Jesus is not God in the bible

اقتباس:

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How can we know Jesus, Mohamed (peace be upon him), to have eternal life? The Bible says here that Jesus prayed not only for His disciples, but for those who would believe on Him through their Word. He says thererfore the wolrd hated them.(They were martyred and persecuted

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Nice try and I’ll judge you by your own words as your bible say
Luke 19 :22
'I will judge you by your own words

You said that Jesus prayed

اقتباس:

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Jesus prayed not only for His disciples

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So to whom your God was praying ???

to be continued

اقتباس:

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How can we know Jesus, Mohamed(peace be upon him), to have eternal life? The Bible says here that Jesus prayed not only for His disciples, but for those who would believe on Him through their Word. He says thererfore the wolrd hated them.(They were martyred and persecuted

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lets discuss this all over again
I know that you Christians believe that the only way a person can get saved and go to Heaven is to believe and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior who died for him on the cross to purify him from his sins. Anyone who doesn't believe in this would not be saved.

so let us discuss what the bile say about that

and my question will be what must I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus said: loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbors will cause you to have eternal life:
Luke 10
25. On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26. "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27. He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "

28. "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

Notice that the man's question was straight forward

No other question can be more straight forward than this. Notice how Jesus answered this straight forward question: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart......and love your neighbor as yourself......Do this and you will live."

Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity-lie concept, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here: LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.

It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise

to be continued :p012:

Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person:

Luke 18
18. A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

20. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "

21. "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
22. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

23. When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
24. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!
25. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26. Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
27. Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
28. Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
29. "I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
30. will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."



Again, we see in Luke 18:18 above, the same exact question was asked to Jesus for the second time on a different occasion


يتبع الرد

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

هل الطريقه التي انا اتبعتها جيده ؟

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArbRaPB9nPAz.wBBCmjoBk_h5gt.;_ylv=3?qid=201007202 32042AAIrirz

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232044AAo5f3T

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232054AA1JiwU

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232835AAZz6bw

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0233009AAOeD84

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0233805AAmyIzi

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234238AAKgo8K

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234458AALMex1

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234647AAwtRAa

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0235257AASDQuG
ملاحظه ) بأمكان الاداره ازاله الرد اذا كان الرد يخالف سياسه الموقع

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة mostafa111

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

هل الطريقه التي انا اتبعتها جيده ؟

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArbRaPB9nPAz.wBBCmjoBk_h5gt.;_ylv=3?qid=201007202 32042AAIrirz

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232044AAo5f3T

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232054AA1JiwU

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0232835AAZz6bw

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0233009AAOeD84

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0233805AAmyIzi

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234238AAKgo8K

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234458AALMex1

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0234647AAwtRAa

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question...0235257AASDQuG
ملاحظه ) بأمكان الاداره ازاله الرد اذا كان الرد يخالف سياسه الموقع

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

بارك الله فيك يا أخي

فإنما أنت بلغت فمن شاء استمع و هداه الله و من لم يشأ فإن على الله الحساب

نسأل الله الهداية و جزاك الله كل خير على ما تقوم به و جعل عملك في ميزان حسناتك

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

اقتباس:

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Who is it that takes away the sins of the world? In that same book of John, John the Baptist says: John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Now how could a sinful person take away sin? No, this person had to be sinless. This person had to be God alone Who could fulfill His Law.

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Very nice

let us check together the bible if Jesus was really sinless according to it



now let me ask you what do you call the following sins of Jesus in the bible





1- Treating his mother in a bad way

John 2 -New American Standard Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NASB

3When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine."



4And Jesus said to her, " Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come."



2- Killing 2000 pig without reason

Mark 5 -New American Standard Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NASB

11Now there was a large herd of swine feeding nearby on the mountain.



12The demons implored Him, saying, "Send us into the swine so that we may enter them."



13Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.



to be continued

more and more sins of Jesus in the bible






3- He treated a women very badly while she was asking him for help

Mark 7 -New American Standard Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NASB

26Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.



27And He was saying to her, "Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."



4- Saying to peter (Disciple of Jesus) that he is Satan

33But turning around and seeing His disciples, He rebuked Peter and said, "Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."





to be continued

5- Christ come to cast fire upon earth according to bible

Christ Divides Men
49"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!

50"But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!

51" Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;

52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

53"They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

6- Jesus stole a donkey and colt
Matthew 21 -New American Standard Bible
2saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to Me.

to be continued

thank you

7- Insulting people

Luke 11-New International Version

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...11&version=NIV

39Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?



8- He asked his disciples not to give peace to those who do not deserve

Matthew 10 -New American Standard Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...0&version=NASB



13"If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace

9- He wanted to slay his enemies in front of him



Luke 19 - New American Standard Bible

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NASB



27"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."



