Adam and Eve in the Bible and the Quran

[محمد سني 1989]

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There are over 30 prophecies concerning the Crucifixion in the Old Testament alone to include a few


in Genesis Chapters 3


It is recorded in Genesis 3:14-15, "So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field; on your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel."


Genesis Chapters 5


"Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the Blessed God shall come down, teaching that His death shall bring the despairing comfort."


In Psalm 22 there are many verses which clearly look forward to the Crucifixion.... As there is also in Isaiah 52


Isaiah 53


3: "He is despised and rejected by men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. …..he was despised, and we did not esteem Him.


4: Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows


5: But He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.


6: the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


7: He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth


9: And they made His grave with the wicked - but with the rich at His death

11: for He shall bear their iniquities.


12: because He poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors

Jesus Himself said... "He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise." But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9 30:32

And also ..

Now as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside and said to them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life". Matthew 20 17:19



peace unto you.

The first has nothing to do with crusifiction, it is talking about a punishment to Adam and to eve and the serpent:

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This is talking about Adam and eve . In retorical manner it is talking about ALL of men and ALL of women

When was the head of the serpent bashed????

As for genesis chapter 5 it looks to me that you have copied and pasted this from some internet source without differentiating between the actual passages in the bible and the interpritation of the writer.
THIS PASSAGE DOES NOT EXIST IN GENESIS 5 , READ YOUR OWN BOOK CAREFULLY :
GENESIS 5: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...05&version=KJV

No prophecy of crusiction in psalms 22 only the statemnt god why have you forsaken me used by david , which is a statement used in :

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
this itself does not prove crusifiction rather it proves that christians and jews picture jesus and david peace be upon them as two men abandoned by god!!!!!

As for Isaih 53 , Isaiah 53 is a continuation of 52 where the ones talking here are the gentile kings reffering to israel as a singular NOT THE MESSIAH , describing its sorrows , grief , torture and son on
This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

So this text is reffering to israel as a whole in the tongue of gentile kings , this is how jews interperated it and this is what jews told christians within their debates:

I remember that once in a discussion with some whom the Jews regard as learned (i.e. Rabbis) I used these prophecies. At this the Jew said that these prophecies referred to the whole people as though of a single individual, since they were scattered in the dispersion and smitten, that as a result of the scattering of the Jews among the other nations many might become proselytes. In this way he explained the text: "Your form shall be inglorious among men" and "those to whom he was not proclaimed shall see him" and "being a man in calamity"

origen the church father in his debates with jews


http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter17.html

[huria]

Jazak Allah khair brother Muhmmad, I think your reply to the verses of so called

"prophecy of Crucifixion" deserve a new thread.

[pandora]

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Jazak Allah khair brother Muhmmad, I think your reply to the verses of so called

"prophecy of Crucifixion" deserve a new thread.

Huria, I would go as far as to say the brothers reply is deserving of a new thread. However, if it is felt a new thread would better serve the topic then go ahead and make one.

In regards to the brothers replies, which I do have some issues with.. in order to give them worthy consideration I will reply when I have given it more time, as on first reading it seems rather disjointed and I want to be sure I understand what the brother is saying here. I find his shouting... (Constant use of upper case letters) off putting.. Sorry it has to be said.

Peace unto you

[محمد سني 1989]

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Huria, I would go as far as to say the brothers reply is deserving of a new thread. However, if it is felt a new thread would better serve the topic then go ahead and make one.

In regards to the brothers replies, which I do have some issues with.. in order to give them worthy consideration I will reply when I have given it more time, as on first reading it seems rather disjointed and I want to be sure I understand what the brother is saying here. I find his shouting... (Constant use of upper case letters) off putting.. Sorry it has to be said.

