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MrsClaus92

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  • #1

    MrsClaus92

    MrsClaus92

    את עכשיו מסתדרת , נו תתחילי לדון בעברית או באנגלית , אבל עדיף באנגלית .
    תרשמי את השאלות שלך ובעזרת השם יענו לך חברי הפורום הנכבדים .

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    ستبدأ الأخت بطرح الاسئلة والتعريف بنفسها رجاء لمن يجيد الانجليزية بالحوار معها .
    الكلمات الدلالية (Tags): mrsclaus92
  • #2
    ok, I can't read anything in this website so I feel a little blindfolded... but I'll trust my new friend Dalia and say my peace.
    Dalia came onto a website of Qaraim and we began a discussion there as to whether or not the Torah holds prophecies about Islam...
    Qaraim is the original form of Judaism... before the holy book was contaminated by Greek influences, the people of Israel were all Qaraim i.e., if it sounds similar to the word Quran it is because it means the same thing... Quran means the thing to be read, right? (forgive my bad arabic...) Qaraim means- the readers... same root of the word- Q.R.A..

    so I will debate in favor of Judaism, and I invite you to debate against me for Islam... let's pray to "the El" (in arabic "Allah, correct) to give us wisdom to decipher his will.
    your sister
    Mrs. Claus

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    • #3
      Welcome Mrs Claus
      It is a pleasure to discuss this issue with you in the forum
      Just to be sure you are a Jewish not a Christian
      ?
      ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
      ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

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      • #4
        In The Name Of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful

        ok, I can't read anything in this website so I feel a little blindfolded... but I'll trust my new friend Dalia and say my peace.
        Visit the link
        https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/f60

        end

        https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/f96

        Qaraim is the original form of Judaism... before the holy book was contaminated by Greek influences, the people of Israel were all Qaraim i.e., if it sounds similar to the word Quran it is because it means the same thing... Quran means the thing to be read, right? (forgive my bad arabic...) Qaraim means- the readers... same root of the word- Q.R.A..
        Muslims believe that the Bible is from
        allah, and also believes that the typeface





        عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس , قَالَ : جَاءَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَرَافِع بْن حَارِثَة , وَسَلَّام بْن مِشْكَم , وَمَالِك بْن الصَّيْف , وَرَافِع بْن حُرَيْمِلَة , فَقَالُوا : يَا مُحَمَّد أَلَسْت تَزْعُم أَنَّك عَلَى مِلَّة إِبْرَاهِيم وَدِينه , وَتُؤْمِن بِمَا عِنْدنَا مِنْ التَّوْرَاة , وَتَشْهَد أَنَّهَا مِنْ اللَّه حَقّ ؟ فَقَالَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ " بَلَى , وَلَكِنَّكُمْ أَحْدَثْتُمْ وَجَحَدْتُمْ مَا فِيهَا مِمَّا أُخِذَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ الْمِيثَاق , وَكَتَمْتُمْ مِنْهَا مَا أُمِرْتُمْ أَنْ تُبَيِّنُوهُ لِلنَّاسِ , وَأَنَا بَرِيءٌ مِنْ أَحْدَاثكُمْ ! " قَالُوا : فَإِنَّا نَأْخُذ بِمَا فِي أَيْدِينَا, فَإِنَّا عَلَى الْحَقّ وَالْهُدَى , وَلَا نُؤْمِن بِك وَلَا نَتَّبِعك


        Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and Rafi b. Haritha, and Sallam b. Mishkam and Malik b. al-Sayf and Rafi b. Huraymila and they (the Jews) said to them: O Muhammad, do you not allege that you follow the way of Abraham and his religion, and believe in what we have from the Torah and testify that it is the truth from Allah? The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him replied: Yes, however you have innovated and broken the covenant contained therein and concealed what you were ordered to make clear to people, and I dissociate myself from your innovations. They said, 'We hold by what we have. We live according to the guidance and the truth and we do not believe in you and we will not follow you.


        so I will debate in favor of Judaism, and I invite you to debate against me for Islam... let's pray to "the El" (in arabic "Allah, correct) to give us wisdom to decipher his will.