10- Jesus asked his disciples to use worldly wealth to gain friends



Luke 16 - New International Version

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...16&version=NIV

9I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

11- Jesus asked his disciples to sell what they have and buy sword

Luke 22 -New International Version

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...22&version=NIV

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one



12 - Jesus insult his disciples



Luke 24- New International Version

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...24&version=NIV

25He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محبة الرحمن

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Nearly all Christians believe that Jesus was and is God. That is what the institutional
church has always taught. Christians professedly rely strongly on the Bible for this belief.
Yet there is not a single verse in the Bible which states unequivocally, “Jesus is God,” or
the like. Moreover, the New Testament (NT) gospels have no statement by Jesus in which
he identifies himself as God. In fact, there are many Bible verses which indicate that
Jesus cannot be God by declaring that only the Father is God

First, and foremost, is one of Jesus’ sayings recorded only in the Gospel of John. The
setting is the Last Supper, right before he was arrested and crucified. He prayed for his
disciples, saying, “Father,… This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true
God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent” (John 17.3). So, Jesus tells the Father that he
is “the only true God” and then distinguishes himself from that one God. Both of these
points clearly indicate that Jesus himself cannot also be God.
Moreover, Jesus identified the Father as the only God. Earlier,
he told his Jewish opponents that the Father is “the one and only God” (John 5.44).

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Most of what you said is true, but it is not all true especially you conclusion which is all wrong. Every Christian will admit that Jesus is not the father God, and no where are there many Bible verses which indicate that Jesus cannot be divine by declaring that only the Father is God. What you fail to understand is Christians believe there is only one God, and that Jesus is His word.

It is written that God exalts His word above all His name. There is no evidence that Muhammad even knew the name of God in the Quran or anywhere. Christians don't believe Jesus is God the father, but we all according to Scripture believe that Jesus is all that God is, but not all there is to God. This is a great mystery, and it is not like anything on earth.

Even God calls Jesus His son, and He even refers to Jesus like this: but to the son He says "But thou OH God...." Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and my God." You ignored to mention that Jesus did and said things that only God could do and say such as "Your sins are forgiven... I and the father are one..." Jesus accepted worship that only belongs to God.

Christians are not obtuse my friend. They don't need to hear Jesus say "BTW, I am God so believe me when I say it" We know who Jesus is. To know Him is to have eternal life. He said, "No man comes to God except through me" Jesus said, "You will die in your sin unless you believe I am He" did you think Jesus was joking?

IHMO, it sounds like He is talking about people that say things like you are saying. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am." If I meditate on these words, I think of when Moses asked God: "Who shall I say sent me?" God responded, "I am that I am." Jesus said, "I am before Abraham" so how can you just blow off all those verses I mentioned and think that one day you will stand before a terrible God and have to explain why you ignored these verses. Personally, I would never trade shoes with you. There are plenty of other Scriptures to show that Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all things and that He is not honored as a prophet unless he is honored above all prophets! To true Christians Jesus is not a messenger; He is the Message!

Burninglight,

Do you know that we as muslims believe that there is one God who has no son and who neither gave birth nor was born and Jesus is his word, messenger and servant ?

We as muslims believe that prophet Jesus Pbuh is the word of God but that does not mean to us that he is God or the son of God
We beleve that God who you name the Father is the God of Jesus Pbuh
Whether you believe this or not, this is what Jesus Pbuh himself believed, he used to call the father ( my God)

John 20
17 Jesus said unto her, “Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say unto them, ‘I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

This is exactly what we believe about Jesus Pbuh, we believe that the father is his God

There are several other verses in the new testament where the Father was described as the God of Jesus Pbuh

You claimed that Jesus Pbuh accepted worship this is completely wrong, actually Jesus Pbuh himself worshipped God

Jesus Pbuh used to fall on the ground while praying to show his poverty to God and that he is a servant of God exactly as we muslims do in our prayers

Mark 14


35 And He went forward a little, and fell on the ground and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him.
36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible unto Thee. Take away this cup from Me; nevertheless not what I will, but what Thou wilt.”
37 And He came back and found them sleeping, and said unto Peter, “Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest thou not watch one hour?
38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.”

39 And again He went away and prayed and spoke the same words.


You claim that Jesus Pbuh accepted worship, you think this is true because the english translations of the Bible say that people worshipped Jesus. The word that is translated to worship is
προσκυνεο

which may just mean kneel or bow

This is the meaning of this word from the Netbible website :




[TR]
[TD="class: content"]1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 3a1) to the Jewish high priests 3a2) to God 3a3) to Christ 3a4) to heavenly beings 3a5) to demons[/TD]
[/TR]

Anyway, I prefer that we chat in one page only not in different pages

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

Burninglight,

Do you know that we as muslims believe that there is one God who has no son and who neither gave birth nor was born and Jesus is his word, messenger and servant ?]