Peace unto you

With respect to big letters I have already explained the reason and purpose of that in a different subject. As for my answer being disjointed, I think you should reconsider such a statement since your previous response of prophecies shows huge mistakes and evidence of copying and pasting from christian websites. I am trying to be polite here but the fact is that you obviously have not read the old testament especially genesis nor have you read the context and history of the book of Isiaih or you would not have included such misunderstanding and mistakes in your previous response

peace

[pandora]

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With respect to big letters I have already explained the reason and purpose of that in a different subject. As for my answer being disjointed, I think you should reconsider such a statement since your previous response of prophecies shows huge mistakes and evidence of copying and pasting from christian websites. I am trying to be polite here but the fact is that you obviously have not read the old testament especially genesis nor have you read the context and history of the book of Isiaih or you would not have included such misunderstanding and mistakes in your previous response

peace

Apologies I missed that explanation. It does seem disjointed and that's why I need to read it carefully. As I don't have the facility to post directly on this forum or even edit my posts for errors as other muslims members have, I have to wait till my post appears on the forum, there have been many times it is not as I had wished but am at that point unable to effect any change. I see in my post the bits I copied there was a table of facts which did not copy successfully.. This could be to do with the device I use an iPad rather than PC.. Some functionality is lost.

I will ignore your last comment.. In regards to my lack of knowledge on the OT. You make a great many mistakes yourself, so I don't think it polite or useful in pointing out the imperfections of others. I try my best to explain to the best of my ability and with honesty. I am not a theologian but an ordinary Christian woman. If that's not good enough for you then we have no further need to converse and I hope you find someone who's intellect matches your own.

Peace unto you.

[محمد سني 1989]

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Apologies I missed that explanation. It does seem disjointed and that's why I need to read it carefully. As I don't have the facility to post directly on this forum or even edit my posts for errors as other muslims members have, I have to wait till my post appears on the forum, there have been many times it is not as I had wished but am at that point unable to effect any change. I see in my post the bits I copied there was a table of facts which did not copy successfully.. This could be to do with the device I use an iPad rather than PC.. Some functionality is lost.

I will ignore your last comment.. In regards to my lack of knowledge on the OT. You make a great many mistakes yourself, so I don't think it polite or useful in pointing out the imperfections of others. I try my best to explain to the best of my ability and with honesty. I am not a theologian but an ordinary Christian woman. If that's not good enough for you then we have no further need to converse and I hope you find someone who's intellect matches your own.

Peace unto you.

It is up to you if you want to ignore my comments, and as for my mistakes then you are welcome to point them out if they are there , I am not being rude I am explaining the situation as it is . It is important before you suggest a claim or copy and paste something to make sure if it is right or not , like you claimed that the moses law always required blood to repent but in fact that is not the case as I have showed you from the book of jonah, you also claimed that christianity never claimed that those before jesus peace be upon him were not in sin but in sin nature where in the new testament paul contradicts this claim and affirms that those before jesus were in actual inheritted sin. Also you have not answered the fact that the context of genessis puts the blaim on eve where in satan seduced eve and eve seduced adam and when asked adam put the blame on eve and god replied to her why have you done this eve a clear statement in the bible showing that eve is more to blme than adam and thats what paul also taught as I have quoted from the new testament. My point is simple if you are going to make a claim about something please make sure it is actually true or as you say within your bible

peace

[pandora]

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It is up to you if you want to ignore my comments, and as for my mistakes then you are welcome to point them out if they are there , I am not being rude I am explaining the situation as it is . It is important before you suggest a claim or copy and paste something to make sure if it is right or not , like you claimed that the moses law always required blood to repent but in fact that is not the case as I have showed you from the book of jonah, you also claimed that christianity never claimed that those before jesus peace be upon him were not in sin but in sin nature where in the new testament paul contradicts this claim and affirms that those before jesus were in actual inheritted sin. Also you have not answered the fact that the context of genessis puts the blaim on eve where in satan seduced eve and eve seduced adam and when asked adam put the blame on eve and god replied to her why have you done this eve a clear statement in the bible showing that eve is more to blme than adam and thats what paul also taught as I have quoted from the new testament. My point is simple if you are going to make a claim about something please make sure it is actually true or as you say within your bible

peace

Please could you repost what you feel you have proved from the Book of Jonah? Can you restrict it to the point in hand so it does not get lost in a sea of other facts. I can see you are very keen to refute every single aspect you can in regards to biblical scripture. However, I find the points you make get lost..

Could be my fault... What with my knowledge of my faith being so woefully inadequate... As you like to imply ;) :) keep it simple. I will try my best within my ability to answer.

Peace unto you.