        We welcome all questions about great Islam



        Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is best aware of those who go aright. (125)

        Question:
        Why do you defend on Judaism, do belong to Israel!
        التعديل الأخير تم بواسطة فداء الرسول; الساعة 29-11-2012, 14:22.

        تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
        اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

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        • #5
          بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

          السلام عليكم ورحمة الله

          مرحبا بالضيفة الكريمة !

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          • #6
            Mrs Claus
            If we say that Islam is the international version of Judaism
            What do you think about this sentence
            ?
            ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
            ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

            تعليق

            • #7
              ok, thank you Dalia for translating for me which button is the "reply" one...
              3abd- my religion should not matter for the sake of the argument, because I don't speak on behalf of my religion but on behalf of myself alone.
              nevertheless, since you asked, I will tell my background:
              I was born a jew in Israel. my mother is an orthodox jew, my grandfather (her father) was an esteemed Rabbi and there is even a synagogue built to commemorate his name.
              my father is an Atheist
              my husband is a Christian. I left Israel when I married him and we live in Kansas, U.S.A.
              I don't consider myself religious at all. (meaning I have no religion) however I do consider myself a religion scholar.
              I studied Judaism in Bar Ilan university in Israel and I studied for a second degree in Pittsburg State University in Kansas. as part of that degree I studied World's Religions which includes Hinduism, Budhism, Zoroastrianism, Daoism, Judaism Christianity Islam and Mormonism.
              I also took classes on the history of the church (i.e. the emergence of Christianity to the Reformation)
              could Islam be the international form of Judaism? well, that is what we came to explore, no?
              in the Qaraim forum Dalia started a thread with the question what is the meaning of the verse: "נָבִיא אָקִים לָהֶם מִקֶּרֶב אֲחֵיהֶם, כָּמוֹךָ; וְנָתַתִּי דְבָרַי, בְּפִיו, וְדִבֶּר אֲלֵיהֶם, אֵת כָּל-אֲשֶׁר אֲצַוֶּנּוּ" .
              she suggested that
              מקרב אחיהם
              refers to Isaac's brother Ishmael. she also quoted: "וְזֹאת הַבְּרָכָה, אֲשֶׁר בֵּרַךְ מֹשֶׁה אִישׁ הָאֱלֹהִים--אֶת-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: לִפְנֵי, מוֹתוֹ. ב וַיֹּאמַר, יְהוָה מִסִּינַי בָּא וְזָרַח מִשֵּׂעִיר לָמוֹ--הוֹפִיעַ מֵהַר פָּארָן, וְאָתָה מֵרִבְבֹת קֹדֶשׁ; מִימִינוֹ, אשדת (אֵשׁ דָּת) לָמוֹ"
              saying that Mt. Pa'aran is Mecca therefore the scripture refers to the emergence of Islam from Mecca
              she also quoted: "יֵּשֶׁב, בְּמִדְבַּר פָּארָן; וַתִּקַּח-לוֹ אִמּוֹ אִשָּׁה, מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם."
              from which she deducts that the people living in Mecca are descendents of Ishmael (supported by Hadith, Quran, and Sunah, according to her)
              lastly, Dalia quoted: "לְיִשְׁמָעֵאל, שְׁמַעְתִּיךָ--הִנֵּה בֵּרַכְתִּי אֹתוֹ וְהִפְרֵיתִי אֹתוֹ וְהִרְבֵּיתִי אֹתוֹ, בִּמְאֹד מְאֹד: שְׁנֵים-עָשָׂר נְשִׂיאִם יוֹלִיד, וּנְתַתִּיו לְגוֹי גָּדוֹל. "
              and explained that God blessing to Ishmael is basically giving him the ability to tell prophecy, which was given down to his descendants from him.
              to start the discussion here, do you agree with her interpretation of the scriptures so far?