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Yes Arahman, I know what Islam teaches, but when Islam calls Jesus the word of God which we do also; we are able to deduct that the word of God is eternal and uncreated. You are just looking at the physical body of Jesus and not understanding that He preexisted as God's word, and it is written God exalts His word above all His name. You go through great pains to make Jesus look like just an ordinary prophet. "All things are mine" Jesus said the father had given Him all; therefore, he owns all people groups and nations. That means He owns all prophets before and after Him. You just don't know who Jesus is and Satan doesn't want you to know, because that means salvation for your soul that you don't have now. As Jesus said: "You will die in your sin unless you believe I am He" How is it possible that Muslims don't understand Jesus explicit words? Jesus is the word God used to create all things. That is why it is written "All thing were made by Him for Him and through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made."

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

We as muslims believe that prophet Jesus Pbuh is the word of God but that does not mean to us that he is God or the son of God
We beleve that God who you name the Father is the God of Jesus Pbuh
Whether you believe this or not, this is what Jesus Pbuh himself believed, he used to call the father ( my God)

John 20
17 Jesus said unto her, “Touch Me not, for I am not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say unto them, ‘I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

This is exactly what we believe about Jesus Pbuh, we believe that the father is his God]

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Yes, He called God His father and God; so, if He called God is father, why do you say He is not His son? You go through such pains to justify what you want to believe to the point of using things you don't even believe in. That is so sad; I could never used something I don't believe to justify what I want to believe. Why don't you quote that the father called Jesus His son and He calls Him God "But thou Oh God is a Throne Forever...?" Yes, God the father calls Jesus God and commands that He be honored the same has Himself; otherwise, you are not honoring the God you think you love and honor. Why do you want to convince me to not honor the one and only true God and put me in a religion that has uncertainty for my eternal destination? I could never model you and use things I don't believe in the Bible to support my religion such as you are doing. That is so sad friend and I feel so bad for you.

I hope and pray you come to the knowledge of truth my friend in Jesus name.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

There are several other verses in the new testament where the Father was described as the God of Jesus Pbuh

You claimed that Jesus Pbuh accepted worship this is completely wrong, actually Jesus Pbuh himself worshipped God

Jesus Pbuh used to fall on the ground while praying to show his poverty to God and that he is a servant of God exactly as we muslims do in our prayers

Mark 14

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اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

35 And He went forward a little, and fell on the ground and prayed that if it were possible, the hour might pass from Him.
36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible unto Thee. Take away this cup from Me; nevertheless not what I will, but what Thou wilt.”
37 And He came back and found them sleeping, and said unto Peter, “Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest thou not watch one hour?
38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.”

39 And again He went away and prayed and spoke the same words.


You claim that Jesus Pbuh accepted worship, you think this is true because the english translations of the Bible say that people worshipped Jesus. The word that is translated to worship is
which may just mean kneel or bow

This is the meaning of this word from the Netbible website :




[TR]
[TD="class: content"]1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 3a1) to the Jewish high priests 3a2) to God 3a3) to Christ 3a4) to heavenly beings 3a5) to demons[/TD]
[/TR]

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Again I see you going through great pain and jumping through all kinds of loops and hoops to take away from Jesus the reward of His suffering. Why do you bring up Jesus falling on His face to pray God's spares Him from the cross when you don't even believe He died on the cross? Why do you constantly bring scenarios to support Islam when you don't even believe they are true. This is how deep your deception appears to be. I see you deceiving yourself and Allah using deception and admitting he is the best of deceivers and proving he is by making something appear to be true that was not true. What kind of plan do you call that? Making things appear to be what they are is not the work of my God and Savior; it is the work of my adversary who goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour. Jesus said, he is the only way to God, but you seek another way. I wish I could say good luck and mean it but luck will do you NO good.

Arahman,

I responded to your trinity thread after all the writing I did it got lost because you closed the thread; so here is the short to it: I think you are confusing being emotional which are knee jerk responses with emotions which is God given and not necessarily a bad thing. Having emotion doesn't mean you don't use your heart or brain. My responses are carefully deliberated on, articulate and concise. No one has been able to gainsay my posts. So just why would I want to be a slave to the god of Islam when I can be free and a child of the Most high God? Why would I want the uncertainity of my eternal destiny islam has to offer as Abu Bakr points out in the lack of trust he had in the Makr of Allah? I trust him less than that. I see that Muslims seem to be insecure in their faith as well. It shows in the fact that my post have to be screened for approval after all my posting. This tells me that Muslims are not rooted and grounded in their faith like true Christians are.

