إعـــــــلان

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 02-08-2009, 02:02

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

انني اشعر بالحزن على هذا المريض ويبدو انه صغير في السن ولا يعرف شيء عن كتابه المسكين وهذه ليست سخرية

So lets picture the situation they were unsure of what to do next because the man they were following was captured and will be crucified and was crucified and died...Notice when the change came over them... ONLY after the risen Christ appeared to them and they same the risen Christ for themselves then they KNEW WITHOUT ANY QUESTION NOW THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN FACT GOD

this means two things:first jesus is a man not a God and second he never tells his dicsiples that he is a god .

No one dared correct the mistake that was discovered in the Bible for fear of adding or taking away from what was written, when you see God you can ask him why this is so

i can't accept a book which is claimed to be god's words and has mistakes.

You fault the Christians for Beliving the Word of God, just like men have done from the time of Jesus, Muslims are no better than those who spat and beat Jesus yet you ask me how was this possible?

if jesus was a god why he would accept people to mock and spat on him?
we believe that jesus is a prophet not a god and we apprecite him like this no more no less.

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 02-08-2009, 18:20

جزاك الله كل الخير اخي الكريم "ابو علي الفلسطيني"
لكن للاسف الشديد ان عمره تجاوز الخمسين عام
بس بصراحة هو غبي قوي.........انا مش عارفة ازاي مش شايف انه هو غلط حتي لو مش شايف ان احنا صح
وخد بالك انه لم يرد الي الان علي الايميل اللي كل شوية اطلب منه يرد عليه الا وهو الايميل اللي ارسلته ردا علي رده الواهي علي بعض تناقضات الانجيل اللي اثارتها له.

جزاك الله كل خير اخي
جزاكم الله كل الخير اخواني واخواتي ورزقنا واياكم الاخلاص

في انتظار المزيد من الردود منكم ومقترحاتكم في طريقة الرد عليه وخطة العمل معه

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 02-08-2009, 18:39

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

حياك الله اختنا الفاضلة وجزاك الله خيرا

هو لا يملك ان يرد ولا يعرف اصلا ان يرد فهو يحاول ان يستثير عواطفنا مع عقيدته المحرفة والواهية
ان كل ردوده لا تعطي اي شيء علمي ولا اي حقيقة عن كتابه لا من اين جاء ولا من كتبه وكيف وما هو تبريره للاخطاء الموجودة فيه ولا يريد المناقشة في حقائق دينه الواهية اطلاقا بل كل كلامه عبارة عن سفسطة وكانه يريد منا ان نقبل ديانته كما هي وليس هذا عنهم بغريب لانهم خراف يسيرون وراء الكذب والاضاليل.

Even on the Shroud of Turin they have said the blood which is human blood of a man crucified and the blood is still red (I have pointed this shroud out to you many times yet you fail to discover anything about it) how is it possible for almost 2000 years for the blood to still be red?

وهذا يدل على حمقه وايمانه بالخرافات ويتحدث عن الكفن الذي لا يزال يقطر دما حتى الان متناسيا ان هذا الكفن المزعوم تبين مؤخرا انه من صنع القرن السادس او ما يليه اي بعد موت المسيح بمئات السنين

yet you DEAR challenge the Bible

ويستغرب هذا الاحمق ذلك

Tell me about the Shroud if you can?

وكأن هذا الاحمق يريد ان يختبر معلوماتنا متناسيا اننا نعلم النصرانية المحرفة اكثر منه
على كل حال ارى ان لا فائدة من محادثة هؤلاء الحمقى المغفلين

وخد بالك انه لم يرد الي الان علي الايميل اللي كل شوية اطلب منه يرد عليه الا وهو الايميل اللي ارسلته ردا علي رده الواهي علي بعض تناقضات الانجيل اللي اثارتها له.