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              • #8
                المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة سمـاح مشاهدة المشاركة
                MrsClaus92

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                • #9
                  Mrs Claus if you want evidence that Paran is Mecca,I can so simply paste for you ancient maps showing that Paran is Mecca
                  and Alhijaz
                  Please when you write hebrew verses from the old testament , please paste also their English translation and mention their exact location in the Bible
                  But I just would like to mention one point before discussing whether Prophet Muhammed PBUH is mentioned or not in the OT
                  ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
                  ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

                  تعليق

                  • #10
                    What I meant by saying Islam is the international version of judaism is that both Islam and Judaism are similar to each other
                    The faith in both religions is almost identical, the cornerstone of faith in both religions is the absolute oneness of God and in both religions it is believed that God sent prophets to mankind and inspired to them scriptures
                    Both religions are different from christianity, because christians believe in trinity
                    Moreover, there are many other aspects of similarity between Islam and Judaism, both muslims and Jews have a law in their religion, there is some kindof similarity between prayers in islam and Judaism
                    But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide
                    Muslims believe that islam is the last religion and that it is a religion for the whole humanity, there are 1.5 billion muslims today
                    This is what I meant by islam is the international version of judaism
                    So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam
                    ?
                    Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God
                    ?
                    If the faith of absolute oneness of God in both Judaism and Islam is the true faith
                    Which religion should I believe to be the religion that God wants us to believe in
                    ?
                    A religion with 12 million followers or a worldwide religion with 1.5 billion followers?

                    Hope you are able to understand my idea
                    Waiting for your comment to proceed to whether Prophet Muhamed Pbuh is prophecized or not in the jewish scriptures and if you would like we can even discuss the christian scriptures
                    ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
                    ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

                    تعليق

                    • #11
                      Dear All

                      Assalamu Alaikom

                      I would like to welcome Mrs Claus92 and wish her a
                      useful time here .


                      I pray to Allah that HE guides her to the right path - Amen

                      I thought it may be useful to refer Mrs Claus92 to this useful book which I believe will make things clearer for her to debate on solid grounds and information

                      W 200+ ways the Quran Corrects the Bible: How Islam Unites Judaism and Christianity

                      https://www.ebnmaryam.com/web/modules...cat=7&book=407

                      Enjoy exchanging information while I follow

                      Regards

                      تعليق

                      • #12
                        Where are you Mrs Claus? Hope that you are ok


                        ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
                        ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

                        تعليق

                        • #13
                          "The faith in both religions is almost identical, the cornerstone of faith in both religions is the absolute oneness of God"
                          Judaism and Islam are not the only 2 religions believing in the one God that is all good that sends prophets... take Zoroastrianism for instance... would you say that Islam is the international version of Zoroastrianism?
                          "Christians believe in trinity"
                          actually, Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, and they are not considered Christians by all other denominations (Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutherans etc.)
                          What would you say of Jehovah's witness for instance?
                          "But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide"
                          actually, Jews believe God created all humanity and we are all descendants of Noah. God commanded Noah's sons with only 7 commandments; therefore any human observing these 7 commandments will go to heaven. Jews, however, were set apart from the rest of mankind because God wanted to prove his power through preserving the smallest, most powerless nation of those days, throughout history. all the great empires have fallen but the ancient jews survived. had you told the great Assyrians of the Acadians etc. that the jews will survive to the 20th century while all empires will disappear- it would have been as if you would have told them that water will turn into blood. It's a miracle because it is so inpossible and it is reason God chose the jews: "                          The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people but for ye were the fewest of all peoples"
                          Deuteronomy 7:7
                          Jews cannot convert others into their own religion and are not commanded to, so their chances of survival are even smaller. On the other hand it makes Judaism very peaceful- all holy wars in the world were conducted by Catholics or Muslims, trying to convert the whole world into their religion, murdering, imprisoning, torturing others, but Judaism continued to exist through it all without forcing one man to convert to Judaism.
                          "So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam?"
                          Because then they will not be jews any more. They will be Muslims. If that were to happen Jews will be extinct and God will be made a liar who canot prove his existence through preserving his people through history.
                          "Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God"
                          God gave signs to distinguish between a true prophet and a false one. He said he will send false prophets to test us, and that they will perform miracles etc. but they will persuade us to believe in a different religion and that is how we shoud know they are false: "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
                          Deduteronomy 13:2-4

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                          • #14
                            المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة MrsClaus92 مشاهدة المشاركة
                            "The faith in both religions is almost identical, the cornerstone of faith in both religions is the absolute oneness of God"

                            Judaism and Islam are not the only 2 religions believing in the one God that is all good that sends prophets... take Zoroastrianism for instance... would you say that Islam is the international version of Zoroastrianism?


