Christian Scholar says Jesus Was not a Christian but a Muslim who did ISLAM-TheDeenShow

[فداء الرسول]

Since you recognize that Jesus was not a Christian, you do not need to edit the title

The title is inter authorized by this researcher Christian


Do not try to change the subject

[Burninglight]

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Since you recognize that Jesus was not a Christian, you do not need to edit the title

The title is inter authorized by this researcher Christian


Do not try to change the subject

I am not changing the subject. I am saying that Jesus wasn't considered a Christian and of course he was a Muslim in the true sense of the name which means one who submits to the God of Abraham and not the god of Islam. Jesus submitted perfectly to the father like no one else ever did. IMO, followers I Islam's are not submitting to God even though they are called Muslims that is not what they do just like Jehovah Witnesses are not God's witnesses Muslims are not submitting to God when they call him and the son of God a liars. God said "This is my beloved son" Jesus called God His father. Why do followers of Islam's prophet call themselves Muslims when they don't believe God?

[محمد سني 1989]

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I am not changing the subject. I am saying that Jesus wasn't considered a Christian and of course he was a Muslim in the true sense of the name which means one who submits to the God of Abraham and not the god of Islam. Jesus submitted perfectly to the father like no one else ever did. IMO, followers I Islam's are not submitting to God even though they are called Muslims that is not what they do just like Jehovah Witnesses are not God's witnesses Muslims are not submitting to God when they call him and the son of God a liars. God said "This is my beloved son" Jesus called God His father. Why do followers of Islam's prophet call themselves Muslims when they don't believe God?

when did we call god or jesus a liar???

That staement itself does not claim waht you said, if so then David peace be upon him is also a son of god !!!:

13: I will be his Father, and he shall be my Son; I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from him who was before you,
1 chronichles 17 :13

or solomon peace be upon him :

6: He said to me, `It is Solomon your son who shall build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my Son, and I will be his Father.

1 chronichles 28: 6

[Burninglight]

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[SIZE=7]when did we call god or jesus a liar???]

Every time you say Jesus is not God's son or call Him son of Mary.

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That staement itself does not claim waht you said, if so then David peace be upon him is also a son of god !!!:

13: I will be his Father, and he shall be my Son; I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from him who was before you,
1 chronichles 17 :13

or solomon peace be upon him :

6: He said to me, `It is Solomon your son who shall build my house and my courts, for I have chosen him to be my Son, and I will be his Father.

1 chronichles 28: 6

It is saying what I am saying exactly. When God refers to David as His son, He means that out of His line will come the Messiah son of God the same with Solomon. Jesus is the culmination of His chosen people. After Jesus, we hear no more talk about sons from a bloodline covenant. Now Jesus now gives us the power to become sons of God in a spiritual sense when receive Him, but with David it is both spiritual and from the bloodline. Ishmael is out of the picture on this one. That is why he was no prophet nor do prophet come out of him!

Blessings and peace

[محمد سني 1989]

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Every time you say Jesus is not God's son or call Him son of Mary.

It is saying what I am saying exactly. When God refers to David as His son, He means that out of His line will come the Messiah son of God the same with Solomon. Jesus is the culmination of His chosen people. After Jesus, we hear no more talk about sons from a bloodline covenant. Now Jesus now gives us the power to become sons of God in a spiritual sense when receive Him, but with David it is both spiritual and from the bloodline. Ishmael is out of the picture on this one. That is why he was no prophet nor do prophet come out of him!

Blessings and peace

First as I have proved before Jesus never denied he was the son of Mary

He never claimed to be the son of God

Second the text is clearly reffering to david and solomon only not the bloodline , was it the bloodline that built the temple !!!!

I think that the context and the exact passage do not serve you all , yours is AGAIN just a claim , where is the evidence to your interpritation????


Third here are some passages concerning the prophet coming from ishmael peace be upon him and his brother and father :

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation

Genesis 17: 20

13The oracle about Arabia. In the thickets of Arabia you must spend the night, O caravans of Dedanites.14Bring water for the thirsty, O inhabitants of the land of Tema, Meet the fugitive with bread15For they have fled from the swords, From the drawn sword, and from the bent bow And from the press of battle.16For thus the Lord said to me, "In a year, as a hired man would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will terminate;17and the remainder of the number of bowmen, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be few; for the LORD God of Israel has spoken."

Isaiah 21:13-17

Clearly this describes the hijra , Qedar are the arabs of hijaz , Tema an area today north of Madina by few kilometres , in ancient times it is a name to describe the area of madina , khabar, fadak , alula , teama . The battle describes the battle of Badr

One last example :
in the interpritation Hagai 7:2 in the orginal hebrew language :

From this root,the pretended prophet mohammed or mohamet had his name " sir hggin says ,"

here Mohammed is expressly foretold by haggi ,and by name

, there is no interpolation here

.

there is no evading this clear text and its meaning

Source :Anacalypsis an Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis , page 67By Godfrey Higgins , http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=...&q=%2C&f=false, Also this is a topic and a subject introduced by brother نيو previously in the arabic forum :http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t196248.html

[Burninglight]

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First as I have proved before Jesus never denied he was the son of Mary ]

Why would he deny what is true? He never referred to himself as son of Mary either, and those that did in the Bible, Jesus shows they disparage Him as a prophet of God. Jesus said to them "A prophet is not without honor save in His own town" This is clearly showing that Jesus considered referring to him as son of Mary is dishonoring Him. I will never refer to Him as such.

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He never claimed to be the son of God ]

I beg to differ. Does He not refer to God as His father? What does that make Jesus if God is His father? Besides Jesus never claimed not to be the son of God or God!

