صفحة التعليقات على موضوع : هل بولس رسول المسيح

[الكنيسة المفدية]

بسم الاب والابن والروح القدس اله واحد امين

اقتباس

أمتنع عن الرد للسبب السابق وهو انه ليس في ردودك جديد و قد تم الرد على ما طرحته وأنا لا أحب اجترار الكلام

وما ردودك الا تبريرات للتناقضات لا أكثر ولا أقل كما أن في مشاركتك الأخيرة بعض الأمور التي أرجئها مع سيرورة الحوار ولا أريد ان أكشفها الآن

عزيزى خوليو انا اوضحت النص وماذا تفيد الكلمة والمعنى الاصلى لها وتناسق النصوص مع بعضها وماذا تقول المصادر وماذا يقول العلماء

والمعنى واحد ياعزيزى لانى كما اوضحت فى المعنى الاصلى وليس كما كل واحد يقول هذا او ذلك

كل هذا وتقول لى لم تاتى بجديد هل هذا تبرير على عدم الاجابة

وانا منتظر جوابك ولما كان لهذا الصفحة ان تفتح

[kholio5]

اقتباس

عزيزى خوليو انا اوضحت النص وماذا تفيد الكلمة والمعنى الاصلى لها وتناسق النصوص مع بعضها وماذا تقول المصادر وماذا يقول العلماء

والمعنى واحد ياعزيزى لانى كما اوضحت فى المعنى الاصلى وليس كما كل واحد يقول هذا او ذلك

كل هذا وتقول لى لم تاتى بجديد هل هذا تبرير على عدم الاجابة

وانا منتظر جوابك ولما كان لهذا الصفحة ان تفتح

العزيز الكنيسة المفدية

أنت اتهمتني باني احمل النص ما ليس فيه

في حين أجد في تبريراتك القول :

بأن الجمع رأوا النور لكنهم لم يروا احدا وسط هذا النور !!

و تقول بان الجمع سمعوا الصوت لكنهم لم يستوعبوه !!!

فأين ذلك في النصوص و من الذي يحمل النصوص اكثر مما تصرح به ؟؟

طيب تساؤلات بسيطة :

1 - الجمع راوا النور لكنهم لم يروا احدا

فهل بولس رأى أحدا وسط النور الذي ظهر له ؟؟ أم انه كان يكلم صوتا يصدر من النور فقط دون أن يرى به شخصا ما ؟؟؟ !!!!

و هذا الموضوع كما قلت سابقا لي فيه تساؤلات اخرى أرجئها لسيرورة الحوار ولا أريد كشفها

2 - الجمع سمعوا الصوت لكنهم لم يميزوا ما سمعوه ؟؟

أين ذلك في النصوص ؟؟ أم انه مجرد استنتاج من وهم الخيال ؟؟

من الذي يحمل النصوص اكثر مما تصرح به ؟؟

[الكنيسة المفدية]

بسم الاب والابن والروح القدس اله واحد امين



يؤكد هذا القول ما جاء فى الترجمات الانجليزية التالية للشاهد (أع22:9) :-




AMP Now the men who were with me saw the light, but they did not hear [the sound of the uttered words of] the voice of the One Who was speaking to me [so that they could understand it]



AUV-NT Those who accompanied me saw the light clearly, but did not hear [i.e., understand] the voice of the one speaking to me



ESV Now those who were with me saw the light but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me



Etheridge And the men who were with me saw the light, but the voice they understood [Lit. "heard."] not which spake with me



GW "The men who were with me saw the light but didn't understand what the person who was speaking to me said



HNV "Those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they didn't understand the voice of him who spoke to me



ISV The men who were with me saw the light but didn't understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me



LONT And they that were with me saw the light, indeed, and were terrified; but they did not distinctly hear the voice of him that spoke to me



MRC "Now those who were with me indeed beheld the light, but did not give heed to the voice of the One Who was speaking to me



NAS77 "And those who were with me beheld the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me



NASB "And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me



NET. Those who were with me saw the light, but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to me



NIRV "The light was seen by my companions. But they didn't understand the voice of the one speaking to me



NIV My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.