                            Yes, I would say so
                            According to islam, we believe that there is one God who sent many prophets, at least a prophet to every nation according to the Holy Quran
                            The first thing that every prophet said to his nation :There is only one God, so worhip him and don't worship any other gods with him
                            In the Holy Quran, God told us about the stories of some of the prophets, others we were informed nothing about them
                            Since Zoroastrianism teaches that there is only one God whose name is Ahura Mazda according to this religion and since Zoroaster taught the people that there is only one God, I think that he may be one of the prophets whom we were informed nothing about
                            According to islamic belief,every prophet was sent all to his nation except prophet Muhamed Pbuh who is the last prophet and who is sent to whole mankind
                            This is why I agree that islam is the international version of Zoroastrianism and any other religion teaching that there is only one God

                            "Christians believe in trinity"
                            actually, Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, and they are not considered Christians by all other denominations (Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutherans etc.)
                            What would you say of Jehovah's witness for instance



                            Surely most of the christians believe in trinity
                            Although Jehovah's witness don't believe in the trinity ,they still believe that Jesus is the son of God
                            According to islam and Judaism , God has no son in the sense that Jesus is the son of God according to christian faith even the faith of Jehova's witness
                            So still their faith is different from Judaism and Islam

                            "But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide"
                            actually, Jews believe God created all humanity and we are all descendants of Noah. God commanded Noah's sons with only 7 commandments; therefore any human observing these 7 commandments will go to heaven. Jews, however, were set apart from the rest of mankind because God wanted to prove his power through preserving the smallest, most powerless nation of those days, throughout history. all the great empires have fallen but the ancient jews survived. had you told the great Assyrians of the Acadians etc. that the jews will survive to the 20th century while all empires will disappear- it would have been as if you would have told them that water will turn into blood. It's a miracle because it is so inpossible and it is reason God chose the jews: "The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people but for ye were the fewest of all peoples"

                            Deuteronomy 7:7


                            Jews cannot convert others into their own religion and are not commanded to, so their chances of survival are even smaller.
                            Well , can you tell me what are these 7 commandments
                            ؟
                            Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
                            Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
                            This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble
                            If you are taking the long survival of the jews as an evidence to prove that your religion is true, both christians and muslims can do the same
                            A christian can say that the Romans who used to kill the early christians would never have imagined that after 2000 years there will be about 2 billion christians all over the world
                            As a muslim, I can say that the unbelievers from Quraysh, the tribe of prophet Muhamed Pbuh, would never have imagined that after 1400 years muslims will become 1.5 billion all over the world
                            So I think that what you are saying about the long survival of Jews can't possibly be evidence that judaism is true and that you should not believe in Islam
                            On the other hand it makes Judaism very
                            peaceful- all holy wars in the world were conducted by Catholics or Muslims, trying to convert the whole world into their religion, murdering, imprisoning, torturing others, but Judaism continued to exist through it all without forcing one man to convert to Judaism.

                            "
                            I think you are kidding
                            Don't you know anything about the battles of Moses, Joshua and David
                            ?
                            Here is the battle plan according to judaism
                            Let's read from Deutromony 20

                            10 When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
                            11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that are found therein shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee.
                            12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
                            13 and when Jehovah thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
                            14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which Jehovah thy God hath given thee.
                            15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
                            16 But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth;
                            17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;
                            18 that they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so would ye sin against
                            Jehovah your God.

                            You can find a comparision between the rules of battle in Isalm and Judaism at this link
                            :
                            https://norasensation.wordpress.com/2...dren%E2%80%9D/


                            So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam?"

                            Because then they will not be jews any more. They will be Muslims. If that were to happen Jews will be extinct and God will be made a liar who canot prove his existence through preserving his people through history.
                            So if prophet Muhamed Pbuh is a true messenger from God, you are not allowed to believe in him and you must believe that he is a liar and if the Quran is really from God you must believe that it's man made, so that Jews survive
                            ?
                            Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews so that he preserve his people through history
                            ?
                            Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims
                            I think you must be joking

                            "Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God"

                            God gave signs to distinguish between a true prophet and a false one. He said he will send false prophets to test us, and that they will perform miracles etc. but they will persuade us to believe in a different religion and that is how we shoud know they are false: "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."