May God bless you with truth and peace

Look at this even though Muhammad didn't know god's name this video shows what the name of God means! http://youtu.be/1wiBtYITrxM

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Arahman,

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First of all, my name is not Arahman, it's Abd Arahman

Arahman means the most graceful and merciful

This is the name of God

My nickname is Abd Arahman which means the servant of the most merciful or the servant of God

اقتباس:

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I responded to your trinity thread after all the writing I did it got lost because you closed the thread;

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Sorry for this, but I told you I will close the thread
You should give me time to continue my response to all your claims, you can't just interrupt me every now and then
When you write a post, copy it before you submit
So that if for any reason your post is lost, you can easily paste it again

اقتباس:

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so here is the short to it: I think you are confusing being emotional which are knee jerk responses with emotions which is God given and not necessarily a bad thing. Having emotion doesn't mean you don't use your heart or brain. My responses are carefully deliberated on, articulate and concise.

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Burninglight, it will be better if you stop just arguing and think of what others are telling you
You are very emotional
This surely affects your decisions and choices when comparing religions
Some of your arguments are ridiculous because you are just following your emotions
For example you are arguing that because Jesus Pbuh has been born from virgin, he must be God
This is an extremely ridiculous argument and you know it's ridiculous
So simply, God can create a man without a father to show people his power and that he can do what he wants and that he can break all rules of physics and biology if he wants to
The argument that since he has no human father, his father must be God, is an extremely ridiculous argument
What about all the animals that come to life through Parthenogenesis from a mother without a father? Are they sons of God?
Stop being so emotional, in order to stop sticking to such ridiculous arguments and in order to have a sound judgement

اقتباس:

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No one has been able to gainsay my posts.

---

A lot of your posts and arguments have been gainsaid but you can't see this because you are emotional
A typical example of this is your argument that Jesus is divine because he has been born by a virgin

اقتباس:

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So just why would I want to be a slave to the god of Islam when I can be free and a child of the Most high God?

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Actually, according to your Bible, Jesus Pbuh himself is a servant of God

Matthew 12
15 Jesus knew what the Pharisees were planning. So he left that place, and many people followed him. He healed all who were sick, 16 but he warned them not to tell others who he was. 17 This was to give full meaning to what Isaiah the prophet said when he spoke for God:
18 “Here is my servant,
the one I have chosen.
He is the one I love,
and I am very pleased with him.


So do you think that Jesus Pbuh is a servant or a slave of God and you are not ?
It is wirth to mention that the word in the arabic translations of the Bible that is used instead of Servant in Matthew 12 is not خادم ( Khadem) which means servant but is Abd ( عبد) which means slave

Actually according to the Bible you are surely a servant of God
Let's read from Revelation 22

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown them to me.9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I’m a servant just like you and your brothers and sisters, the prophets, and those who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

So the angel, John, the prophets and those who keep the words of the scroll - according to the Bible - are all servants of God
Again the arabic word is Abd which means slave

Surely being a slave or a servant of God is not something bad, it means that God owns you in a way that can be compared to a master owning his slave
And this is surely true, God owns us and he has power and control over every single thing in our lives, we can't take a single breath unless he wills, everything that we have, God gave it to us : life, food , drink, health , money .... etc
In this way we are servants and slaves of God

In Christianity, God is described as a Father to show his love and mercy and men are described as his sons
In islam, we don't describe God as a father and we don't describe ourselves as sons of God, because describing our relation to God in this way has been misused by christians. Some of the early christians used to describe Jesus Pbuh as son of God, to show that God loves him, exactly as David and Solomon has been described as sons of God in the OT. However, after describing Jesus as son of God to show that God loves him, people began to believe that this means that he is God. This is why we don't describe God as a father in Islam or say that we are the sons of God.
However, Prophet Muhammad Pbuh taught us that God is not just as loving and merciful as a father, but that God is more loving and merciful than a mother. There’s a Hadith where a mother had lost her child during a battle, and she was looking for him fearing the worst. When she found him, she held him close and it was one of the most powerful scenes of love and mercy the companions have seen that they started to weep. Our Beloved peace be upon him said, “do you wonder at the mercy this mother had for her child? God is far more merciful to His servants than this mother is to her child!”

اقتباس:

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Why would I want the uncertainity of my eternal destiny islam has to offer as Abu Bakr points out in the lack of trust he had in the Makr of Allah? I trust him less than that. I see that Muslims seem to be insecure in their faith as well.

