Facts about Christianity ???!!!!!!!

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

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I am only in a dangerous position according to your belief... Not my own. How dare you imply I believe God had a wife or son or even partners. That is blasphemy and you are guilty of it not I. :( for that is your understanding not mine. Do not measure me my your own lack of understanding of my belief. What are you talking about my children???? My children only inherit my genes everything else is there own. Never place yourself on a par with Christ Jesus you as a sinful man / woman are not able to stand in His shoes.. There is no comparison. Without Christ you are dead in your sins. :(

I cannot accept Islam with all the inconsistencies it presents to me. I chose to put my trust and faith in God... Never in the opinions of men. Take your faith from priests??? What a statement..!! I take my faith from God alone I am nothing but Gods humble servant and all I am and all I do I do by His divine will. I feel here you are trying to convert me to believe as you do, shameful!! And I am sorry for that because it means dialogue must end and I have enjoyed talking with you. :(

i wish you well on your chosen path. Btw.. Would the moderator who deleted my post not care to offer an explanation as to the reason why. If it was in any way offensive to your sensibilities I will offer an apology as it is not my intention to cause offence. It can be by PM if I am allowed that facility or whatever.

Peace

Dear Pandora,
1- Let me first thank you for your kind message. Of course you believe in the original sin and that Jesus ( peace be upon him ) came to die on the cross to forgive our sins. He is the Savior that will save us of our sins . Please, excuse me. The original sin is a big lie because there is no inherited sin. Do you think that this pure and innocent baby can be born with sin. Do you think that God ( the Beneficent and Merciful ) is so cruel and injustice (Heaven Forbid ) that he loads this pure baby the sin of his brother or his parents or his old father (Adam) .Does God have hard heart that he could not forgive Adam without the blood of the Messiah. Islam clearly holds to the idea of original innocence. Everyone is responsible for his own sin. The sin which he himself committed and God (praise be to him) is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful can easily forgive any person who repent to God and come back to him .We don't have to confess our sins to priests or monks but we call God directly without any intermediary because he hears and sees us whenever or wherever we can.
"13. Every man's fate we have fastened on His own neck: on the Day of Judgment we shall bring out for Him a scroll, which He will see spread open.
14. (it will be said to him:) "Read Thine (own) record: sufficient is Thy soul This Day to make out an account against thee."
15. Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for His own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to His own loss: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would we visit with Our wrath until we had sent an apostle (to give warning) (17/13-15)."

2- If you read your book ,you will see that The Almighty God (the Beneficent and Merciful ) said the same thing that every one is responsible for his own sin and if he repented and came back to God He will forgive him soon . He does not need any blood or any Crucifixion :
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.(Deu 24/16)
But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:( Eze 20/18)

And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation? (Num 16/22)
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Isa 55/7)
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze 33/11)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. (Eze 18/20-21)
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (Chr 2 7-14)
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Math 6/14-15)
*** Where is the justice in the crucifixion of Christ. Where did Jesus say : I came to crucify on the cross ? Why did he cry saying Why has you forsaken me ? He was looking at heaven who did he talking to ?

[pandora]

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Dear Pandora,
1- Let me first thank you for your kind message. Of course you believe in the original sin and that Jesus ( peace be upon him ) came to die on the cross to forgive our sins. He is the Savior that will save us of our sins . Please, excuse me. The original sin is a big lie because there is no inherited sin. Do you think that this pure and innocent baby can be born with sin. Do you think that God ( the Beneficent and Merciful ) is so cruel and injustice (Heaven Forbid ) that he loads this pure baby the sin of his brother or his parents or his old father (Adam) .Does God have hard heart that he could not forgive Adam without the blood of the Messiah. Islam clearly holds to the idea of original innocence. Everyone is responsible for his own sin. The sin which he himself committed and God (praise be to him) is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful can easily forgive any person who repent to God and come back to him .We don't have to confess our sins to priests or monks but we call God directly without any intermediary because he hears and sees us whenever or wherever we can.
"13. Every man's fate we have fastened on His own neck: on the Day of Judgment we shall bring out for Him a scroll, which He will see spread open.
14. (it will be said to him:) "Read Thine (own) record: sufficient is Thy soul This Day to make out an account against thee."
15. Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for His own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to His own loss: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would we visit with Our wrath until we had sent an apostle (to give warning) (17/13-15)."