لانه لا يعرف كيف يرد وثانيا لانه حزين على ردودنا التي فضحت ديانته كان يريد منا ان نقبلها كما هي

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 02-08-2009, 20:57

جزاك الله كل خيرا اخي الكريم

انا كمان شايفة كده من الاول بس حبيت اني ازلزل له قواعد ايمانه بالباطل حتي يدرك ده حتي ولو لم يصارحنا به

**مسلم عن حق** · 04-08-2009, 01:39

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أختى فى الله من الواضح أن هذا الانسان صعق بعد قرائة إيميلك الاخير و إسود وجهه حيث أنى رأيت هذا الوجه المسود عدة مرات من قبل فكلهم يصعقون عندما يسمعوا حقيقة دينهم, و لكنهم يستكبرون و يتعنتون و يسارعون ما عرفوا من الحق. و لكن عليك أن تعرفى أن هذا الصراع و الانكار المتوتر الذى تجلى فى رده عليك, هو أول خطوة على طريق الهدى إن شاء الله. و من الواضح أنه أيقن تمام اليقين بأن كتابه ليس كلام الله. و أنه لجأ إلى خط دفاعه الأخير و هو إيمانه بيسوعه, فعليك أن تحاولى معه مرة أخرى لعل الله يهديه إلى الحق بعد أن يكتشف أن إيمانه بيسوع باطل, و إليك منى بعض ما يمكن قوله فى هذا الموضوع:

:here are some points that you can discuss with him
First:
(Son of God / King of Kings / Savior / High Priest)
You might think that these are tittles of Jesus yes this true but these are tittles of Julius Caesar before being assigned to Jesus.
Second: The Jesus Birthday, according to the bible [Math2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod] and this was 7 years before year1 so the Christmas of his Jesus is fake, and more. [Luke 2:8 and there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night]. And what said in this text (watch over their flocks at night) can only happens only at summer not at winter as what is known, so the question now will be why is the Christmas celebrated in 25 December? This date is the birth dates of the pagan god (Sol Invictus) the god of sun it was firstly calculated at 23rd of December but later it was corrected.
Third:
When he refused to answer on your questions and said that he know only about Jesus, this was nothing more that ignorance about him, because his Jesus Said: [1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect] so he had to answer you according to what his Jesus told him.
Fourth:
Jesus told [John 18:20 I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret] So Jesus in the secret said nothing, in the basis of this verse we have to ask:
1- Did Jesus said I’m God the Son, not son of God because sons of God are many in the bible, Adam is son of God [Luke 3:38, the son of Adam, the son of God].
2- Did Jesus I’m that I’ve both human and divine nature?
No
3- Did Jesus tell us who the true God is? [Matthew 19:17 Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only one who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments]
[Mark 11:22 Have faith in God," Jesus answered] John 17:1-3: After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent
4- What Did Jesus told us about himself? [John 8:40 as it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.] 5- Did Jesus resurrect? No but God resurrected him: [Acts 17:31 for he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead]

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 06-08-2009, 12:52

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
جزاكم الله كل الخير اخواني واخواتي جميعا لاهتمامكم وتواصلكم الجميل ومساعدتي بقوة للرد
وايمانا مني بانكم بالفعل كنتم شركائي في حواري معه فانقل اليكم الان اخر ايميل كتبته له

Hi, Rod

i wish you are fine..

really i enjoyed your discussion.....but i do not see that it was not friutiful.

look dear , Rod..... when i liked to discuss you about our religions i was not insisting to getting you converting to Islam, although i wished that from my heart... but i was aiming to claryfing my thoughts and to see the other belief.

it is not a new thing for me to discuss a christian man ,i did discuss all kinds of christians, even fathers of churches......But i usually at the end i find the same answer which is like your , a non comprhensive one.

you are always escaping replying on our questions by the same statements,......" you can not understand"

look dear friend....when you are invited someone to ur religion you must convience him and you must reply on his questions , and not to escape it...

every question should have an answer , God respect minds ... if we did not use our minds to choose our religion , so what is the value of our minds God had given us????????

let me tell you what the difference between Islam and christianity

*Islam is a simple religion can talk to any minds , not such complex as christianity

and logically God when put a religion it should not be complex coz he is aiming to guide people and not to make it difficult to be understtod.

*in Islam we are to worship one God , we glorify him...we believe that he is the most greatful , the most merciful ,with unlimited ability, he is one with no sons , he never get fatigue ...he is supreme in every thing

while in christianity, Bible tells:

Genesis 2:1 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. "

which book glorify God ??????

Bible who say the pervious verse or Quran who said the following verse:

Quran 46:33

33- Can they not see with their minds' eyes that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth and did not grow weary or worn out with fatigue, is able to resurrect the dead and restore them to life ?He is Qadirun (Omnipotent) to effect all things.

also please notice that Genesis 2:1 contradict Isaiah 40:28

Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding

In Islam we believe that God is supreme , God never be in a picture of human who got kicked by other people.

In Islam merci of God is unlimited so he can forgive without need for redeem.

