OT shows Jesus' purpose and how He died for us.

Isaiah 53:5New International Version (NIV)



5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.


Cross references:
A.Isaiah 53:5 : S Ps 22:16
B.Isaiah 53:5 : S Ex 28:38; S Ps 39:8; S Jn 3:17; Ro 4:25; 1Co 15:3; Heb 9:28
C.Isaiah 53:5 : Ps 34:18
D.Isaiah 53:5 : S Isa 50:6
E.Isaiah 53:5 : S Isa 9:6; Ro 5:1
F.Isaiah 53:5 : Isa 1:6; Mt 27:26; Jn 19:1
G.Isaiah 53:5 : S Dt 32:39; S 2Ch 7:14; 1Pe 2:24-25

Jesus obviously fulfilled these prophecies. There is just no getting around it. We people of the Book; we Christians know the peace of Isaiah 53, because we know Jesus died in this way for our sin. We know He was pierced for our sins. We know we are blessed and healed by His stripes and wounds. We know that a cursed is on those who deny Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. I suggest Muslims read the whole chapter 53 of Isaiah. There is no way this is a corruption. It is a fulfillment by Jesus that God will ask why people didn't receive it especially when he said He gave the torah and Injil as guidance and light. To say this is a corruption is lame, because the OT and NT confirm each other on the death of Christ. It doesn't get any clearer. One has to be willfully ignorant not to see this or one who buries their head in the sand like an ostrich. I notice my responsesto thread and post or new threads are not being posted quickly as they used to be. Is that so one can think up or contrive answers in an attempt to gainsay the truth I share here?

Initially: Christ (do you think) killed or committed suicide?

Do not remember why, but told us the way

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة شمائل

Initially: Christ (do you think) killed or committed suicide?

Do not remember why, but told us the way

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Sorry, I don't understand this question. Christ didn't commit suicide. When someone has the power to lay down their life and take it back as Christ claimed and did; it is not suicide. You are looking at the prophecy I quoted through a carnal eye, and not through a spiritual eye given by God's grace and wisdom. I have shown you unequivocal Scripture proof for the hope that is in me.
peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Isaiah 53:5New International Version (NIV)



5
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.


Cross references:
A.Isaiah 53:5 : S Ps 22:16
B.Isaiah 53:5 : S Ex 28:38; S Ps 39:8; S Jn 3:17; Ro 4:25; 1Co 15:3; Heb 9:28
C.Isaiah 53:5 : Ps 34:18
D.Isaiah 53:5 : S Isa 50:6
E.Isaiah 53:5 : S Isa 9:6; Ro 5:1
F.Isaiah 53:5 : Isa 1:6; Mt 27:26; Jn 19:1
G.Isaiah 53:5 : S Dt 32:39; S 2Ch 7:14; 1Pe 2:24-25

Jesus obviously fulfilled these prophecies. There is just no getting around it. We people of the Book; we Christians know the peace of Isaiah 53, because we know Jesus died in this way for our sin. We know He was pierced for our sins. We know we are blessed and healed by His stripes and wounds. We know that a cursed is on those who deny Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. I suggest Muslims read the whole chapter 53 of Isaiah. There is no way this is a corruption. It is a fulfillment by Jesus that God will ask why people didn't receive it especially when he said He gave the torah and Injil as guidance and light. To say this is a corruption is lame, because the OT and NT confirm each other on the death of Christ. It doesn't get any clearer. One has to be willfully ignorant not to see this or one who buries their head in the sand like an ostrich. I notice my responsesto thread and post or new threads are not being posted quickly as they used to be. Is that so one can think up or contrive answers in an attempt to gainsay the truth I share here?

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The passage about Isaiah 53 I already answered before and it has nothing to do with your crusifiction :

As for Isaih 53 , Isaiah 53 is a continuation of 52 where the ones talking here are the gentile kings reffering to israel as a singular NOT THE MESSIAH , describing its sorrows , grief , torture and son on
This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

So this text is reffering to israel as a whole in the tongue of gentile kings , this is how jews interperated it and this is what jews told christians within their debates:

I remember that once in a discussion with some whom the Jews regard as learned (i.e. Rabbis) I used these prophecies. At this the Jew said that these prophecies referred to the whole people as though of a single individual, since they were scattered in the dispersion and smitten, that as a result of the scattering of the Jews among the other nations many might become proselytes. In this way he explained the text: "Your form shall be inglorious among men" and "those to whom he was not proclaimed shall see him" and "being a man in calamity"

origen the church father in his debates with jews


http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter17.html

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محمد سني 1989

The passage about Isaiah 53 I already answered before and it has nothing to do with your crusifiction :

As for Isaih 53 , Isaiah 53 is a continuation of 52 where the ones talking here are the gentile kings reffering to israel as a singular NOT THE MESSIAH , describing its sorrows , grief , torture and son on
This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

So this text is reffering to israel as a whole in the tongue of gentile kings , this is how jews interperated it and this is what jews told christians within their debates:

I remember that once in a discussion with some whom the Jews regard as learned (i.e. Rabbis) I used these prophecies. At this the Jew said that these prophecies referred to the whole people as though of a single individual, since they were scattered in the dispersion and smitten, that as a result of the scattering of the Jews among the other nations many might become proselytes. In this way he explained the text: "Your form shall be inglorious among men" and "those to whom he was not proclaimed shall see him" and "being a man in calamity"

origen the church father in his debates with jews


http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/chapter17.html

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The Jews interpret it that way as well, and there is truth to it being Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happened to Israel! The prophecy stands tall in my mind's eye!