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In Islam, you are 100 % safe as long as you believe in God, all of his messengers, all of his books and in judgement day and you do good deeds.
This is the guarantee that the holy Quran gives to all people :


(من عمل صالحا من ذكر أو أنثى وهو مؤمن فلنحيينه حياة طيبة ولنجزينهم أجرهم بأحسن ما كانوا يعملون)

النحل 97

( Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer – We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do.) 15:97

So your security in Islam, depends on believing in the religion of God and doing rightousness
However, we don't think that we are sure that we are 100% safe in judgement day, because we don't know how our deeds will be at our death ? At our death, will we be believers doing good deeds ? If so, we are safe but we don't know how will we be at our death.

What about christianity?
You think that you are safe because God made the Jews and Romans kill his son or himself on the cross !!!
Surely, this is a very strange concept
However, let me ask you a question
Do you think that you are secure even if you kill other people or rob them or do very bad deeds just because you believe that God has sacrificed his son ?
If so, then surely christianity is not the true religion because it encourages people to do bad deeds just because they believe that they are secure whatever their deeds are, as long as they believe that Jesus Pbuh was crucified
If you think that to be secure, you must do good deeds, then this is the same as Islam, so there is no point at all in your objection
In Islam we have hope in God and in the same time we fear him
We hope that he will forgive us and have mercy on us and in the same time we fear his punishment
Our fear from god prevents us from doing bad deeds
Abu Bakr did not say that he does not trust God of course, but what he said means that he will fear God even if one of his legs was in paradise and the other is still outside it

اقتباس:

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It shows in the fact that my post have to be screened for approval after all my posting. This tells me that Muslims are not rooted and grounded in their faith like true Christians are.

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Well, this is just what you want to think
I told you, we do this with all members whether muslims or christians
We do this with christians, because some of them speak about Islam and Prophet MuhammadPbuh in a very rude offending way

اقتباس:

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May God bless you with truth and peace

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Thank you

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Look at this even though Muhammad didn't know god's name this video shows what the name of God means! http://youtu.be/1wiBtYITrxM

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I don't know why do you say that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh didn't know God's name?
This is completely wrong.
Prove it if you can.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

This is how deep your deception appears to be. I see you deceiving yourself and Allah using deception and admitting he is the best of deceivers and proving he is by making something appear to be true that was not true. What kind of plan do you call that? Making things appear to be what they are is not the work of my God and Savior; it is the work of my adversary who goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour.

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First of all, read this
http://www.answering-christianity.co..._deceivers.htm

اقتباس:

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1- What does the Glorious Quran Say?Allah Almighty Said in the Glorious Quran:

[TR]
[TD="width: 39%, bgcolor: #D5F1FF"]Noble Verse(s) 8:30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 39%, bgcolor: #EAF4FF"]Pickthall:[008:030] And when those who disbelieve plot against thee (O Muhammad) to wound thee fatally, or to kill thee or to drive thee forth; they plot, but Allah (also) plotteth; and Allah is the best of plotters.
Arabic (Read from right to left. Also, all png image files: [1] [2]):
‏8:30 واذ يمكر بك الذين كفروا ليثبتوك او يقتلوك او يخرجوك ويمكرون ويمكر الله والله خير الماكرين[/TD]
[/TR]

There are few important points to notice here:
1- The disbelievers and the evil ones plotted against Islam.
2- Allah Almighty plotted on the disbelievers' plots, and turned their plots on their heads.
3- Allah Almighty is the best of plotters.
So does this mean that Allah Almighty is the Best or Greatest of all deceivers? The answer is a qualified yes. Allah Almighty does not plot against Good. Allah Almighty plots only against evil. Therefore, Allah Almighty plots against and deceives the enemies of Allah Almighty. This is further supported in the following Noble Verses:
"We have always sent messengers who were proficient in the language of their people, so they could explain the matter clearly. Allah guides or leads astray whomever He pleases. He is the most Powerful, the Wisest! (The Noble Quran, 14:4)"
"Had Allah wished, He would have created you all as a single nation. But He guides or leads astray whomever He pleases. And you would very definitely be interrogated regarding everything you used to do! (The Noble Quran, 16:93)"
So the statement that the Islam haters usually utter, "the GOD of Islam is the greatest of all deceivers", is false, because Allah Almighty doesn't deceive the Good Believers. Allah Almighty only deceives the enemies of Allah Almighty:
If Allah Almighty also plots against good, then the Islam haters' statement would be true.

But since Allah Almighty does not plot against Good, then the Islam haters' general statement is false. It is only true on them, and not on what is Good.

So yes indeed. Allah Almighty is the Best one to deceive and misguide the doomed-to-Hell disbelievers.

