Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

[محمد سني 1989]

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Look... This is getting ridiculous. Let's surmise... No one is denying that Ishmael was blessed by God, and promised great nations would come from him through his descendants. At NO point is Ishmael promised the covenant will go through him. At NO point did God decree a prophet would come from him. Twelve princes .. Yes.. A great nation... Yes. But a prophet NO. It does not matter how great you think the nations of Ishmael are.. Let's face it if you are referring to "Islamic nations" by today's standards there is not much greatness to be found. Define greatness? The Roman Empire was considered great in its time in regards to social cohesion and academia.. They were pagan and died a death.. Like so many other "great nations". You think a great nation is solely one which prays to God and obeys His laws? As muslims do not hold the monopoly on that then other nations NOT descended from Ishmael could also be considered great. If greatness referred to numbers ... Then there may be a point as certainly Ishmael's descendants were prolific.

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You already stated that but yet this does not explain why the passage which blessed Abraham and Isaac was also used on Ishmael

Your explanation of great nation contradicts the bible's explanation in Deut and Genesis to the Israelites and Abraham, So your explanation does not mean anything

I will also make this clear When god said according to the writers of the bible he will establish his covenant with Isaac , he still said to Abraham that he has heard his prayer to Ishmael

It is that simple , I will not quote the passages you could find them above

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This is Gods covenantal promise to Abraham... Not Ishmael. It is Abraham who's name is great.. Thus Abrahamic religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam as we all are blessed in one way or another through Abraham... Just as those under the covenant passed on to Isaac are thus blessed..Jesus was the culmination of a line of prophets through Isaac... The child of promise. Jews see themselves under the Abrahamic covenant through A

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braham and adhere to the conditions. Christians see themselves spiritually grafted onto the covenant through Jesus. Muslims I can only see as part of the covenant through Abraham.. Although you do not adhere to the conditions... But you are not part of the covenant through Ishmael as Ishmael was like yourselves was blessed through Abraham not by his own mediation.

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Again you are taking part of the passage only :

nd I will make

of thee a great nation

, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Genesis 12: 2

Of thee meaning of Abraham of his linage a great nation not just his name . This great nation will be blessed as the passage also indicate

So the passage used here on Abraham was the same used on Ishmael , the blessing and the greatnessof the linage NOT JUST the name (I am not saying that the name is not blessed focus on this)

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As I said you do not have the monopoly of righteous decrees and laws... And I don't see how your relationship with God is any better than mine as a Christian.

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This does not answer my response . This statement is a clear way of avoiding the obvious answer

This passage shows what greatness of a nation is

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Being the oldest translation does not make it the most accurate. Besides its use of archaic language can be off putting when one has to have an old English dictionary to hand! You may prefer it as the Quran (at least translated into English) is very similar. I prefer a crisper, clearer translation. Besides... When the KJB was originally produced it did not use the wealth of manuscripts to compare as we have now. However.. The revised version covers this aspect. It's down to preference.

The orginal KJV did not contain the words Yes or No in the passage nor their interpritations or equil in 16th century english like the word Nay . So the delema and the question still exists why would they add such contradictory words on different biblical versions !!!!

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That you have an issue with the Biblical scribes is your problem. The Bible is an honest true account of mankind and our relationship with God. You have a different relationship with Allah. Why pray tell... Would the Biblical scribes seek to glorify their genealogy? Of course you realise prophets very often used scribes and did not all write their own accounts. Their revelation was first transmitted orally it was often later committed to written form. What evidence that the scribes employed were any less honest or reliable than those scribes who penned the Quran? They too believed they were dealing with Gods words.

One evidence is simply we do not know their names nor do we know the names of whom orally transmitted it while in the Quran we have all the names of the writers during the time of the prophet and Abubakr and Uthman and the names of whom orally memorized it and transmitted it through a chain of oral transmission

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Don't make me laugh!!!! Cry for help.. ROTFL... It's clear as day what the term "only son" implies in the Bible.. That being the only son of Abraham and Sarah...!!!!!!!! For sure Ishmael was older... That has no baring on the fact that God had chosen Isaac as the child of covenantal promise. The fact that Frances Worthington and such like can't grasp this simple plain fact is not the fault of the scripture but their comprehension skills.

LOL you are struglling . You are being cornered and debunked. Go to any person and tell them that you will take your only son for dinner , he or she will understand it in only ONE way , the boy is your only son and has no siblings thats what common sense says , however the christian fantasy world would defer to try to get out of this embaraccing situation

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Well we agree on one thing.. That Jesus as Lord will return. We may differ on what impact that return will have. As a follower of Christ Jesus it's clear to me.. You have your own hope. I would not trade places with you based on what you have shown me of Islam thus far.

Peace unto you.

And based on what you and all other christians I have come accross to I would definatly not even consider trading places , for I fear for what the reprecssions would be on the afterlife which would come from worshipping humans and trinitarian roman concepts

peace