2- If you read your book ,you will see that The Almighty God (the Beneficent and Merciful ) said the same thing that every one is responsible for his own sin and if he repented and came back to God He will forgive him soon . He does not need any blood or any Crucifixion :
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.(Deu 24/16)
But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:( Eze 20/18)

And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation? (Num 16/22)
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Isa 55/7)
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? (Eze 33/11)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. (Eze 18/20-21)
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (Chr 2 7-14)
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Math 6/14-15)
*** Where is the justice in the crucifixion of Christ. Where did Jesus say : I came to crucify on the cross ? Why did he cry saying Why has you forsaken me ? He was looking at heaven who did he talking to ?

I really don't know if you're deliberately being obtuse or actually believe what you are saying. It's becoming a little tiresome to be told ..as a Christian.. What I believe by your good self.. A Muslim.. Especially because you do not listen when the Christian... Me..Tells you what she believes. You have the audacity to claim I actually believe something different!!! How does that work? Is it a form of bullying, that you hope to wear a person down until a point they say.. "Ok I give up, you are right and I am wrong.. I'll be a Muslim" is that how it works? I think you need to try another tack.

It's clear you are unable to understand the trinity, that's no problem for either you or me. It's clear, by your throwing in your aside to the crucifixion, that you patently don't understand that either. Yet, the Quran does not have any satisfactory alternative point of view on this, at best it fudges over the event at worst makes God out to be a deceiver!!! May God forgive my use of the word deceiver in relation to His Holy being. Now, it's patently obvious you don't understand the concept of "original sin" either!! I wonder where you get your information from of what you actually believe Christians believe.

No where does the Bible say the sins of the parent are a burden on the child, that you have surely seen as you quote from the Bible, yet you still believe we ignore this or don't see it, or don't understand it and see every new born as somehow sinful. The Bible goes on to say we are all responsible for our own sin... Yet you seem to think that Jesus's redemptive work on the cross gives us some sort of license to sin as we wish and all we have to do is say sorry and I believe in Jesus and we are still saved!!! Get real.. Where's your logic?

The original sin of Adam and Eve, disobedience to God, was their sin. How can you believe a new born is knowingly disobedient to God? It isn't, a new born is as innocent as the dawn and has no comprehension of disobedience to God or any thing else. What the original sin visited on mankind, through the serpent was, a sinful nature... Every being is born with a sinful nature. Except for Jesus.. It's this sinful nature that draws a veil between ourselves and a Holy God, God is so holy that Sin is an anathema to God, it's not possible for us to stand before a holy God whilst we are in sin. That's why God dispelled Adam and Eve from paradise to live out their time on earth, he forgave their sin, but they still had to bear the punishment for it because God has to be just. Yet, as Gods justice is tempered by His mercy and love then God provides us a means that we can stand before Him at the judgement and answer for our sins.. That's my sins, I will not answer for my parents sins no more than they answered for their parents no more than my children would have to answer for mine. Our sins are our own. The means God provides for us, through the greatest act of agape love, although you do not see this.. Is through the redemptive work of Christ Jesus on the cross, a bridge across the void of sin, that we may stand before the glory of almighty God and be judged accordingly.

This is Gods will and message given to me through the Bible and the living Gospel that is Jesus. Your alternative, that if your good deeds on earth out weigh your bad deeds then God may forgive you, or he may not, is all a bit arbitrary for me and I don't think views sin seriously enough and it's relation to a Holy God. It may all come down to how we each view sin and the importance it has on our eternal life. Because if you see your sins are something that may be covered by your own efforts, then what need have you for God? I know any sins I commit in my life I cannot make good reparation by my works, I can only achieve salvation by the grace of God, by my faith in Gods work through Christ Jesus and by my sincere repentance. My soul as they say will be in the hands of God.

Your beliefs as a Muslim are your own, as mine as a Christian are mine. I ask you respectfully to stop telling me what I believe and maybe just ask me. However, I am seeing that from my perspective as it was always my intention to learn from each other just as you can dispel myths and misunderstanding about Islam that I could offer the same from a Christians point of view, and believe me... It does seem at time that Muslims do have a mega misunderstanding about what Christians actually believe. Yet, it seems that is not your agenda and you simply seek to destroy my faith with the hope of replacing it with your own :( that's a shame.

BTW.. Is it only my posts.. As a non Muslim.. That are moderated before possibly making it to the forum or is it the same rule for everyone? When a post is deleted or not posted would it not be considered a courtesy to inform the poster why so? Because if a post has crossed the lines, broken the rules or caused offence if the poster is not aware then one can't make efforts not to repeat the same mistake. Also if an apology is needed the opportunity to give one is missed. Thanking you kindly moderator.

Peace.