*in Islam we believe in all prophets and we respect him ...prophets in Quran are of good manners, so they are desrving to be followed ....on contrary in Bible , you accused prophets who you are follow by bad ugly dirty manners ...

you accuesd David that he had illegal sexy relationship with a woman and that he was disloyal.

you accused another prophet that he did sex with his daughters......it means that we may be better that our prophets , is it logic?????

is it logic to follow those??????

* Quran is the true unchanged word of God , contain no faults , contain scientific miracles which your western scientists discovered every day.......but Bible got corrupted, some items was added and others deleted..and other changed

for example Jermiah 52 was added by some other hand...as you told me.

so the word of God was subjected to hands who changed in it , adding to it or deleting ....how can i add a historical chapter to thr book of God?

Book of God is a holy one, and we must be honest in delivering it as such , not to permit any person to add to it , espcially it was by unknown hand.

also Bible had scientific faults for example that Bible describe rabbits as ruminating animal which is not true.

also let me use your statement to prove my point of view:

No one dared correct the mistake that was discovered in the Bible for fear of adding or taking away from what was written, when you see God you can ask him why this is so.

i can't accept a book which is claimed to be god's words and has mistakes.

also you must know that Quran never changed since it been deliverd to prophet Muhammad "peace and blessings upon him".

Quran never contain any fault.....,i challenge by it any one to give me one fault in Quran.

anyway i respect our difference.

but i was hoping when starting discussion with you to get specific reply on every question and to talk with evidences, and not to escape replying by claiming that i would not understand you.

suppose i am a christian one and i was discussing with a muslim one and he show me such proofs of corruption of Bible, and i came to you asking you to give me a reply for my questions...would you answer me the same answer accusing me that i can not understand or you will clarify to me and reply me if you had reply.

let me tell you that last year there was a christian engineer from India was argue with me about religion and he entered Islam coz i replied to all his questions about Islam and coz he did not find any reply for my questions about his religion.

and after he entered Islam , his family rejected him and the father of church asked to meet him and the father could not reply on his questions so he become more insisting on Islam coz he did not find reply for his questions,

also i heared from an egyptian christian girl the story of her entery to Islam....she told that she asked fathers of church and they always has no specific reply , they only asked her to follow christianity as such without thinking...they never answered her.

I am telling you this , coz i want you to know that it is important to find replies for my questions or other questions about your religion.

anyway let me say thank you too much for your time and patience which really i respect .

wish for you happy life and wish God to guide u to the true path.

we are sharing in love of God , jesus, and Mary but in different beliefs but the net result is love and forgiveness and i think it is enough and beautiful.

let me finished my e mail by two verses of Quran, please to read it to know our concept in dealing with christians:

Quran 5:82

82- You shall find O Muhammad the most avowed enemy to those who conformed their will to Allahs will arc the Jews and those who incorporate with Allah other deities. And you shall find that the people who have a better disposition toward those who conformed their will to Allahs will are those who are Christians. This is because among them, there are priests and monks who fear Allah and not extravagant in their accounts of themselves nor do they entertain inordinate self-esteem.

Quran29:46

46- And do not argue -O Muslims- with Ahl AL-Kitab (the people of the Book) but in a better fashion employing the faculty of reason in forming conclusions and adducing facts in a logical, peaceable and gracious manner, but not with those of them who are wrongful of actions lacking eloquence and fashion in their argumentation. Declare your thoughts in words, thus: We do acknowledge all that has been revealed to us and to you. Our Ilah and your Ilah is One and to Him We bow to the ground in Islam and adoration.

with my best wishes,

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 06-08-2009, 15:04

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Wonderful. Marvellous
I hope he will have an open mind to think of what you've said

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 06-08-2009, 17:51

جزاك الله كل خير
May Allah reward you for your kindness to me and your support and help.
really i am too happy that i could get a help anytime from brothers and sisters here in this forum.
special big thanks to my brother Abo Ali Palastinian

قال تعالي :
"وتعاونوا علي البر والتقوي ولا تعانوا علي الاثم والعدوان"
صدق الله العظيم

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 06-08-2009, 19:11

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

special big thanks to my brother Abo Ali Palastinian

لا شكر على واجب اختنا الفاضلة

حياك الله

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 07-08-2009, 16:09

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
He sent me a reply for my last e mail
that is it:

received your email and I read it and understood it, do the same for me, take the time to understand what others say and not just keep asking questions after questions a point is never made in this way.