NIVUK My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me


OJB "And the ones with me saw the ohr (light) but they did not have real hearing (understanding) of the voice speaking to me



WEB "Those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they didn't understand
the voice of him who spoke to me



وكما قلنا سابقا الاصل اليونانى :

إن المصدر من الفعل ”يسمع“ ليس هو ذات الفعل في كلا النصين، ففى اليونانية الكلمة المعربة ب" صوت" تعنى ايضا "جلبة او ضوضاء" . اذا الرجال الذين كانوا مع بولس سمعوا الجلبة ولكنهم لم يفهموا الكلام الموجة الية




و يقول ألبرت بارنس Albert Barnes فى تفسيره لنفس الاية السابقة :-



Hearing a sound or noise. The word here rendered “voice” is thus frequently used, as in Gen_3:8; 1Sa_12:18; Psa_29:3-4; Mat_24:31 (Greek); 1Th_4:16. In Act_22:9, it is said, “They which were with me (Paul) saw indeed the light, and were afraid, but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.” In this place, the words “heard not the voice” must be understood in the sense of “understanding the words,” of hearing the address, the distinct articulation, which Paul heard. They heard a “noise”; they were amazed and alarmed, but they did not hear the distinct words addressed to Saul. A similar instance occurs in Joh_12:28-29, when the voice of God came from heaven to Jesus, “The people who stood by and heard it said it thundered.” They heard the sound, the noise; they did not distinguish the words addressed to him. See also Dan_10:7, and 1Ki_19:11-13


"سامعين الصوت او الضوضاء المشوشة , الكلمة المقدمة هنا "صوت" هى التى تستخدم بتكرار مثل (تك3:8) , (1صم12:18) , (مز 28 : 3-4) , (مت24:31) و (1تس4:16). فى أع 22:9 يقول "وَالَّذِينَ كَانُوا مَعِي نَظَرُوا النُّورَ وَارْتَعَبُوا وَلَكِنَّهُمْ لَمْ يَسْمَعُوا صَوْتَ الَّذِي كَلَّمَنِي" الكلمات "لَمْ يَسْمَعُوا صَوْتَ" يجب ان تفهم بمعنى "فهم الكلمات" من سماع الخطاب , تمييز النطق الذى كان يسمعه بولس.هم سمعوا ضوضاء و كانوا متعجبين و متنبهين و لكنهم لم يسمعوا الكلمات المميزة التى كان يسمعها شاول , حالة مشابهة حدثت فى (يو 12 : 28-29) حينما سمعوا صوت الله الاب من السماء ليسوع "فَالْجَمْعُ الَّذِي كَانَ وَاقِفاً وَسَمِعَ قَالَ: «قَدْ حَدَثَ رَعْدٌ»." هم سمعوا الصوت , الضوضاء و لكنهم لم يستطيعوا تمييز الكلام المخاطب لهم"

[kholio5]

اقتباس

يؤكد هذا القول ما جاء فى الترجمات الانجليزية التالية للشاهد (أع22:9) :-م"[/COLOR

للتنبيه فقط لا اكثر

لم أستطع يوم أمس ان أكتب هذا التعليق لأن النت عندي انقطع

لاحظوا ان السيد الكنيسة المفدية تطرق الى ترجمة انجليزية واحدة و غظ النظر عن باقي الترجمات

ولننظر معا و نحكم على أمانة الضيف :

[ American Standard ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ And they that were with me beheld indeed the light, but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. ]

[ Darby ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ But they that were with me beheld the light, [and were filled with fear], but heard not the voice of him that was speaking to me. ]

[ Basic English ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ And those who were with me saw the light, but the voice of him who was talking to me came not to their ears. ]

[ The Message ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ My companions saw the light, but they didn't hear the conversation. ]

[ New Living Translation ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ The people with me saw the light but didn't hear the voice. ]

و المفاجأة الصاعقة من ترجمة الملك جيمس المعتمدة عند الأرثوزوكس

[ New King James ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. ]

[ King James Version ]-[ Acts:22:9 ]-[ And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. ]

ألم أكن امينا في اعترافي بخطئي ؟؟

لماذا لا نجد نفس الأمر عند أصدقائنا النصارى ؟؟