of a true Christian
attitude towards the horrors and evil of the Crusades. Maybe these
statements can help in a small way that understanding and forgiveness can
grow. They definitely do reflect the true Christian and Biblical attitude,
though it is very sad, that still today, the name "Christian" religion is
abused for violence and power politics.

The Crusades


The 900th anniversary (1095-1099) of the dreadful events of the First Crusade
present Christ's followers with an opportunity to express deep remorse for the
past. We need to humbly ask for forgiveness for the blood that was shed in the
name of Christianity. As each Crusader wore the symbol of the Cross, we need to
recognize the great mistake which made the symbol of love for all men into a
sign of division, hate and extermination.


Jews, Eastern Christians and Muslims were all affected by the Crusades. Jews
were slaughtered in several places. Eastern Christians (Greek Orthodox and
others) were mistreated and humiliated by the Crusader armies, increasing the
divisions which already existed. Muslims were killed in great numbers,
encouraging centuries of deep hostility. Wars have been a major part of human
history, but religious wars in the name of Christ do not reflect the spirit of
the Gospel. Jesus said, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you. Do good to those who hate you, and bless those who curse you." (Luke
6:27-36)


Many Muslims have a much better memory of the Crusades than Christians. "It's
another Crusade!" is a phrase that recurs regularly in the rhetoric of some
Muslim leaders. Muslim fundamentalists frequently refer to western cultural and
economic influence as the last crusade.


On this first day of prayer during Ramadan 1996, let us reflect on the past and
ask the Lord to search our hearts concerning our present attitudes. Many of us
have ancestors who were involved in the Crusades. Many more of us are the
spiritual descendants of those who participated in and supported the Crusades.


While the past cannot be rewritten, each one of us can take a step toward laying
a new foundation for future generations. As Christians we can say that we are
sorry for the past. Let us pray for a healing of wounds between Jew, Christians
and Muslims. Through His death on the cross, Jesus made the way for us to have
forgiveness of sins, to be reconciled to the Father and to one another (2 Cor.
5:17-20). "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of
God." (Mt: 5:9).


============================================================ =================


Many Moslems' image of Christianity consists of the crusades and the degenerate
tourists and television reports from the supposedly Christian West. The
following report describes some initiatives and facts which accompany and will
in part initiate a new phase in contacts between Christians and Moslems:


Christians pray for Moslems during Ramadan
Millions of Christians will pray, and some fast, for Moslems from 21 January to
19 February 1996. Initially the idea of a few Christian leaders who met in the
Middle East to pray for the kingdom of God in that area of the 10/40 Window, the
practice is increasingly being adopted by other Christian churches and
movements. More information is available from your national Evangelical Alliance
or from a nearby Youth With A Mission centre or other mission agency.


The Reconciliation Walk in the footsteps of the crusaders
27 November 1995 was the 900th anniversary of Pope Urban II's awful call to
Western Christianity to march to free the Holy Land from the 'unbelievers'. An
initially eager troop, believing that they would prepare the way for the Messiah
by liberating Jerusalem, set off from Cologne. The crusading armies soon became
a pack of brutal plunderers destroying everything in their path. When they took
Jerusalem on 15 July 1099, they viciously murdered all the Jews and Moslems,
carrying a cross in one hand and a sword in the other - and Satan celebrated one
of his greatest triumphs: he had made the church sin in God's name.


That is history for the Western world - but not for the Middle East's Moslems.
For them, the crusades are still an open wound. For that reason, the
Reconciliation Walk was founded. The idea is to invite as many Christians as
possible to follow in the footsteps of the crusaders from Cologne to Jerusalem,
to ask and pray for reconciliation and forgiveness, and clean the historically
bad image of Christianity in a spirit of repentance.