                            Deduteronomy 13:2-4


                            According to what you quoted from the bible,prophet Muhamed is surely a true prophet because prophet Muhamed Pbuh taught us to worship one God ,the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus
                            The Holy Quran even states that our God (our refers to muslims) and your God(your refers to jews and christians) is the same God
                            Let's read from the Holy Quran
                            :
                            And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender. S. 29:46 Pickthall

                            So Prophet Muhamed Pbuh never said : let's go after other gods, but he taught us to worship your God, the God of Abraham and Moses

                            Another evidence from your scriptures that we can use to prove that prophet Muhamed Pbuh is really a messenger of God is in Deutromony 18
                            :
                            21 And if thou say in thy heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken?
                            22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

                            So we can simply see whether the prophecies of prophet Muhamed Pbuh really happened or not
                            ?
                            If they have really happened, you must believe that he is a true prophet according to your scriptures

                            Would you like us to have a look at some of the prophecies of prophet Muhamed Pbuh to see whether he is a true prophet or not
                            ?
                            ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
                            ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

                            تعليق

                            • #15
                              How could Islam be a direct continuous of all religions claiming there is but one God, when they say different things? Zoroastrianism claims God created the world but he did not create Satan (how could he create evil if he is all good…)
                              Satan created demons and witches and monsters to destroy the creation of God…
                              Zoroastrianism says God created one human being, and after he died and was buried, a plant grew out of his bones and Adam and Eve grew out of that plant…
                              You are still incorrect saying that most Christians believe in the trinity. Christians believe in God and believe Jesus is his son born of a mortal woman, Jesus refers to himself as the "Son of Man" in the New Testament. Christians believe he is the suffering Messiah and that he is one with God, in the same way that one man has both a body and a torso – one God is the holy spirit and Jesus. There's actually a lot of evidence to support that belief- in Genesis 1, God is a spirit, hovering over the water (Gen 1:2), but the spirit of God can "wear" people, just like you can put on clothes… (Judges 6:34 for example) and God shows up in human form even in Genesis- Adam and Eve hear him WALKING in the garden- not hovering… Jacob is described wrestling with A MAN- that has thighs, head, body, feet, toes… yet he calls that place "The face of God" (Hebrew PneiEl) and explains: "for I have seen God face to face" and just think of it, God created man in his image… so what would God's image be??? Only Christians believe in 3 gods as in the sense of the holy trinity, and some Christians don't even believe Jesus is divine.
                              So… Jehovah's witness believe and preach the faith in one God only, but Islam is not the international version of Jehovah's witness because Jehovah's witness say something that isn't in line with Islam- i.e. that Jesus is God's son. So how is Islam in line with Zoroastrianism or any other monotheistic religion if they say things that are not in line with Islam, for example, that Satan created the Genies, rather than that Allah created them from fire?
                              According to Quran, Abraham did not place Isaac on the alter but rather, it was Ishmael (since Isaac wasn't born yet)- it is not in line with Judaism, so how is it an international version of Judaism?
                              In Judaism, God promises to punish the wicked of his people, but never to utterly abandon them, never to stop being their God, even if they break their covenant with him- he will remember his everlasting covenant with them- how is that in line with Islam claiming God deserted the Jews for their iniquities???
                              The 7 commandments of the sons of Noah are:
                              Prohibition of Idolatry
                              Prohibition of Murder
                              Prohibition of Theft
                              Prohibition of Sexual immorality
                              Prohibition of Blasphemy
                              Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it was still alive
                              Establishment of courts of law
                              If you keep them, then you shall go to heaven, but if a Jew will convert to Islam and adhere to these commandments, he will not go to heaven but be punished… why? Because the Jews were commanded by many more commandments, such as observing Passover and the Day of Atonement, not lighting a fire on the Sabbath, teaching their sons about the Exodus, respecting their parents, not eating the fruits of a tree the first 7 years, not charging interest on loans etc… so a jew will be in a lot of trouble if he converts from Judaism J
                              "Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
                              Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
