Isaiah 29 : 16
Surely your turning of things upside down
any comment ???
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That surely must put non Arabic speaking muslims at a disadvantage when it comes to Allah hearing their prayers. How can they pray in a language they do not understand? Maybe it is possible to learn prayers parrot fashion but without full understanding of the worshipper.
perhaps this German preacher - Pierre Vogel a new Muslim - repeats the arabic words without understanding !!!???
the link:
v=P4DfAT7eeZw
perhaps this non-arabic muslim pray in a language he do not understand !!!??
the link:
v=wBe-BoqSJtE
i ' m sorry , what you are saying does not make sense !!
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I did not know it's not permissible to pray with translations.
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Why would Allah restrict prayers to Arabic language?
because Arabic is the language of the holy Qur'an .
all Muslims around the world will be united to pray in the same language ------> Arabic
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The Word of God is changed!
Logic says that the Lord does not change.
the fact says the opposite
Jesus - the supposed God - came to the world with his foreskin and he ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father without it !
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Again, sorry I do not see your point.
please re-read carefully my post and you will understand my point.
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This is starting to get repetitive.. It's only your problem. Because evidence shows that any minor differences there may be between manuscripts DO NOT in any way change the message.
Even if the differences were minor - as you sayed - this will affect the credibility of the holy scriptures !!
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Have you any idea of the sheer scale and size of the Bible
the corrupted text make him in this size :)
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Besides memorising something is no proof of its divine nature .
What do you say if i give you the irrefutable proof that the holy Quran is a real message from God.
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what part of the Old Testament do you think we deny?
Texts of murder and terrorism in the OT :
1Samuel 15 :3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
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How can we deny something we accept as a work of God?
do you accept the fact that the Lord was a baby 's and animal 's killer ???
I ask God to guide you both to Islam
Amen.
Peace.
Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 13-07-2014 at 07:31 PM.
Read it...your point is? You still do not seem to grasp the point on this.. Even your Adam Clarke article does not claim that Jeremiah 8 was saying the Torah was changed by scribes.. But that SOME scribes copied and changed parts for their OWN ends.. To suit THEMSELVES.. If you read on Jeremiah warns people away from these false "scriptures". At no point is the claim made that the ACTUAL Torah as handed down from God was changed in any way. If you still persist in this notion of yours you will have to get your answers from another source. I've said all there is to say on this point.. We are going round in circles.
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any comment ???
My bad I seemed to have missed this point of yours. I have to wonder why you have chosen this verse.. As I feel you do not understand its meaning.. I will try and make it simple.
~~~ ** Isaiah 29:16. Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?**~~~
Here Isaiah uses a metaphor by comparing the nature of the potter and the nature of the clay that he uses to create a vessel... When we look at the two we find that all of the power to shape the vessel is held in the hands of the potter. It is the potter who drives the wheel and who uses his power to shape the clay... It is the potter who decides how the clay will be shaped... It is the potter who determines what the purpose of the finished clay vessel will be. In this exchange the clay itself has no power. It is simply dead material that the potter shapes into a form of his own liking. The clay has no ability to resist the potter except that it would be thrown away as rubbish if it cannot be adequately moulded by the potter.
God is the potter.. and His people are the clay. God has the same authority and power over his creation that is shown in the potter and clay metaphor. To think that a lump of clay can shape the potter would be considered ridiculous by any rational man. However.. the people to whom Isaiah prophesies are attempting to do this very thing. They are "turning things upside-down" by usurping God's plan and purpose for Israel. They are forming their own god out of their application of the Law, and rejecting God who authored it. They are shaping their god by their own reasoning, developing an understanding that is based on their own logic. Rejecting the potter, they are attempting to form themselves into a shape of their own liking... one that is quite contrary to God’s purpose for them.
If we apply this to todays world .. People have turned everything upside-down by accepting sin and rejecting godliness. People today form their own gods, their own systems of authority, based upon their own logic and worldly understanding. The world today is consistent with Isaiah’s testimony over a thousand years ago... that many reject God as the creator, preferring to believe in a godless universe as they say...He made me not... When we limit ourselves to our own counsel and ideas we accomplish nothing greater than ourselves. Rather than follow the direction of the Spirit, we will follow the direction of our own sinful choices. Just as it takes a lie to cover a lie, sin is covered by more sin when we choose to reject God’s plan and purpose. I hope you understand.
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perhaps this German preacher - Pierre Vogel a new Muslim - repeats the arabic words without understanding !!!???
the link:
v=P4DfAT7eeZw
perhaps this non-arabic muslim pray in a language he do not understand !!!??
the link:
v=wBe-BoqSJtE
i ' m sorry , what you are saying does not make sense !!
because Arabic is the language of the holy Qur'an .
all Muslims around the world will be united to pray in the same language ------> Arabic
Sorry.. Can't be bothered with YouTube videos. Is it Allah's plan to turn the whole world Arabic.. ? That no matter what nationality one is or what language one speaks one has to pray in Arabic?? I'm sorry but that does not make sense to me.
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Logic says that the Lord does not change.
the fact says the opposite
Jesus - the supposed God - came to the world with his foreskin and he ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father without it !
I cannot believe you have the audacity to post such utter nonsense!!!! You are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel.. :(
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please re-read carefully my post and you will understand my point.
I look at it again.. But really you are not as clear as you think you are in your understanding of Christianity. As your point below shows..[/QUOTE]
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Even if the differences were minor - as you sayed - this will affect the credibility of the holy scriptures !!
No.. It doesn't. Only for you muslims today. I doubt prophet Mohammed felt as you do about the Torah and the Gospels..
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the corrupted text make him in this size :)
I can only assume this is a poor attempt at humour on your part. It's not that funny.. And doesn't warrant a serious response.
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What do you say if i give you the irrefutable proof that the holy Quran is a real message from God.
You could try, but bear in mind any proof of this you bring has to convince a non Muslim... Not those who already accept the Quran for what it claims to be. That is to say quoting verses from the Quran and hadiths is not going to cut it.. Or opinions or so called celebs etc..
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Texts of murder and terrorism in the OT :
1Samuel 15 :3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
do you accept the fact that the Lord was a baby 's and animal 's killer ???
Yes.. I accept the Old Testament as it stands because it is a true account. Gods righteous wrath is real and always justified. I have no problem in accepting that God knows best. As a matter of interest how do you come to terms with the violence in the Quran? Do you have a problem with Allah commanding muslims to kill non muslims?
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I ask God to guide you both to Islam
Amen.
Peace.
God guides my every waking and sleeping hour. I walk the path God has placed me upon. I don't ask God to guide you to Christianity I pray to God to open your eyes and heart and show you His truth.. In the name of His Word Jesus I ask this. Amen.
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Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*
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