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This is similar to describing God as Jealous in both the Bible and Islam

Deutronomy 6:15
New International Version
for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Describing someone as jealous may be a bad description, but when we describe God as jealous, this description if understood in the proper way is not a bad description

Regarding the crucifiction of Jesus Pbuh, yes we believe that God deceived those who wanted to crucify him
The jews want to kill one of the messengers and prophets of God, one of his followers deceived him and told the jews and romans about his place
What a lot of muslims believe - and this may be true however we are not sure that this is 100% true - is that God made Judah look like Jesus Pbuh and the romans took him and crucified him and in this way Jesus Pbuh was saved
What's the problem in this?
Judah betrayed Jesus Pbuh and tried to help his enemies crucify him, God saved his messenger Jesus Pbuh and caused the one who betrayed him to be crucified
what's your objection ?

I'll answer the rest of your first post later on ....

اقتباس:

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Jesus is not God in the bible

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May Allah bless you brother 3ABD-ERRAHMAN


Old Bible Proves Quran is Right :p012:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT3m6eJYXJ0

This video is an Islamic message; it has nothing to do with what Jesus' brothers believed about Jesus. It is full of speculation, assumptions, conjecture and poor inferences. Jesus' brothers saying nothing about Jesus death of the cross doesn't mean they didn't believe it didn't happen for our sin. The video is using silence in the Bible to give their Islamic interpretation. Jude says this Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James,

To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

2 May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

Judgment on False Teachers

3 Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Jude
Our common salvation is our Lord Jesus the son of the living God who died for our sin and rose from the dead. Those that reject this message do so at their own eternal peril. Satan will give you a way out of believing the only hope of glory you have such as lying videos like this. Jude considered himself a servant of Jesus His Lord. The brothers of Jesus knew as Mary did that Jesus was and is divine and special beyond all prophets, because of His virgin birth, mission and relationship to God as His word . That made His father God in a unique sense that Muslims, IMHO, deny to their own shame and demise. Deedat who quoted in Arabic "Truth smashes the brains of falsehood" before which debate seems to have had his brains smashed in the end for 9 years before his death. I say learning from the mistakes of others is far better than having to learn from your own, because it may be too late to learn from your own when it comes to matters such as these. I pray that God smashes the brains of the lies against Jesus. May Jesus receive the reward of His suffering!

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

First of all, read this
http://www.answering-christianity.co..._deceivers.htm



This is similar to describing God as Jealous in both the Bible and Islam

Deutronomy 6:15
New International Version
for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Describing someone as jealous may be a bad description, but when we describe God as jealous, this description if understood in the proper way is not a bad description

Regarding the crucifiction of Jesus Pbuh, yes we believe that God deceived those who wanted to crucify him
The jews want to kill one of the messengers and prophets of God, one of his followers deceived him and told the jews and romans about his place
What a lot of muslims believe - and this may be true however we are not sure that this is 100% true - is that God made Judah look like Jesus Pbuh and the romans took him and crucified him and in this way Jesus Pbuh was saved
What's the problem in this?
Judah betrayed Jesus Pbuh and tried to help his enemies crucify him, God saved his messenger Jesus Pbuh and caused the one who betrayed him to be crucified
what's your objection ?

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With all due respect I beg your leave to but in on this point.. But.. I see your post shows IMHO a lack of understanding of deception and the dangers behind it.


It was God himself who used the term "jealous" to describe an aspect of his personality in this instance, so I'm not sure why the term would be a matter of criticism unless a person is not aware of the fact that there is actually a "righteous" form of jealousy. The Scriptures speak of 2 types of jealousy (both a positive and a negative one). The negative or "unrighteous" type of jealousy (which humans tend to display the most) is based on selfishness, greed, ambition, covetousness, and a desire to gain possession or domination of something which legally or rightfully belongs to someone else. Those negative qualities are not what God is referring to when he describes himself as being jealous. I don't know how you view "jealously" in relation to Allah, but for sure the Bible inference is not negative.

However, the terms deceiving or plotting does have more negative implications than positive. Neither of which I can attribute to a Holy God.

To deceive is deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain.


synonyms: swindle, defraud, cheat, trick, hoodwink, hoax, dupe, take in, mislead, delude, fool, outwit, misguide, lead on, inveigle, seduce, ensnare, entrap, beguile, double-cross.