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Second the text is clearly reffering to david and solomon only not the bloodline , was it the bloodline that built the temple !!!!]

You don't understand Biblical hermeneutics. It is a bloodline in a sense that built the temple.

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I think that the context and the exact passage do not serve you all , yours is AGAIN just a claim , where is the evidence to your interpritation????]

We are making sincere claims and interpretations, but some of us are sincerely wrong.

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Third here are some passages concerning the prophet coming from ishmael peace be upon him and his brother and father :

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation]

I don't doubt you here that your prophet comes from the seed of Ishmael, however, Ishmael was not recognized as a prophet in the Bible by the Jews or Christians. In fact, he was rejected as the child of promised, by God and Abraham, but Abraham still loved him deeply; so for the sake of Abraham God blessed Ishmael. Being blessed doesn't mean being the child of promise or prophet hood. A prophet hears from God. The Bible states that God heard Ishmael. There is a big difference between the two.

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Genesis 17: 20
[QUOTE=محمد سني 1989;600520]
13The oracle about Arabia. In the thickets of Arabia you must spend the night, O caravans of Dedanites.14Bring water for the thirsty, O inhabitants of the land of Tema, Meet the fugitive with bread15For they have fled from the swords, From the drawn sword, and from the bent bow And from the press of battle.16For thus the Lord said to me, "In a year, as a hired man would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will terminate;17and the remainder of the number of bowmen, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be few; for the LORD God of Israel has spoken."
[SIZE=5]
Isaiah 21:13-17

Clearly this describes the hijra , Qedar are the arabs of hijaz , Tema an area today north of Madina by few kilometres , in ancient times it is a name to describe the area of madina , khabar, fadak , alula , teama . The battle describes the battle of Badr

One last example :
in the interpritation Hagai 7:2 in the orginal hebrew language :

Quote

From this root,the pretended prophet mohammed or mohamet had his name " sir hggin says ,"

here Mohammed is expressly foretold by haggi ,and by name

, there is no interpolation here

.

there is no evading this clear text and its meaning

Source :Anacalypsis an Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis , page 67By Godfrey Higgins , http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=...&q=%2C&f=false, Also this is a topic and a subject introduced by brother نيو previously in the arabic forum :http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t196248.html

I don't see anything in here to show that Ishmael was accepted as a prophet or that Mohammad was a universal prophet for the world. I accept him as a prophet of Islam and for the pagan Arabs he help in the past, but I don't see any prophecy that he is our (Jews & Christians) prophet .

peace

[محمد سني 1989]

[QUOTE=Burninglight;602372]Why would he deny what is true? He never referred to himself as son of Mary either, and those that did in the Bible, Jesus shows they disparage Him as a prophet of God. Jesus said to them "A prophet is not without honor save in His own town" This is clearly showing that Jesus considered referring to him as son of Mary is dishonoring Him. I will never refer to Him as such.

I beg to differ. Does He not refer to God as His father? What does that make Jesus if God is His father? Besides Jesus never claimed not to be the son of God or God!

You don't understand Biblical hermeneutics. It is a bloodline in a sense that built the temple.

We are making sincere claims and interpretations, but some of us are sincerely wrong.

I don't doubt you here that your prophet comes from the seed of Ishmael, however, Ishmael was not recognized as a prophet in the Bible by the Jews or Christians. In fact, he was rejected as the child of promised, by God and Abraham, but Abraham still loved him deeply; so for the sake of Abraham God blessed Ishmael. Being blessed doesn't mean being the child of promise or prophet hood. A prophet hears from God. The Bible states that God heard Ishmael. There is a big difference between the two.

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Genesis 17: 20

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13The oracle about Arabia. In the thickets of Arabia you must spend the night, O caravans of Dedanites.14Bring water for the thirsty, O inhabitants of the land of Tema, Meet the fugitive with bread15For they have fled from the swords, From the drawn sword, and from the bent bow And from the press of battle.16For thus the Lord said to me, "In a year, as a hired man would count it, all the splendor of Kedar will terminate;17and the remainder of the number of bowmen, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be few; for the LORD God of Israel has spoken."
[SIZE=5]
Isaiah 21:13-17

Clearly this describes the hijra , Qedar are the arabs of hijaz , Tema an area today north of Madina by few kilometres , in ancient times it is a name to describe the area of madina , khabar, fadak , alula , teama . The battle describes the battle of Badr

One last example :
in the interpritation Hagai 7:2 in the orginal hebrew language :
I don't see anything in here to show that Ishmael was accepted as a prophet or that Mohammad was a universal prophet for the world. I accept him as a prophet of Islam and for the pagan Arabs he help in the past, but I don't see any prophecy that he is our (Jews & Christians) prophet .

peace

As for calling him father :
1 Chronicles, chapter 17:13: I will be his Father, and he shall be my Son; I will not take my steadfast love from him, as I took it from him who was before you,

This was for David

As for solomon :

1 Chronicles, chapter 22:
10: He shall build a house for my name. He shall be my Son, and I will be his Father, and I will establish his royal throne in Israel for ever.'
11: Now, my son, the LORD be with you, so that you may succeed in building the house of the LORD your God, as he has spoken concerning you.


As for blood line is a sense that still does not answer my question , that is your personal opinion

Who built the temple : Solomon , there is no need for personal opinions , text is clear



Third:If you are making seincere claims (note the word claims as you said) then where is the evidince , should I take your word!!!!!

Fourth : What you said about Ishmael : 1. Does not contain an answer to my quote
2. Does no explain him being a great nation
3. Was answered in previous posts in these texts

Fifth: Your saying that you don't see anything in my last response is your words to avoid the obvious of answering , at least Pandora gave me enough respect to have the courage to answer and give her interpritation of the context which you did not