ياليت قومي يعلمون !

موضوع ذو صلة :

أقوى نبؤة تؤكد نجاة المسيح من القتل و الصلب ( جديد ) !!!

ممتن لمرورك اخى الحبيب و لتثبيتك الموضوع
جزاكم الله خيرا

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
و به نستعين

جزاكم الله خيرا موضوع الشبيه ده محسوم و منتهي


مواضيع ذات صلة
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t209917.html
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t188678.html
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t191782.html
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t8480.html

كالعادة (ردّ) نصرانيّ كسيح عليل الهدف منه الحشو و ملأ صفحات منتدى الزريبة بما لا يُفيد لإبقاء بقيّة القطيع * تحت تأثير التّخدير .

سلمت يمينكَ دكتورنا الحبيب .

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* يوحنا 10 : 27 ( خِرَافِي تَسْمَعُ صَوْتِي، وَأَنَا أَعْرِفُهَا فَتَتْبَعُنِي. )

كل موضوعه بناه على اساس ايضاح هرطقة الدوسيتية ونحن لم ننقاش هرطقتهم انما الفكرة هي :

بيان ان هناك طوائف مسيحية امنت بعدم صلب المسيح في الفترة ما بين المسيح و بعثة النبي محمد صلى الله عليهما وسلم و ان الشعب القبطي في وقت من الاوقات امن بهذه الفكرة .


كان هذا قبسا من الرد على موضوع سابق لهذا المنصر هنا
https://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t210696.html

طبعا المنصر يستميت في محاولة اثبات ان عقيدة انكار صلب المسيح هي عقيدة متاخرة لكن كما شاهدنا سابقا هي عقيدة ترجع للقرن الاول و نضيف

نقرا من الموسوعة الكاثوليكية :
((A heretical sect dating back to Apostolic times. Their name is derived from dokesis, "appearance" or "semblance", because they taught that Christ only "appeared" or "seemed to be a man, to have been born, to have lived and suffered. Some denied the reality of Christ's human nature altogether, some only the reality of His human body or of His birth or death. The word Docetae which is best rendered by "Illusionists", first occurs in a letter of Serapion, Bishop of Antioch (190-203) to the Church at Rhossos, where troubles had arisen about the public reading of the apocryphal Gospel of Peter. Serapion at first unsuspectingly allowed but soon after forbade, this, saying that he had borrowed a copy from the sect who used it, "whom we call Docetae". He suspected a connection with Marcionism and found in this Gospel "some additions to the right teaching of the Saviour". A fragment of apocryphon was discovered in 1886 and contained three passages which savoured strongly of Illusionism. The name further occurs in Clement of Alexandria (d. 216), Stromata III.13 and VII.17, where these sectaries are mentioned together with the Haematites as instances of heretics being named after their own special error. The heresy itself, however, is much older, as it is combated in the New Testament. Clement mentions a certain Julius Cassianus as ho tes dokeseos exarchon, "the founder of Illusionism". This name is known also to St. Jerome and Theodoret; and Cassianus is said to be a disciple of Valentinian, but nothing more is known of him. The idea of the unreality of Christ's human nature was held by the oldest Gnostic sects and can not therefore have originated with Cassianus. As Clement distinguished the Docetae from other Gnostic sects, he problably knew some sectaries the sum-total of whose errors consisted in this illusion theory; but Docetism, as far as at present known, as always an accompaniment of Gnosticism or later of Manichaeism. The Docetae described by Hippolytus (Philos., VIII, i-iv, X, xii) are likewise a Gnostic sect; these perhaps extended their illusion theory to all material substances.

Docetism is not properly a Christian heresy at all, as it did not arise in the Church from the misunderstanding of a dogma by the faithful, but rather came from without...This heresy, which destroyed the very meaning and purpose of the Incarnation, was combated even by the Apostles. Possibly St. Paul's statement that in Christ dwelt the fullness of the Godhead corporaliter (Colossians 1:19, 2:9) has some reference to Docetic errors. Beyond doubt St. John (1 John 1:1-3, 4:1-3; 2 John 7) refers to this heresy; so at least it seemed to Dionysius of Alexandria (Eusebius, Church History VII.25) and Tertullian (De carne Christi, xxiv). In sub-Apostolic times this sect was vigorously combated by St. Ignatius and Polycarp. ))
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05070c.htm

و طبعا المنصر حاول يائسا الصاق هذه الفكرة بيوليان فقط و كانها لم تكن موجودة قبل يوليان و لذلك ذهب الى تعريف اليوليانية الا اننا ناتيه من نفس الموقع بتعريف الدوستية و ما قيل عنها و متى ظهرت من Encyclopedia:
((Apart from these contentious issues about the canonical gospel narrative itself, it is clear that docetic beliefs received support (whatever the original intention) from phrasing in the early hymn embedded in Philippians 2:5–11, which states that Christ Jesus took "the form of a slave, being born in human likeness," as this echoes as a proof-text through the writings of adherents to such views. Conversely, 1 John 1:1–3 and 4:1–3, and 2 John 7 evidence anti-docetic emphasis on the flesh that has been touched. Already, by the early second century, Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp were combating those who denied the fleshly reality of Jesus' birth, life, and death, as well as those who claimed that his suffering was only apparent....
Although docetism is frequently associated with Gnosticism—and many variations of such ideas can be found in the Nag Hammadi and similar writings—it is best understood as a collection of widespread tendencies that evidence the imperatives of popular piety, the impress of pagan notions of divinity or archetypal polarities between heaven and earth, and the influence of the glorified Christ already envisioned in the transfiguration and resurrection appearances. The term docetist first appears in a letter of Serapion of Antioch as quoted in Eusebius of Caesarea's History of the Church (6.12.6) with reference to those who circulated the Gospel of Peter, dating from around the mid-second century; but indications of pressure in this direction are evident from virtually the earliest strata of Christian belief that can be tracked historically. There is no evidence for any single sect of "docetists," and (even though Clement of Alexandria ascribes it to Julius Cassianus) no founder or point of origin can be supposed other than in theologically driven histories of heresy. ))
https://www.encyclopedia.com/philoso...neral/docetism