Ask your questions then since you think I am escaping them. Ask the very important questions that have meaning and spare me the comments about stuff like how can God die when it is clear that God cannot die or be killed by men yet He in His wisdom allowed such but by laying down His life and then taking it back up again as it is written, cannot God do as He Wills? Is this not logical to you?

As you can tell I am a bit bothered by some of how this is moving along. I don’t want to keep repeating myself over and over again. Read and understand what is read ask questions but don’t skim over and move on, no learning will take place in this fashion. Either you will learn or I will but someone will or this will be just a waste of time. I don’t want my time wasted and I sure hope you don’t as well.

You may ask 10 more questions then we move on, so pick the best ones or the most important ones! If ten is not enough then let me know how many more you intend to ask so I have an idea and then I WILL RESOND TO EACH OF THEM WITOUT ESCAPING THEM. Since they are important for you to ask! So let’s see then where we go with this.

Have a good day

ما رأيكم هل ارد؟؟؟ وبم ارد؟؟؟

**ابو علي الفلسطيني** · 07-08-2009, 20:42

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

حياك الله اختنا الفاضلة

هو يريد منك تحديد 10 اسئلة او اكثر من اجل ان يجيب عليها. حسنا سنرى ان شاء الله

Who rote the bible?
when it was written?
what marks the bible's begining and what marks it's end?
when was jesus was born?
when jesus was crucified no one of his disciple saw him, how did they describe something they never saw?
there is no mentioning in the bible for the trinity, then who invented it?
jesus in the bible never says that he is a God and worship me, why do you claim that he is a god?
how can we explain the differences and the mistakes in the bible?
how can we explain the adition of some writers to the bible? i qoute from a christian theologian

:""...portions of the book were probably added by scribes or editors from later periods of Israel's history... (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 183)"

الحديث هنا عن سفر نشيد الانشادsongs of songs
i qoute also:

Here is what the NIV Bible Theologians and Historians say about the books:
About the books of 1 and 2 Samuel: "Many questions have arisen pertaining to the literary character, authorship and date of 1,2 Samuel."
"Who the author was cannot be known with certainty since the book itself gives no indication of his identity."
(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 368).
About the books of 1 and 2 Kings: "There is little conclusive evidence as to the identity of the author of 1,2 Kings."
"Whoever the author was, it is clear that he was familiar with the book of Deuteronomy."
(From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459).

هذا ما حضر في ذهني الان وربما نحضر مجموعة اخرى من الاسئلة ان شاء الله

**مسلم عن حق** · 08-08-2009, 15:29

السلام عليك أختنا
إذا كان طلبه أسئلة ليرد عليها إذن فمازال هناك أمل أن يفهم و أن يهتدى, و إليك بعض من الاسئلة التى من الممكن أن تسئليها له, فلتقرئيها جيدا هى و الاسئلة التى أرسلها لك اخونا أبو على الفلسطينى و أى أسئلة أخرى ولتنتقى منها ما ترينه مناسب للشخص الذى تحاوريه.

Here are the Questions with quotation from the bible to help you understanding my point
The Bible says: Romans 10:17 (faith comes from hearing the message and the message is heard through the word of Christ).
So all your beliefs must be said by Jesus Christ, not Paul, Peter, Mark and Mathew.

1- Would you please tell me when Jesus did mention the original sin?
But the fact is that Jesus neglected it, John 15:22 (If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin).

2- Where did Jesus spoke about him having human and divine nature, or said I’m God or Worship me?
The fact that he said, that the only true God is the Father and he “Jesus” is another thing but God and that God sent him.
John 5:31-32 (If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me.)
Jesus praying to the Father; John 3:17 (And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.)
The fact is that he said I’m a human sent by the father (a prophet):
John 8:40 (But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God) God means the Father as mentioned above in John3:17.

3- Is this verse word of God?
2 Timothy 4:10 (The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments)

4- Is this Verse written by Mathew?
Matthew 9:9 (And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him)

5- Do you believe that what is told in this verse is a divine moral? And would you like to be a harlot to go to the kingdom of God
Matthew 21:31 (Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.)

6- Jesus said:
Mark 7:27 (But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.)
The Children are sons of Israel and the dogs are the others like you and me, do you believe that this is a Godly justice or just a Jewish racism.
And do you know what should your answer be?
And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
Do you agree with your bible, are you a dog do you accept eating from under the crumbs under the table of the Jews?