                              This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble"
                              you said Islam is the international version of Judaism… kind of a "Judaism for the masses"… if a person is already a jew, already believes in one God and one God only, why- according to Islam- would he need to convert to Islam? قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ كَلِمَةٍ سَوَاءٍ بَيْنَنَاوَبَيْنَكُمْ أَلَّانَعْبُدَ إِلَّا اللَّهَ وَلَا نُشْرِكَ بِهِ شَيْئًا
                              وَلَا يَتَّخِذَبَعْضُنَا بَعْضًا أَرْبَابًا مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَقُولُوااشْهَدُوا بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ ﴿٦٤﴾
                              Jews believe in god, they just don't accept Allah as his messenger. So if according to your belief, Jews will go to heaven if they believe in one God, so I as a jew may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true,meanwhile, according to my religion I would be in great trouble and I will never be to heaven if I believe in Islam.
                              This means that I have to be very careful when taking the decision of believing in Islam, because if my decision is wrong I will be in great trouble…
                              Christians and Muslims have been around for a very short time in comparison, the only other religion that exists since the days of the bible is Paganism in Eastern Asia. Christianity and Islam grew into a world embracing empires in the same way that Catholicism dominated the earth during the dark ages. Catholicism is now reduced to dominating the Vatican state- a state in the size of 500 square meters. Yes, meters, not even kilometers… other great empires have risen and fallen too. Where is the Greek empire and its Helenism? Where is the Roman empire today? The Ottoman empire? Alexander the great? What happened to the huge MedoPersian empire? What happened to Napoleon? The Holy Roman Empire of Charles V that dominated nearly the entire world? they were all like flames that grew high and fast then burned out and disappeared, it is therefore reasonable to deduct that the Christian denominations and Islam will die out just as Jesus and Muhammad died. Judaism, however, neither grew nor shrunk, it remains constant throughout time, Judaism lives on as long as God is alive because it does not lean on the credibility of a person- Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith etc, but on the mere existence of a deity. Any prophet can be voted a liar and Judaism will remain standing still because it bares no effect on the question of whether God exists or not. But if I prove to you that Muhammad was delusional- either possessed or mentally unstable, Islam will be crushed. If I find the decomposing body of Jesus- Christianity will go out the window, but no truth or discovery can destroy Judaism. Therefore the survival of the jews serves as proof to the existence of that deity, i.e. God. Not as evidence to the legitimacy of this prophet or another. In other words, Jews exists proves God exists, if Jews were to convert to Islam there would be no Jews. If Jews don't exist it is proof God doesn't exist either.
                              Moses Joshua and David never fought to coerce people to abandon their gods nor their beliefs. They fought to conquer a land- the legitimate and only way to acquire land until the middle of the 19th century… conquering land is not a religious crusade, it’s a fight for limited resources. Nevertheless the jews never aspired to conquer all the lnd in the world and claim it their empire… even politically speaking it is a peaceful nation. The jewish nation saught only one small state for their nomad tribes to settle down in. Jews respect other nations' rights to a land of their own just as they stand firm in their own right to the same: Deuteronomy 2: God commands the Jews not to try to conquer mount Seir- for it is a land belonging to the children of Esau. Not to try to conquer the Moab desert, because it is a land belonging to the children of Lot and so on. The Jews only fought for a small land for themselves, they keep out of other people's business, land and faith. It is the only live and let live monotheistic religion in the world.
                              "So if prophet Muhamed Pbuh is a true messenger from God, you are not allowed to believe in him and you must believe that he is a liar and if the Quran is really from God you must believe that it's man made, so that Jews survive"
                              If Muhammad was a true prophet jews would have accepted him, as they did Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah and so so many others… but Muhammad is not a true prophet therefore he was rejected.
                              "But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." (Deuteronomy 18:20)
                              Here you have 2 ways to spot a false prophet: a person who either delivers a message that does not come from God or speaks in the names of false gods must be a false prophet. But this means that Muhammad was a false prophet, since he did both when he delivered the "Satanic Verses."… on at least this one occasion, Muhammad preached the word of Satan, which was in line with his own desires, at the same time claiming it was the word of God- though God never commanded him to speak it…
                              "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken."
                              ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)
                              Do you expect God's people to please Him by believing in a false prophet, or do you believe that genuine prophets can indeed deliver false revelations and speak in the names of false gods (in this case- Satan)
                              Why didn't the Muslims accept Sabbatai Zevi? What's good for the Muslims is not good for the jews?