To plot .. secretly make plans to carry out (an illegal or harmful action).
synonyms: plan, scheme, arrange, organize, lay, hatch, concoct, devise, frame, think up, dream up, cook up, brew, conceive,
conspire, scheme, participate in a conspiracy, intrigue, collude, connive,



This "scheme" of Allah to make someone appear to have died in the place of Jesus makes no sense. If we are led to believe throughout scripture and by the words of Jesus Himself that He was sent to die for us. Then in fact He does not die.. But someone else does. Who is deceived? We are.. His followers. Why would Jesus spend His mission teaching one thing then betray us all at the end.. Thus leading us astray. The act of crucifixion and a death was not the only requirement.. It had to be the death Jesus as a sinless being.. Not just some random guy that may have been Judas or may have been some other.. A scenario you have no proof of and is nothing but conjecture. Besides the Jews did not simply want to kill Jesus because He was another prophet or messenger of God.. They wished Him dead because they did not believe He was who He said He was.. The Messiah. The charged Him with blasphemy for claiming to be God. His death meant nothing to them because to them he was a false Messiah.. So they were not deceived. The Romans who carried out the sentence? They only knew of Jesus as a condemned man who was to be executed according to their laws.. So they were not deceived. The only people who would have been deceived by this cruel deception would have been the followers of Jesus Christ. Were we deceived? No.. Because we know that Jesus is who He claims to be, He did die for us and He rose again conquering death and lives still so we can also enjoy life everlasting.

So... The only people truly deceived are those who do not believe in Jesus and do not accept Him as their redeemer. But that deception is not from God.


My objection to your scenario is it does not make sense. There is no sense in Islam accepting the virgin birth of Jesus, claiming to respect Jesus as a Prophet confirming the belief He is the Messiah whilst denying the crucifixion ever happened. For an event holding such a monumental position in Christianity as the crucifixion I would have expected, had God made and error thereby leading His people through deception into false belief then God would have been clearer in the Quran on this matter and not leave any ifs, buts or maybes.. I do not mean that to sound disrespectful, but if I am to be honest then that is my considered opinion.

Peace.

As I mentioned, Jesus' brothers saying nothing about Jesus death of the cross doesn't mean they didn't believe it happen for our sin. Jude calls himself not a brother of Jesus but a servant and he refers to James as is brother. Look at what James said, "My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory." James 2
When we have faith in someone, and call him Lord, that shows a worshipping spirit. You don't put your faith in just a man, They knew Jesus was way above them spiritual, and it had nothing to do with Him being a prophet. They knew He was and is King of King, Lord of Lords and a prophet's prophet. They know Jesus was and is the Word of God; this could be said of no other prophet ever. If Muhammad were from my God and Creator, he would have been preaching Jesus Christ and exalting Him. Anyone trying to exalt God without lifting up Jesus is not communication past their own ceiling.
May God guide you to truth

Will be back either on Friday or Saturday

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

Will be back either on Friday or Saturday

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Why did you lock our thread of discussion after you got in the last word?

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

I don't know why do you say that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh didn't know God's name?
This is completely wrong.
Prove it if you can.

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What is God's name according to Islam's messenger friend?

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

First of all, my name is not Arahman, it's Abd Arahman

Arahman means the most graceful and merciful

This is the name of God.

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Okay, I accept that God is called Allah in Arabic and that the name of Islam's god is Arahman, but it is not His name according to the Jews and Christians. Perhaps that is why Allah considers us the worse of creatures in the Quran which is less than a dog, cat or insect/ worm.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

Burninglight, it will be better if you stop just arguing and think of what others are telling you
You are very emotional
This surely affects your decisions and choices when comparing religions
Some of your arguments are ridiculous because you are just following your emotions

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Please don't go there.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

For example you are arguing that because Jesus Pbuh has been born from virgin, he must be God
This is an extremely ridiculous argument and you know it's ridiculous
So simply, God can create a man without a father to show people his power and that he can do what he wants and that he can break all rules of physics and biology if he wants to
The argument that since he has no human father, his father must be God, is an extremely ridiculous argument
What about all the animals that come to life through Parthenogenesis from a mother without a father? Are they sons of God?
Stop being so emotional, in order to stop sticking to such ridiculous arguments and in order to have a sound judgement

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I never said Jesus was God because He was born of a virgin. You said I am saying that which I haven't said, and that is the only way you can gainsay me falsely. Now you stir up the emotion of laughter in me, LOL.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

A lot of your posts and arguments have been gainsaid but you can't see this because you are emotional
A typical example of this is your argument that Jesus is divine because he has been born by a virgin.