7- In the Old Testament it’s told:
Isaiah 9:6 (For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.)
And Jesus said:
Mathew 10:34 (Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.)
Luke 22:36 (Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.)
This is not symbolic he means a real sword and here is the prove:
Luke 22:38 (And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.)
Luke 14:26 (If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.)
Is this a prince of peace?
Do you hate all those people mentioned up there? can you hate them? is this the way to the Kingdom of God.
I command you the true way of God which is Islam the word Islam is derived from the Arabic word Salam which means Peace.

and finally i salute you be the Islamic greeting.
Peace be upon you and God's mercy and blessings

Note you can refer also to the book of sheikh Deedat (100 question without answer)
or to the Book"البهاريز فى الكلام اللى يغيظ" For Mr. Alaa Abo bakr which you can find here in the forums library.
God help and reward you.

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 08-08-2009, 17:35

جزاكم الله خيرا اخواني
قبلاناعقب علي مشاركاتكم احب ان اعرفكم اني طبعا لسه لم ارد عليه لاني طبعا كنت في انتظار اقتراحاتكم
لكن لقيته اليوم باعت لي ايميل عجيب قوي
يا ريت تشوفوه
Read the following:

According to Egyptian law, the construction of churches - unlike mosques - requires formal government approval. Many Copts complain that Christian communities face undue bureaucratic obstacles when trying to build or renovate their places of worship, while efforts to build mosques face little if any official obstruction.

“It’s absurd that anyone would have to obtain a licence in order to simply practise their faith,” said Gabriel. “Some 90 percent of the problems between Christians and Muslims can be attributed to the church-building issue.”

From: https://copts.com/english1/index.php/...tensions-rise/

Muslims pass laws to restrict the Christians, it’s a disgraceful display. Your God requires laws by men for protection. The men of Islam must pass laws to protect Allah from the Christian assault! Lets protect ourselves from the crazed Christians and their corrupted Bible. Lets pass laws!

Look how the wonderful Muslim treats the Christian since they are in the majority, they pass laws to protect themselves from the minority. What do they fear from the Christians and their corrupted book anyway?

What sort of God teaches men to act in this way, a God that plans to give virgins to men as a reward! Sex is a reward in Islam, the outrageous concepts and behavior never seems to end in Islam.

I have much more to say about this religion of yours, just to let you know, but not just yet.

FYI:

Sex is not a reward in Christianity by the way, for your information our corrupted Bible teaches us that God does not encourage lust of the flesh now nor in the future.

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 08-08-2009, 17:39

كلامه غبي جدا ومستفز جدا

بس مش هرد علي حاجة غير بعد ما اسمع مقترحاتكم ونشوف بما نرد علي هبله وافلاسه ده

بيتكلم عن ااضطهاد المسيحين في مصر الاهبل ده ودم الشهيدة مروة لسه لم يبرد .....

**المشتاقة للرحمن** · 08-08-2009, 18:13

المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة ابو علي الفلسطيني مشاهدة المشاركة

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

حياك الله اختنا الفاضلة

هو يريد منك تحديد 10 اسئلة او اكثر من اجل ان يجيب عليها. حسنا سنرى ان شاء الله

Who rote the bible?
when it was written?
what marks the bible's begining and what marks it's end?
when was jesus was born?
when jesus was crucified no one of his disciple saw him, how did they describe something they never saw?
there is no mentioning in the bible for the trinity, then who invented it?
jesus in the bible never says that he is a God and worship me, why do you claim that he is a god?
how can we explain the differences and the mistakes in the bible?
how can we explain the adition of some writers to the bible? i qoute from a christian theologian

الحديث هنا عن سفر نشيد الانشادsongs of songs
i qoute also:

هذا ما حضر في ذهني الان وربما نحضر مجموعة اخرى من الاسئلة ان شاء الله

Iwish to be rewarded by Allah for your help my brother.
your questions are very good and i liked it. but i have only 2 comments:
1st one :

when was jesus was born?

i like from you to clarify for me your target in this question,please.

2nd one:

there is no mentioning in the bible for the trinity, then who invented it?
jesus in the bible never says that he is a God and worship me,

these 2 questions were the first questions i have asked him since monthes but my argument with him in these 2 points was in vain ofcourse not because weak proofs of me but coz blind mind of him as i think.
and if u like to post our e mails of discussing these topics , i am ready to do and glad to do.

thank u too much , my brother
and please keep on helping me in facing them

إعـــــــلان

help me in defending Quran

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