                              if there were solid reasons to conclude that Muhammad was a reliable messenger of God, the Jews would have probably suppose that Islam is true. However, if there are strong reasons to question Muhammad’s trustworthiness, would you then reject his teachings?
                              What if I told you there is a good reason to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence?
                              The earliest Muslim writings and traditions, including the Qur’an, Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, the Sahih Al-Bukhari, and the Sahih Muslim, provide abundant warrant for rejecting Muhammad as a prophet. All these are primary source documents and they show that Muhammad was often violent and ruthless towards those who insulted him (not God, but him himself...) that he received revelations allowing him to transgress other revelations in the Qur’an, (prophecy expired? Or double standards?) that he felt contempt towards women, that was slave trading, that he permitted violence towards women, and that one of his sexual partners was a nine-year-old child. Muhammad declared that lying is acceptable if it is used to make peace… doesn't it make you wonder how often he lied while preaching his message, for the sake of creating peace and uniting Christians, Jews and Pagans?
                              In addition to all this, there are reasons to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence. The evidence from the earliest accounts of his life shows that he may have been psychologically or spiritually unstable before, during, and after his conversion to Islam. Considering this instability how can Islam be a rational system of belief?
                              evidence that Muhammad was imbalanced goes all the way back to his childhood. His parents died when he was young, so he was brought up by his grandfather and his uncle. Muhammad had a nurse who took care of him prior to his mother’s death. This nurse told about this strange event that occurred during Muhammad’s childhood:
                              Some months after our return [Muhammad] and his brother were with our lambs behind the tents when his brother came running and said to us, "Two men clothed in white have seized that Qurayshi brother of mine and thrown him down and opened up his belly, and are stirring it up." We ran towards him and found him standing up with a livid face. We took hold of him and asked him what was the matter. He said, "Two men in white raiment came and threw me down and opened up my belly and searched therein for I know not what." So we took him back to our tent.
                              His father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears." So we picked him up and took him to his mother who asked why we had brought him when I had been anxious for his welfare and desirous of keeping him with me. I said to her, "God has let my son live so far and I have done my duty. I am afraid that ill will befall him, so I have brought him back to you as you wished." She asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her. When she asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of Muhammad), A. Guillaume, tr. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980), p. 71-72)
                              Muhammad’s nurse wasn’t the only one to fear demonic possession on the part of Muhammad; the Prophet himself came to the exact same conclusion when he began receiving revelations from Gabriel. A full account of Muhammad’s first encounter with Gabriel is given in the Sirat Rasul Allah:
                              When it was the night on which God honored him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. "He came to me," said the apostle of God, "while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What then shall I read?’—and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said:
                              ‘Read in the name of thy Lord who created,
                              Who created man of blood coagulated.
                              Read! Thy Lord is the most beneficent,
                              Who taught by the pen,
                              Taught that which they knew not unto men.’
                              So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart."
                              So far so good, except for the violent manner in which Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad. But Muhammad’s interpretation of the event is quite revealing. His first impression of his encounter was that he had been possessed; as a result, Muhammad quickly became suicidal:
                              Now none of God’s creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed—Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest.
                              Muhammad tried to throw himself off a cliff, but he was stopped by Gabriel. He later became suicidal again when no additional revelations came.
                              Now tell me that this is not the behavior of a mad man, belonging in a nut house: "he was sitting on a chair in between the sky and the earth. I was so frightened by him that I fell on the ground and came to my family and said (to them), Cover me! (with a blanket), cover me!" (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3238.)
                              And what is this? Epilepsy? "When the Ka’ba was rebuilt, the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abbas went to carry stones. Abbas said to the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him): "(Take off and) put your waist sheet over your neck so that the stones may not hurt you." (But as soon as he took off his waist sheet) he fell unconscious on the ground with both his eyes towards the sky. When he came to his senses, he said: "My waist sheet! My waist sheet!" Then he tied his waist sheet (round his waist) (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3829.)
                              Cold sweat??? "Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) sweated in cold weather when revelation descended upon him" (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 5763.)