ايضا نقرا من الموسوعة البريطانية :
((Docetism, (from Greek dokein, “to seem”), Christian heresy and one of the earliest Christian sectarian doctrines, affirming that Christ did not have a real or natural body during his life on earth but only an apparent or phantom one. Though its incipient forms are alluded to in the New Testament, such as in the Letters of John (e.g., 1 John 4:1–3; 2 John 7), Docetism became more fully developed as an important doctrinal position of Gnosticism, a religious dualist system of belief arising in the 2nd century AD which held that matter was evil and the spirit good and claimed that salvation was attained only through esoteric knowledge, or gnosis. The heresy developed from speculations about the imperfection or essential impurity of matter.))
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Docetism

و حاول المنصر طبعا ان يستشهد بمرجع يتكلم عن Aphthartodocetism الا ان هذا المنصر جهل ان هذه العبارة لا تعني الدوستية Docetism بل مذهب من مذاهب الدوسيتية وقد اسسها يوليان فخلط المنصر الحابل بالنابل و ارجع كل فكرة الدوستية الى هذه الفرقة التي تعد احدى الفرق الدوستية

من نفس المرجع نقرا :Docetism (or Illusionism) is a Christological heresy, the teaching that Jesus Christ only appeared to be man but was not in actuality. The word is derived from the Greek dokein, meaning "to seem" or "to appear". According to Docetae (Illusionists), the eternal Son of God did not really become human, have a physical body, or suffer on the cross; he only appeared to do so, i.e., his body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion.


Docetism existed during the New Testament period and even afterwards, being addressed by both the New Testament epistles and by those of St. Ignatius of Antioch.))
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Docetism

يتبع

و طبعا حاول المنصر فرحا ان يصطاد كلمة هنا او هناك لنقرا ما قال

المنصر يعتمد في كلامه على مرجع ويكي (ليس ويكيبيديا ) و لكنه مرجع حاله حال ويكبيديا و الفضيحة ان اي احد يستطيع كتابة اي شيء شرط ان يشترك في الموقع بايميله و يكتب ما يشاء!!



و هذا طلب اشتراكي في ويكي حتى استطيع التعديل و الكتابة في الويكي




اما ان اردت مصادر اكاديمية تنصيرية ايها المنصر فتعال اعلمك و اعطيك المصادر الاكاديمية من نفس موضوعي السابق الذي رددت فيه عليك

اما بالنسبة للوثنية فالمسيحية كلها بمعظم طوائفها اليوم و سابقا تاثرت بالوثنية الا من رحم ربي

1. المسيحية تاثرت بالوثنية الرومانية و التي داخلتها عقيدة تاليه الاباطرة و اعتقاد الوهيتهم
نقرا من Allegiance, Opposition, and Misunderstanding: A Narrative Critical Approach للكاتب ديفين ماكدونالد صفحة 62



و نقرا في كتاب The Biblical WorldVol. 40, No. 2 (Aug., 1912), pp. 80-91












https://www.jstor.org/stable/3141986...n_tab_contents
2. و لم نذهب بعيدا و اتعب نفسي ها هم اباء الكنيسة يعترفون بتشابه الوثنية مع المسيحية

يتبين ان كل كلام المنصر هو في حقيقته خلط بين فرع من فروع الدوستية و هي اليوليانية التي اسسها يوليان وبين وقت ظهور فكرة الدوستية و معتقداتها فهو يظن ان الاول هو الثاني بينما الحقيقة ان الاول فرع من الثاني و ان الثاني قد سبق ظهور الاول بقرون بل ظهر في القرن الاول

فكل ما اتى به من باب هذا الخلط هو : مضيعة للوقت لا اقل و لا اكثر

و المصيبة دخوله في تفاصيل مملة لا علاقة لها بالموضوع ككيف نشات و ماذا حصل ليوليان و مصيره و التفاصيل المؤدية لذلك و موقف الكنيسة منه وووو كل هذا مضيعة للوقت

لانه مبني على مغالطة اختزال الدوستية في اليوليانية .

اثبتنا اذا مما سبق :

1. ان افكار و عقائد الدوستية (بما فيها انكار الصلب) ظهرت منذ القرن الاول الميلادي بل و في زمن رسائل بولس

2. ان اليوليانية فرع متاخر عن الدوستية و المنصر وقع في مغالطة اختزال الدوستية في اليوليانية

3. ابادة و انتهاء المذاهب الغنوصية كلها في القرن السادس و استحالة وجود كتبها او حتى احد افرادها في الجزيرة العربية في القرن السابع

4. الطبائع الوثنية موجودة في الفكر المسيحي كتاثرها بمعتقد الرومان في تاليه الاباطرة و اعترف بالتشابهات بينها و بين الوثنية يوستينوس الشهيد احد اباء الكنيسة

5. المنصر يستشهد بمرجع ويكي قابل للتعديل !

هذا وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد و على اله وصحبه وسلم