[QUOTE=عثمان أحمد الشيخ;590189]Dear Pandora,
Thank you for your message . I will start where you have ended. You said:" I apologise if my words seem harsh and I really do not wish to cause offence but I am trying to answer your questions whilst also trying to let you see my doubts about Islam." .Please, No apology. We have agreed to speak frankly and clearly and without any sensitivity or any critical
1- You said : " My main issue with the Quran is to some extent it's misrepresentation of the beliefs of both Christians and to similar extent the Jews. These beliefs were then as they are now and long set in canons hundreds of years before the Quran was revealed" and you think that "If the Quran was meant to be a final "instalment" or an "update" of what went before then I would expect it to have a more definitive idea of what it is replacing."
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--- The matter is not as you think. Allah (pbth) desended The Torah and The Bible to guide people to the true faith and worship the only true God who created me and you all that world . But the followers of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them) did not keep these revelations well . As a result there is no original revelation of these Holy Books now and some humans (excuse me ) messed with these books, they added to and deleted from them according to their fancy ( there is an evidence from the Quran ).So The Almighty Allah descended the Holy Quran and pledged to save it till the day of resurrection.Allah said in the Quran :- " We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and we will Assuredly guard it (from corruption).(15/9). So there is only one book all over the world. Muslims all over the world are uttering the Quran as it was descended on the messenger of Allah. The Holy Quran came down to correct the errors that have occurred due to human deeds.
This thing you say is very difficult to accept. Muslims always make this same claim about the Bible message being lost or changed, yet can offer no conclusive proof of this, as to why 1- Jews and Christians would wish to change what they revered as the word of their Holy God. Especially as dire punishment awaits any who dare to change Gods message. There are many warnings of such. Would they be crazy for doing such a thing???

Revelation 22:18-19 says, "For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

2 - who made these changes? And why were these changes made? And when exactly were these changes made? And what verses in the Bible were changed?

3- Mohammed told Jews and Christians to judge by their scriptures, that was the Torah and the Gospel... If God told Mohammed to tell the Jews and Christians to judge thus.. Why would God be content for Jews and Christians to refer to their scriptures if God knew they were corrupted to the extent of sending a new and completely different revelation? There are other points on this theme that do not make sense to me but I will leave it there.


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---- For an example only to what I wrote :
** In the Old Testament Exo 20/11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it". This is the wrong image of Allah the creator of that universe.Allah says : "There is nothing whatever like unto him, and He is the one that hears and sees (All things)".(42/11) and there is a verse like that completely in the Bible. Allah never feel tired that He (pbth) take a rest . That is an insult to The Almighty Allah .So Allah said in the Holy Quran :- "38. We created the heavens and the earth and all between them In six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us.(50/38) .I ask you which of the two verses befitting the dignity and the sanctity and greatness of the Almighty God ?
Here you misunderstand. When Exodus states God "rested" it does not mean God had exhausted His energy, that is a ridiculous notion. The day of rest, as the verse states refers to the Sabbath. No work was done on the sabbath that day was for God alone. God was setting a precedent for mankind that we toil for six days but the seventh we rest and keep holy. How you ascribe something as an insult to God something that God Himself ordained for us I don't understand. Surely muslims keep their sabbath day Holy? You say the Quran claims ....We created the heavens and the earth and all between them In six days, ... What pray does the Quran say God did on the seventh day? If it were not the Muslim sabbath. I do not see any difference between the two verses in regards to ascribing dignity and sanctity and greatness to God, only in your misunderstanding of Exodus, I feel most objections in regards to the Bible stems from misunderstanding..


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Also the image of most prophets is very bad .Does Allah chose fornicator prophets in order to call people to virtue .The image of David (peace be upon him) in the Torah is a shameful image but in the Quran David is a pure ,rightouse and obedient prophet.All prophets and messengers of Allah are the stars of that universe.They are models for us to be followed (peace be upon them all )
No, the image of the prophets is accurate and true. There is nothing shameful in an accurate portrayal of a man if it shows his strengths and weaknesses. For that's what they were, the prophets.... Men and women, human, and as such prone to the normal human weaknesses that it is our human condition to be. All were sinners and in need of God, Jesus was the only sinless being to walk the earth. Prophets were not chosen by God because they were special it was through being chosen that made them special. The Bible shows that if even prophets of God do sin and need Gods redemption then how much more do we need God. We learn important lessons that we all for short of Gods magnificent glory and we are all in need of His gracious mercy and forgiveness... Even prophets.. Even Mohammed had occasion to appeal to God for forgiveness. I feel by portraying the biblical prophets that the Quran recognises as perfect examples of humanity does them a great disservice, because if they were human men and women then it is impossible for them to be pure, they can strive to be both obedient and righteous but knowing they may fail and so are reliant on God as we all are is a greater lesson for us all to learn.

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** In the Bible John 1(5/7-8) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
-- Priests used to use these verses to prove "trinity". Now the phrase " three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:' was deleted from all translated versions all over the world and it is found only in all Arabic versions and in King James version. Peace and blessing to you and to all our brothers and sisters all over that vast world and may Allah (God) guide us all to the right way.Ameen,Ameen.

To be continued
If this was the only instance where the concept of the trinity was to be found in the Bible then you may have some kind of point. It isn't here are a few...

John 17:20-23 ESV
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.


John 15:26 ESV
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Luke 1:35 ESV
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.


John 14:16-17 ESV
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.


John 1:1-51 ESV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.



John 10:30-36 ESV
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?

John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.



Matthew 28:19 ESV
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Peace