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Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
The passage about Isaiah 53 I already answered before and it has nothing to do with your crusifiction :

As for Isaih 53 , Isaiah 53 is a continuation of 52 where the ones talking here are the gentile kings reffering to israel as a singular NOT THE MESSIAH , describing its sorrows , grief , torture and son on
This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

So this text is reffering to israel as a whole in the tongue of gentile kings , this is how jews interperated it and this is what jews told christians within their debates:

I remember that once in a discussion with some whom the Jews regard as learned (i.e. Rabbis) I used these prophecies. At this the Jew said that these prophecies referred to the whole people as though of a single individual, since they were scattered in the dispersion and smitten, that as a result of the scattering of the Jews among the other nations many might become proselytes. In this way he explained the text: "Your form shall be inglorious among men" and "those to whom he was not proclaimed shall see him" and "being a man in calamity"

origen the church father in his debates with jews


http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter17.html
The Jews interpret it that way as well, and there is truth to it being Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happened to Israel! The prophecy stands tall in my mind's eye!