Honestly, no offence intended, but don't bother yourself. Obviously your version is going to differ greatly from historical facts. The historical accounts already in existence are accurate enough for anyone interested. Unless you just want to hold a grudge match? It would seem no one quite bears a grudge like a Muslim. I think you do not have a good role model for forgiveness and have not heard the phrase draw a line and move on. :)

History ruthless

Christian learn the meaning of terrorism during the Crusades

You recognize it from the Crusades a religious war against others

You can not erase your black history

Honestly, no offence intended, but don't bother yourself. Obviously your version is going to differ greatly from historical facts. The historical accounts already in existence are accurate enough for anyone interested. Unless you just want to hold a grudge match? It would seem no one quite bears a grudge like a Muslim. I think you do not have a good role model for forgiveness and have not heard the phrase draw a line and move on. :)

You did not suffer from the Crusades

You can not force anyone to forgive. Damaged alone knows the amount of losses


The problem is that Christians accuse Islam with terrorism between them areterrorists

Christian history is full of blood

Now hold on a second . Pandora , you say that you wouldn't punish who harms you . Do you really believe that makes sense ? Rather , would you REALLY work with that rule ? If so,e guy barged into your house , stole your valuables , and burnt it - God forbids - would you really forgive him and let him go off the hook ?!

Yes it makes perfect sense, I will tell you of a personal experience, some years ago my husband was killed and I was badly injured in an accident caused by the careless actions of another person. This devastated my life, I made a recovery from my injuries but it took longer to deal with the loss of my husband, in fact I don't believe I ever will. I hated the person responsible, I blamed him and God forgive me, I wished him pain like I was feeling. He was charged and in due course was brought to trial, he was found guilty and sentenced to a time in custody. Many thought it was not long enough, it was at that point I realised the power of forgiveness and how it sets you free. By forgiving this person for the wrong he had done to me set me free to grieve and rebuild my life. I could have let my hate fester and lived an empty life filled with thoughts of revenge...but who would that have harmed? Ultimately myself. The person serving his sentence was not bothered if I forgave him or not, it would make no difference to his life, but it made a huge difference to mine.

I could forgive because I have the confidence in Gods justice and the knowledge that the person will pay for his sins at the end of his days. Christ taught us to forgive our enemies and those who sinned against us. Many people do not understand how an important gift this is and how it empowers a person. It may be a difficult thing to do, but ultimately it is far more rewarding than revenge. You can believe if you like that an "eye for an eye" justice is what Allah decreed...but ask yourself who really benefits from an act of vengeance? Christ taught that God wished us to forgive those who sinned against us, he taught this on Gods authority. Makes perfect sense to me.

neither can you yours...that's the thing with history one learns from the mistakes made and moves on...or not as the case may be.

what! and you did? Everyone suffered from the crusades and you are sure making us suffer for it even today. Forgiveness..forgiveness...forgiveness ....forgiveness..try it, it will set you free.

is that the problem? Are you saying that all the terrorists acts committed by muslims against the west are a result of the crusades over 900years ago!!!! If this is so my friend you have as they say been slipped a custard..who started the crusades? It took 460years of Muslim persecution of Christians in the Holy land before the crusades were called by Pope Urban 2nd. At the beginning of the fifth century, two hundred years before Muhammad appeared, there were seven-hundred Catholic bishops in Africa. Two hundred of them attended the Council of Carthage in 535 AD. By the middle of the 900s there were forty left. By 1050, as a result of 'peaceful coexistence,' there were only five left. In 1076 there were two. We learn this from a letter that Pope Gregory VII, 'Hildebrand,' wrote to Cyriacus, Archbishop of Carthage in June 1076. As three bishops are needed for the valid consecration of another bishop Gregory asked him to send a suitable priest to Rome who could be consecrated assistant bishop, so that he [Cyriacus] and Servandus, bishop of Buzea in Mauritania, and the new bishop could consecrate other bishops for the African Catholics. Did these Popes just disappear? When their churches were burnt and distroyed did they just peacefully move on..No they were killed...you know who by, part of your bloody history.