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Go ahead and patronize me again and again. I have already mentioned how you gainsay me, LOL

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

Actually, according to your Bible, Jesus Pbuh himself is a servant of God

So do you think that Jesus Pbuh is a servant or a slave of God and you are not ?
It is wirth to mention that the word in the arabic translations of the Bible that is used instead of Servant in Matthew 12 is not خادم ( Khadem) which means servant but is Abd ( عبد) which means slave

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15"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. Jn. 15
But for as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become the sons of God, but I don't mind being a servant of God either. You can be both. Jesus said the greatest among you will be your servant. Jesus made himself a servant of His disciples by washing their feet. We see the term servant differently friend. I have the understanding my God gave me for it.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

In Christianity, God is described as a Father to show his love and mercy and men are described as his sons
In islam, we don't describe God as a father and we don't describe ourselves as sons of God, because describing our relation to God in this way has been misused by christians. Some of the early christians used to describe Jesus Pbuh as son of God, to show that God loves him, exactly as David and Solomon has been described as sons of God in the OT. However, after describing Jesus as son of God to show that God loves him, people began to believe that this means that he is God. This is why we don't describe God as a father in Islam or say that we are the sons of God.
However, Prophet Muhammad Pbuh taught us that God is not just as loving and merciful as a father, but that God is more loving and merciful than a mother. There’s a Hadith where a mother had lost her child during a battle, and she was looking for him fearing the worst. When she found him, she held him close and it was one of the most powerful scenes of love and mercy the companions have seen that they started to weep. Our Beloved peace be upon him said, “do you wonder at the mercy this mother had for her child? God is far more merciful to His servants than this mother is to her child!”

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If he taught you that, what is wrong with considering God your father? When a child speaks to his parents he doesn't say "Oh my great and merciful loving masterful mother with father's permission may your slave I beg you go and get a glass of milk from the refrigerator" LOL

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

In Islam, you are 100 % safe as long as you believe in God, all of his messengers, all of his books and in judgement day and you do good deeds.
This is the guarantee that the holy Quran gives to all people :


(من عمل صالحا من ذكر أو أنثى وهو مؤمن فلنحيينه حياة طيبة ولنجزينهم أجرهم بأحسن ما كانوا يعملون)

النحل 97

( Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer – We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do.) 15:97

So your security in Islam, depends on believing in the religion of God and doing rightousness
However, we don't think that we are sure that we are 100% safe in judgement day, because we don't know how our deeds will be at our death ? At our death, will we be believers doing good deeds ? If so, we are safe but we don't know how will we be at our death.

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Abu Bakr who was Islam's prophet's right hand man couldn't say what you said; yet you could. He said, "I couldn't trust the Makr of Allah is I had one foot in paradise and one on earth" You are telling me that bakr meant something different than what he said. If he didn't say what he meant, why didn't he say what he meant.

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

What about christianity?
You think that you are safe because God made the Jews and Romans kill his son or himself on the cross !!!
Surely, this is a very strange concept
However, let me ask you a question
Do you think that you are secure even if you kill other people or rob them or do very bad deeds just because you believe that God has sacrificed his son ?
If so, then surely christianity is not the true religion because it encourages people to do bad deeds just because they believe that they are secure whatever their deeds are, as long as they believe that Jesus Pbuh was crucified
If you think that to be secure, you must do good deeds, then this is the same as Islam, so there is no point at all in your objection
In Islam we have hope in God and in the same time we fear him
We hope that he will forgive us and have mercy on us and in the same time we fear his punishment
Our fear from god prevents us from doing bad deeds
Abu Bakr did not say that he does not trust God of course, but what he said means that he will fear God even if one of his legs was in paradise and the other is still outside it

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I have addressed this. I don't think I am saved; I know it. We are saved by God's grace through faith. it is not according to what we did or do. It is according to what Christ did. I know I am saved because of the righteousness of Christ who creates in me the will to do according to God's good pleasure and not according to what I consider good deeds. You are trust in the arm of the flesh to do good deeds for God which cam never make up for the wrong deeds you've done. Just like in a court of law. If I murder someone and then repent and start doing good deeds, the court will not let me go and justice is not served until I pay for my crime with my life. Jesus paid for my crime. That is why I know I am safe. To God I am the righteousness of Christ . You have nothing to atone for the wrongs you have done against God and that you are yet to do. This is tantamount to being on death row as a slave prisoner as the guards walk you through the chamber hall shouting out "Dead man walking dead man walking."

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة 3abd Arahman

Well, this is just what you want to think
I told you, we do this with all members whether muslims or christians
We do this with christians, because some of them speak about Islam and Prophet MuhammadPbuh in a very rude offending way
Thank you

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Well, I hope not to be rude about your prophet, but I hope you can understand that I don't see him as mine. And I don't believe things add up. IOW, I don't believe a Muslim most make over a hundred posts before he or she can post directly and Pandora has had over 500 posts as she mentioned without saying anything negative about Islam, and she cannot post directly. This is the sense of justice I feel I can expect for Islam; Islam's messenger and god thanks to forum policy you described. Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. To know about one's religion, we can see how they treat others and come to our own conclusions. I could be wrong, but I am just calling it honestly the way I see it.