                              High fever??? A’isha reported: When revelation descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) even during the cold days, his forehead perspired.[8]
                              Breath Holding Spells will cause your face to turn blue… it's another sign of Epilepsy: Ubada bin Samit reported that when wahi (inspiration) descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he felt a burden on that account and the color of his face underwent a change. (Ibid., Number 5766.)
                              The satanic versus show:
                              Muhammad’s reception of revelations was influenced by his personal desires;
                              He received a revelation from Satan;
                              He proclaimed the revelation as a message from Allah;
                              He and his followers bowed down in honor of receiving the revelation; and
                              God’s response was, in effect, "Don’t worry about it Muhammad. All prophets proclaim Satanic messages from time to time."
                              God’s response to Muhammad was incorporated into the Qur’an:
                              "And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."
                              Hence, Satan was capable of influencing both Muhammad and, allegedly, all the prophets before him. But Satan wasn’t the only influence on Muhammad. A Jewish magician named Labid was also able to exercise control over the "Seal of the Prophets."
                              Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: "Once the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact, he had not done."
                              Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) so that he used to think that he had had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. Then one day he said, "O Aisha, do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other: ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied, ‘He is under the effect of magic.’ The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-Asam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’"
                              Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin A’sam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year."
                              According to the earliest and most reliable Muslim writings and traditions, Muhammad’s first impression of his divine encounter was that he had been possessed by demons. This encounter disturbed Muhammad so much that he became suicidal. Further, we have a story in Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biography of Muhammad, maintaining that the childhood nurse of the Prophet also thought that he might be demon-possessed. Some of the details of Muhammad’s encounter seem to support this conclusion. He was sometimes terrified of his revelations, screaming for someone to cover him. He would sweat profusely even in the cold, and his face would change color. Additionally, Muhammad could not distinguish genuine revelations from Satanic revelations, and he was the victim of a debilitating magic spell that probably lasted a year.
                              this evidence is entirely sufficient for a rational person to seriously doubt Muhammad’s reliability as a prophet. A man who (admittedly) proclaimed verses from Satan and fell victim to sorcery while declaring himself to be God’s greatest messenger should not be trusted without exceptionally good evidence to support his claim. Since no such evidence for Islam exists, it is justified to question his role as God’s messenger.
                              Moreover, when examining the life of another messenger of God, Jesus of Nazareth, we find that Muhammad is to be utterly rejected. Consider one of Jesus’ many encounters with demons:
                              They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!"
                              "Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of the man with a shriek.
                              The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him."
                              Contrary to what the Qur’an suggests, not all of God’s messengers were the occasional puppets of Satan. The New Testament- which Muslims believe in, gives the account of at least one who had complete authority over demons. If we have to choose which messenger to listen to, is it not reasonable to trust the one who terrified demons with his presence? Furthermore, Jesus warned his followers that "many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."Not all false prophets deliberately deceived their disciples, however. Some were led by Satan to do so, and the evidence strongly suggests that Muhammad falls into this category. Even his own followers said that he was bewitched.
                              "Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews?"
                              God can send prophets to other nations and he has done so- Abimelech king of Grar for example, and Balaam Be Beor for another. God also has a promised land saved for other nations but the Jews as stated earlier… God created all humanity and loves them all. He may have separate covenants with others and send them prophets etc. that doesn't mean that he did not single out the Jews to prove his existence through them, and use them as a light to the nations so that eventually the whole world will believe in him (not that the whole world will become Jews… that is simply un necessary)
                              "Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims"
                              God can see into the future and he did. He foresaw that the Jews will disobey him and announced what will happen to them- they will be punished. Terribly. But then they will be forgiven and restored. They will never be replaced. Do you suppose God to be a liar promising an eternal covenant to the Jews? Or is he not all knowing and didn't know what will happen in the future to change his mind?

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