Your history like mine is full of blood. We cannot change that fact but we can make amends for it....that means forgiving each other for the past crimes of our collective ancestors, who I expect in the world and time they lived in felt they were doing the right thing. If we are to learn anything at all from history it should be when our ancestors get it wrong we should not be repeating the same mistakes. As I said already ...forgiveness sets you free. :)

Given to those who deserve forgiveness

There is still a crusade in Iraq and Afghanistan

Do you request the Crusaders from the mistakes of Muslims forgiveness?

No

Why?

It is the teachings of Jesus that you believe in

Do not fancy it,

Christianity is terrorism since yesterday, today and tomorrow

I guess we may be interpreting "Crusade" differently. I see a crusade ..as per 900 years ago based on religious differences. Do you really see Iraq and Afghanistan as a religious issue? Not political? Not for mans greed? Not for mans stupidity ?

[QUOTE]Do you request the Crusaders from the mistakes of Muslims forgiveness?[QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand your question here? Do you mean should the muslims apologise for their mistreatment Christians for the hundreds of years before the Crusades? Which is kind of why the Pope at the time called for a crusade...to protect his religious flock. I know how hard it is for muslims to A. Admit they may be in the wrong. B. to apologise to anyone who is not a Muslim. And C. To forgo any opportunity to appear as a victim of the cruel and evil west. So I would not be expecting any type of apology any time soon.

Yes it is and Jesus taught non violence, Jesus never fought in a war, Jesus never killed anyone. Jesus never forced anyone to follow his teachings ...Jesus taught God was love.

Peace.

That's funny

7- أخلاقيات الجهاد والحرب بين تعاليم محمد ويسوع:Morality of war

في صحيح مسلم : عَنْ ابْنِ عُمَرَ قَالَ : " وُجِدَتْ امْرَأَةٌ مَقْتُولَةً فِي بَعْضِ تِلْكَ الْمَغَازِي فَنَهَى رَسُولُ اللَّهِ عَنْ قَتْلِ النِّسَاءِ وَالصِّبْيَانِ ".

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.



سفر حزقيال إصحاح 9 عدد 6اَلشَّيْخَ وَالشَّابَّ وَالْعَذْرَاءَ وَالطِّفْلَ وَالنِّسَاءَ، اقْتُلُوا لِلْهَلاَكِ. وَلاَ تَقْرُبُوا مِنْ إِنْسَانٍ عَلَيْهِ السِّمَةُ، وَابْتَدِئُوا مِنْ مَقْدِسِي». فَابْتَدَأُوا بِالرِّجَالِ الشُّيُوخِ الَّذِينَ أَمَامَ الْبَيْتِ

Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.


- سفر صموئيل الأول إصحاح 15 عدد 3فَالآنَ اذْهَبْ وَاضْرِبْ عَمَالِيقَ، وَحَرِّمُوا كُلَّ مَا لَهُ وَلاَ تَعْفُ عَنْهُمْ بَلِ اقْتُلْ رَجُلاً وَامْرَأَةً، طِفْلاً وَرَضِيعًا، بَقَرًا وَغَنَمًا، جَمَلاً وَحِمَارًا».

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.


3- سفر هوشع إصحاح13 عدد16تُجَازَى السَّامِرَةُ لأَنَّهَا قَدْ تَمَرَّدَتْ عَلَى إِلهِهَا. بِالسَّيْفِ يَسْقُطُونَ. تُحَطَّمُ أَطْفَالُهُمْ، وَالْحَوَامِلُ تُشَقُّ.

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

سنن أبي داودَ برقم 2247 عن أَنَسِ بنِ مَالِكٍ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ قَالَ : " انْطَلِقُوا بِاسْمِ اللَّهِ وَبِاللَّهِ وَعَلَى مِلَّةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا شَيْخًا فَانِيًا وَلَا طِفْلًا وَلَا صَغِيرًا وَلَا امْرَأَةً وَلَا تَغُلُّوا وَضُمُّوا غَنَائِمَكُمْ وَأَصْلِحُوا وَأَحْسِنُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ ".

Narrated Anas ibn Malik:

The Prophet () said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well.



