OT shows Jesus' purpose and how He died for us.

[Burninglight]

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The passage about Isaiah 53 I already answered before and it has nothing to do with your crusifiction :

As for Isaih 53 , Isaiah 53 is a continuation of 52 where the ones talking here are the gentile kings reffering to israel as a singular NOT THE MESSIAH , describing its sorrows , grief , torture and son on
This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

So this text is reffering to israel as a whole in the tongue of gentile kings , this is how jews interperated it and this is what jews told christians within their debates:

I remember that once in a discussion with some whom the Jews regard as learned (i.e. Rabbis) I used these prophecies. At this the Jew said that these prophecies referred to the whole people as though of a single individual, since they were scattered in the dispersion and smitten, that as a result of the scattering of the Jews among the other nations many might become proselytes. In this way he explained the text: "Your form shall be inglorious among men" and "those to whom he was not proclaimed shall see him" and "being a man in calamity"

origen the church father in his debates with jews


http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter17.html

The Jews interpret it that way as well, and there is truth to it being Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happened to Israel! The prophecy stands tall in my mind's eye!

[محمد سني 1989]

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The Jews interpret it that way as well, and there is truth to it being Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happened to Israel! The prophecy stands tall in my mind's eye!

Burninglight open your eyes:

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!


peace

[Burninglight]

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Burninglight open your eyes:

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!


peace

Open your the eyes of your heart and receive Christ. He shall see His seed in this case and prolong His days goes along with the verse "But as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God even to those that believe on His name." Besides, the prophecy doesn't only concern Jesus it does physical Israel as well. It is futile to think that Islam will wipe out the Jews and Christians as is the mission of radical Islam. I believe, however, radical Islam will take over the world, and Christians and Jews very well may be given over into their hands, but it will be short lived.

Peace

[محمد سني 1989]

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Open your the eyes of your heart and receive Christ. He shall see His seed in this case and prolong His days goes along with the verse "But as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God even to those that believe on His name." Besides, the prophecy doesn't only concern Jesus it does physical Israel as well. It is futile to think that Islam will wipe out the Jews and Christians as is the mission of radical Islam. I believe, however, radical Islam will take over the world, and Christians and Jews very well may be given over into their hands, but it will be short lived.

Peace

I am sorry but I still do not see an answer to this :

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

You are so attached to your own idea that you don't address my responses directly

peace

[Burninglight]

Quote

I am sorry but I still do not see an answer to this :

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

You are so attached to your own idea that you don't address my responses directly

peace

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them; for instance, we know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. Like I said, the Bible was written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have more for correct nonsense errors whereas you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This answers your question.

Peace

[محمد سني 1989]

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I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them; for instance, we know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. Like I said, the Bible was written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have more for correct nonsense errors whereas you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This answers your question.

Peace

Do not mix up between topics , you are not allowed to this , we are discussing trinity in another thread


As for this answer , congradulations for since you said this statement :

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them

Unintentionally you have admitted the CORRUPTION of the old testament

So you are between two :

1. either this passage does not talk about Jesus
2. Or the OT is corrupted and still this passage is unreliable

BTW I am sure this is your personal opinion , like always I am debating your personal opinion

peace

[Burninglight]

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Do not mix up between topics , you are not allowed to this , we are discussing trinity in another thread


As for this answer , congradulations for since you said this statement :

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them

Unintentionally you have admitted the CORRUPTION of the old testament

So you are between two :

1. either this passage does not talk about Jesus
2. Or the OT is corrupted and still this passage is unreliable

BTW I am sure this is your personal opinion , like always I am debating your personal opinion

peace

As I mentioned, I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts that are not corruptions. We know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. This is not changing the subject; it is answering the question asked.

Like I said, the Bible was NOT written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have room to correct nonsense errors and variants; whereas, you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore, the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This does answer your question. There is no doubt the OT prophesied concerning Jesus. Again, nonsense errors and variants are not corruptions; they are more like typos. Like I make on this forum, but I don't have the privilege to correct them like you do.
Peace