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Sorry, I don't understand this question. Christ didn't commit suicide. When someone has the power to lay down their life and take it back as Christ claimed and did; it is not suicide. You are looking at the prophecy I quoted through a carnal eye, and not through a spiritual eye given by God's grace and wisdom. I have shown you unequivocal Scripture proof for the hope that is in me.
peace

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Suicide is one of them kills himself, but Christ in Christianity kill Jews by the Romans

You say that Jesus was crucified for your sake (ie, the same solid) = committed suicide

- Is Jesus gave himself to the Jews and the Romans?
-Are Chose Jesus' death on the cross?

In short: Is Jesus committed suicide or killed at the hands of a strange

We do not discuss the target before responding to questions

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

The Jews interpret it that way as well, and there is truth to it being Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happened to Israel! The prophecy stands tall in my mind's eye!

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Burninglight open your eyes:

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!


peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محمد سني 1989

Burninglight open your eyes:

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!


peace

---

Open your the eyes of your heart and receive Christ. He shall see His seed in this case and prolong His days goes along with the verse "But as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God even to those that believe on His name." Besides, the prophecy doesn't only concern Jesus it does physical Israel as well. It is futile to think that Islam will wipe out the Jews and Christians as is the mission of radical Islam. I believe, however, radical Islam will take over the world, and Christians and Jews very well may be given over into their hands, but it will be short lived.

Peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Open your the eyes of your heart and receive Christ. He shall see His seed in this case and prolong His days goes along with the verse "But as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God even to those that believe on His name." Besides, the prophecy doesn't only concern Jesus it does physical Israel as well. It is futile to think that Islam will wipe out the Jews and Christians as is the mission of radical Islam. I believe, however, radical Islam will take over the world, and Christians and Jews very well may be given over into their hands, but it will be short lived.

Peace

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I am sorry but I still do not see an answer to this :

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

You are so attached to your own idea that you don't address my responses directly

peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محمد سني 1989

I am sorry but I still do not see an answer to this :

This text contains however many manipulations to dellude such a matter , For example :

the text in isiaih 9 says in his death , in the hebrew language it is translated as in his deaths (plural ). Did jesus die many deaths??? or just one according to you !!!!

Another example , in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

You are so attached to your own idea that you don't address my responses directly

peace

---

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them; for instance, we know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. Like I said, the Bible was written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have more for correct nonsense errors whereas you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This answers your question.

Peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them; for instance, we know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. Like I said, the Bible was written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have more for correct nonsense errors whereas you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This answers your question.

Peace

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Do not mix up between topics , you are not allowed to this , we are discussing trinity in another thread


As for this answer , congradulations for since you said this statement :

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them

Unintentionally you have admitted the CORRUPTION of the old testament

So you are between two :

1. either this passage does not talk about Jesus
2. Or the OT is corrupted and still this passage is unreliable

BTW I am sure this is your personal opinion , like always I am debating your personal opinion

peace

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محمد سني 1989

Do not mix up between topics , you are not allowed to this , we are discussing trinity in another thread


As for this answer , congradulations for since you said this statement :

I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts, but we ignore them

Unintentionally you have admitted the CORRUPTION of the old testament

So you are between two :

1. either this passage does not talk about Jesus
2. Or the OT is corrupted and still this passage is unreliable

BTW I am sure this is your personal opinion , like always I am debating your personal opinion

peace

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As I mentioned, I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts that are not corruptions. We know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. This is not changing the subject; it is answering the question asked.

Like I said, the Bible was NOT written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have room to correct nonsense errors and variants; whereas, you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore, the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This does answer your question. There is no doubt the OT prophesied concerning Jesus. Again, nonsense errors and variants are not corruptions; they are more like typos. Like I make on this forum, but I don't have the privilege to correct them like you do.
Peace

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

As I mentioned, I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts that are not corruptions. We know that Jesus didn't die many deaths so we take that variant or nonsense error to mean He died only once as being the intended meaning of the copyist. This is not changing the subject; it is answering the question asked.

Like I said, the Bible was NOT written as a direct dictation from the mouth of God so we have room to correct nonsense errors and variants; whereas, you cannot do this with the Quran. Therefore, the misconception Allah had of Christians considering him the third of God's tri unity is not excusable, IMHO. This does answer your question. There is no doubt the OT prophesied concerning Jesus. Again, nonsense errors and variants are not corruptions; they are more like typos. Like I make on this forum, but I don't have the privilege to correct them like you do.
Peace

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Ok AGAIN FOR THE THOUSAND TIME THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE TRINITY DO NOT MIX UP BETWEEN THREADS ,you have already broken a ton of rules so show me , the readers , and the mediators some respect because this is starting to become redicolous

Second and most importantly here is another contradicting statement you said :

As I mentioned, I admit there are thousands of nonsense errors and variants in the old manuscripts that are not corruptions

Variations and errors are the definition of corruption clearly if you actually knew christianity you would not have dared to say and admit such a thing !!!!

typos are errors in spelling say however this is hebrew and from what I metioned before :


in verse 10 it says :
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The word seed here in both the KJB and the original hebrew refers to a biological son BUT jesus did not have a son !!!

This is not a spelling error since it is a new word on its whole


peace
peace