سفر التثنية إصحاح20 عدد 1أما مُدُنُ الشُّعُوبِ الَّتِي يَهَبُهَا الرَّبُّ إِلَهُكُمْ لَكُمْ مِيرَاثاً فَلاَ تَسْتَبْقُوا فِيهَا نَسَمَةً حَيَّةً، بَلْ دَمِّرُوهَا عَنْ بِكْرَةِ أَبِيهَا، كَمُدُنِ الْحِثِّيِّينَ وَالأَمُورِيِّينَ وَالْكَنْعَانِيِّينَ وَالْفِرِزِّيِّينَ وَالْحِوِّيِّينَ وَالْيَبُوسِيِّينَ كَمَا أَمَرَكُمُ الرَّبُّ إِلَهُكُمْ .

When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.


] لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ [ (الممتحنة 8 )

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

]وَقَاتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلَا تَعْتَدُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ (190) ) [البقرة).

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.



سفر التثنية إصحاح 20 عدد 13وَإِذَا دَفَعَهَا الرَّبُّ إِلهُكَ إِلَى يَدِكَ فَاضْرِبْ جَمِيعَ ذُكُورِهَا بِحَدِّ السَّيْفِ. 14وَأَمَّا النِّسَاءُ وَالأَطْفَالُ وَالْبَهَائِمُ وَكُلُّ مَا فِي الْمَدِينَةِ، كُلُّ غَنِيمَتِهَا، فَتَغْتَنِمُهَا لِنَفْسِكَ، وَتَأْكُلُ غَنِيمَةَ أَعْدَائِكَ الَّتِي أَعْطَاكَ الرَّبُّ إِلهُكَ.

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:


But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given
thee


137: 9 طوبى لمن يمسك اطفالك و يضرب بهم الصخرة

137:9 How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies
and smashes them on a rock! 12



سفر حزقيال
9: 5 و قال لاولئك في سمعي اعبروا في المدينة وراءه و اضربوا لا تشفق اعينكم و لا تعفوا

9: 6 الشيخ و الشاب و العذراء و الطفل و النساء اقتلوا للهلاك و لا تقربوا من انسان عليه السمة و ابتدئوا من مقدسي فابتداوا بالرجال الشيوخ الذين امام البيت

9:5 While I listened, he said to the others, 9 “Go through the city after him and strike people down; do no let your eye pity nor spare 10 anyone! 9:6 Old men, young men, young women, little children, and women – wipe them out! But do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary!” So they began with the elders who were at the front of the temple.



يشوع 6: 24 و احرقوا المدينة بالنار مع كل ما بها انما الفضة و الذهب و انية النحاس و الحديد جعلوها في خزانة بيت الرب
Joshua
6:24 But they burned 42 the city and all that was in it, except for the silver, gold, and bronze and iron items they put in the treasury of the Lord’s house. 43



سفر يشوع
8: 1 فقال الرب ليشوع لا تخف و لا ترتعب خذ معك جميع رجال الحرب و قم اصعد الى عاي انظر قد دفعت بيدك ملك عاي و شعبه و مدينته و ارضه

8: 2 فتفعل بعاي و ملكها كما فعلت باريحا و ملكها غير ان غنيمتها و بهائمها تنهبونها لنفوسكم اجعل كمينا للمدينة من ورائها
Joshua
8:1 The Lord told Joshua, “Don’t be afraid and don’t panic! 1 Take the whole army with you and march against Ai! 2 See, I am handing over to you 3 the king of Ai, along with his people, city, and land. 8:2 Do to Ai and its king what you did to Jericho 4 and its king, except you may plunder its goods and cattle. Set an ambush behind the city!”



