Where Are the Original Torah and Gospel?

[huria]

Pandora, Let’s see what you said in another thread

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I personally would not quote the Quran in support of the Bible because there is no need to.....

I did not have to go far to see using the Quran to support your corrupted book.

In short to answer your claim, with the verses you used from the Qurn, The verses from the Qur'an, which command the Jews and Christians to judge by the Torah and Gospel respectively actually means that they must judge by the Qur'an since this is the only way to really judge by the Torah and Gospel sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively.

· 2:285 “The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from Lord, and [so do] believers; everyone believes in God and His angels, His books and His messengers. We do not differentiate between any His messengers.”

The noble verse described the muslims as the ones who believed in God and His angels, His books and His messengers but are the prophets before Mohamed still alive in persons? no.
it means we believe in them as they WERE prophets ,and it is not conditional that they must be alive in order to believe in them...

· not only is the case of the prophets but the case of the scripture itself, it is not conditional in order to believe in a revelation ,that it must be present fully as it was originally revealed ,eg;

Holy Quran: SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord.

what was sent down to Abraham? no scrolls of Abraham survive till today ,yet the Quran described the muslims as they already believed in that scroll....... so how that could be?!

That is the short answer for long answer you can read this,
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/re...eir_scriptures

and this

http://www.answering-christianity.co...?topic=1155.15
I doubt you will do though !

[pandora]

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Pandora, Let’s see what you said in another thread



I did not have to go far to see using the Quran to support your corrupted book.

Huria, if you read my post above I started with an apology for the copy and paste.. I added the website link at the bottom. They are not my words.. And I never stated that I share the same opinion expressed in the article. I stand by what I said.. I personally do not see the need to use the Quran in support of the Bible.. The Quran may need the Bible, as we see many of the stories are similar and some of the Biblical Prophets are to be found in the Quran, or at least an approximation of them. As the Bible came first then I don't see how or why it would be necessary for an earlier Scripture to need support from a later one. I see you are no stranger to copy and paste yourself so I don't see where the problem lies.

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In short to answer your claim, with the verses you used from the Qurn, The verses from the Qur'an, which command the Jews and Christians to judge by the Torah and Gospel respectively actually means that they must judge by the Qur'an since this is the only way to really judge by the Torah and Gospel sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively.

· 2:285 “The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from Lord, and [so do] believers; everyone believes in God and His angels, His books and His messengers. We do not differentiate between any His messengers.”

The noble verse described the muslims as the ones who believed in God and His angels, His books and His messengers but are the prophets before Mohamed still alive in persons? no.
it means we believe in them as they WERE prophets ,and it is not conditional that they must be alive in order to believe in them...

· not only is the case of the prophets but the case of the scripture itself, it is not conditional in order to believe in a revelation ,that it must be present fully as it was originally revealed ,eg;

Holy Quran: SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord.

what was sent down to Abraham? no scrolls of Abraham survive till today ,yet the Quran described the muslims as they already believed in that scroll....... so how that could be?!

That is the short answer for long answer you can read this,
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/re...eir_scriptures

and this

http://www.answering-christianity.co...?topic=1155.15
I doubt you will do though !

For sure this is your opinion or one shared by you. I can respect that even though I do not share it. I have replied to your posts on the other threads but they have not been posted yet. I am starting to see it may be futile to enter into dialogue with you.. I do not think you have anything. If you have to use such websites as answering this or that or whatever then that sets the tone and it's one I particularly wish to pursue.

I will make it easy for you. You can just answer one query... Which you kind of boasted that you could do so... So it should not be difficult. Before I ask the question I would like to respectfully ask that first and foremost you are honest with yourself and also honest in your intentions in regards to dialogue. To bear in mind that although you hold no respect for the Bible it is my Holy Book. I accord the Quran respect not because I believe it is what it claims to be... But because you and millions of muslims do hold it as your Holy Scripture and as such all Gods words need to be accorded the same respect.

my question.. Feel free to start another thread if needs be.. Is.....

who corrupted the Bible text? Name and shame please. When was this done? And why was it thought to be necessary to change the word of God in the first place?

I await your reply.

also this post seems to have some issue with the font size.. It has suddenly changed to a minuscule font. I hope a moderator can adjust this if not I hope you can see the font to read it.

Peace.

[pandora]

Quote

Pandora, Let’s see what you said in another thread



I did not have to go far to see using the Quran to support your corrupted book.

In short to answer your claim, with the verses you used from the Qurn, The verses from the Qur'an, which command the Jews and Christians to judge by the Torah and Gospel respectively actually means that they must judge by the Qur'an since this is the only way to really judge by the Torah and Gospel sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively.

· 2:285 “The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from Lord, and [so do] believers; everyone believes in God and His angels, His books and His messengers. We do not differentiate between any His messengers.”

The noble verse described the muslims as the ones who believed in God and His angels, His books and His messengers but are the prophets before Mohamed still alive in persons? no.
it means we believe in them as they WERE prophets ,and it is not conditional that they must be alive in order to believe in them...

· not only is the case of the prophets but the case of the scripture itself, it is not conditional in order to believe in a revelation ,that it must be present fully as it was originally revealed ,eg;

Holy Quran: SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord.

what was sent down to Abraham? no scrolls of Abraham survive till today ,yet the Quran described the muslims as they already believed in that scroll....... so how that could be?!

That is the short answer for long answer you can read this,
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/re...eir_scriptures

and this

http://www.answering-christianity.co...?topic=1155.15
I doubt you will do though !

Huria... I doubt that you will though ! ~ sounded like a kind of dare ;) so against my better judgement I read your articles. The point below from one of them I would like clarification please.

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We must read everything in its context. When one sees the clear evidence that Islam teaches that the text of the Christian and Jewish scriptures of TODAY is corrupt, he or she then must attempt to harmonize and understand what the other verses are speaking about. When all verses are looked at together, the problem will go away.

What evidence have you that this actually refers to the Bible we have today and not the Bible that was with us during 6th/7th century A.D.? We have Bibles from before, during and after this time. This archaeological evidence allows us to be sure that the Torah and Gospel mentioned in the Quran are the same books that are found in the Bible today. This being the case it seems that the Quran is passing judgement on future scriptural changes.. So we are back to the problem of who made the changes and when and indeed more importantly why??? You can't really go around and say something has been changed when you have no evidence to show it actually has.

Peace

[Burninglight]

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I did not have to go far to see using the Quran to support your corrupted book.

Holy Quran: SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord.

Corrupted book you say? This book is supposed to be your book too. We didn't have a Christian Uthman to burn our copies like what happened to the original Qurans. You cannot prove perfect preservation of the Quran; so, why do you throw stones when you live in a glass house? Even if it were perfectly preserved that doesn't make it God's word. A newspaper could be perfectly preserved and reliable, does that make it God's word?
Why do you include Ishmael as a prophet? He wasn't a prophet; God never spoke to him; he was just blessed for Abraham's sake. That is it end of story; in fact, no prophets come out of him. Read Gen 21