سفر يشوع
8: 28 و احرق يشوع عاي و جعلها تلا ابديا خرابا الى هذا اليوم

8: 29 و ملك عاي علقه على الخشبة الى وقت المساء و عند غروب الشمس امر يشوع فانزلوا جثته عن الخشبة و طرحوها عند مدخل باب المدينة و اقاموا عليها رجمة حجارة عظيمة الى هذا اليوم
Joshua

8:28 Joshua burned Ai and made it a permanently uninhabited mound (it remains that way to this very day). 46 8:29 He hung the king of Ai on a tree, leaving him exposed until evening. 47 At sunset Joshua ordered that his corpse be taken down from the tree. 48 They threw it down at the entrance of the city gate and erected over it a large pile of stones (it remains to this very day). 49


سفر يشوع
10: 40 فضرب يشوع كل ارض الجبل و الجنوب و السهل و السفوح و كل ملوكها لم يبق شاردا بل حرم كل نسمة كما امر الرب اله اسرائيل
Joshua
10:40 Joshua defeated the whole land, including the hill country, the Negev, the lowlands, 66 the slopes, and all their kings. He left no survivors. He annihilated everything that breathed, just as the Lord God of Israel had commanded.

سفر التثنية
7: 1 متى اتى بك الرب الهك الى الارض التي انت داخل اليها لتمتلكها و طرد شعوبا كثيرة من امامك الحثيين و الجرجاشيين و الاموريين و الكنعانيين و الفرزيين و الحويين و
اليبوسيين سبع شعوب اكثر و اعظم منك

7: 2 و دفعهم الرب الهك امامك و ضربتهم فانك تحرمهم لا تقطع لهم عهدا و لا تشفق عليهم
Deuteronomy 7
7:1 When the Lord your God brings you to the land that you are going to occupy and forces out many nations before you – Hittites,1 Girgashites,2 Amorites,3Canaanites,4 Perizzites,5 Hivites,6 and Jebusites,7 seven8 nations more numerous and powerful than you – 7:2 and he9 delivers them over to you and you attack them, you must utterly annihilate10 them. Make no treaty11 with them and show them no mercy!

سفر التثنية
9: 4 لا تقل في قلبك حين ينفيهم الرب الهك من امامك قائلا لاجل بري ادخلني الرب لامتلك هذه الارض و لاجل اثم هؤلاء الشعوب يطردهم الرب من امامك

9: 5 ليس لاجل برك و عدالة قلبك تدخل لتمتلك ارضهم بل لاجل اثم اولئك الشعوب يطردهم الرب الهك من امامك و لكي يفي بالكلام الذي اقسم الرب عليه لابائك ابراهيم و اسحق و يعقوب

9: 6 فاعلم انه ليس لاجل برك يعطيك الرب الهك هذه الارض الجيدة لتمتلكها لانك شعب صلب الرقبة
Deuteronomy 9
9:4 Do not think to yourself after the Lord your God has driven them out before you, “Because of my own righteousness the Lord has brought me here to possess this land.” It is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is driving them out ahead of you. 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness, or even your inner uprightness,5 that you have come here to possess their land. Instead, because of the wickedness of these nations the Lord your God is driving them out ahead of you in order to confirm the promise he6 made on oath to your ancestors,7 to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 9:6 Understand, therefore, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is about to give you this good land as a possession, for you are a stubborn8 people!

يشـوع 6: 21 و حرموا كل ما في المدينة من رجل و امراة من طفل و شيخ حتى البقر و الغنم و الحمير بحد السيف

6:21 They annihilated with the sword everything that breathed in the city, 38including men and women, young and old, as well as cattle, sheep, and donkeys.

https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t195515.html#post574451

why is it funny?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or actually do not understand the difference between the Old and New Testament.? Not one example in your above tirade contains the teachings of Christ. If you are trying to compare the teachings of Mohammed and Jesus..don't you think you should have actually included the teachings of Jeus rather than the Old Testament Prophets. Is it because you know Mohammed teachings will not compare favourably to Jesus on so many points? Mohammed as a man would not compare favourably to Jesus as a man? Are you scared of a fair comparison?

Im expecting this post to end up on your cutting room floor like any other you personally do not like ;) have you heard of freedom of speech???