Thread: Something so strange about Christians!

Jesus said to them“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.” John 5:39

So why do not they search the Scriptures?

Shouldn’t they listen to Jesus and search the Scriptures?

They should start by the Gospels first
Because if they search the gospels, they will find many miracles Jesus performed in front of the disciples, and people.

This crowd of people, and these disciples were among them who restored sight to them or brought them to life or healed them and cleanse them from leprosy or healed from strokes and rickets.

Those crowds of people, disciples, and patients what did they all say about Christ and what did they do?

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
The blind

After Jesus returned his eyesight

People asked him what do you say about Jesus? Jesus, who returned your eye sight?
He said: He is a prophet, why did not he say that he is God or divine or that he is my God?
Why didn’t anyone correct him that that was wrong? And ask him to say that he was God?

“They said to the blind man again, “What do you say about Him because He opened your eyes?”
He said, “He is a prophet” John 9:17

So are we meant to disbelieve the blind person who witnessed this, and believe who never met Jesus or heard from him?

In fact why Jesus did not correct the guy: and said to him how can you say I am a prophet? I am God I have just opened your eyes?
………………………………………………………………………………….
The blind man who was begging

“that a certain blind man sat by the road begging. And hearing a multitude passing by, he asked what it meant. So they told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. And he cried out, saying, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” Luke 18:35-38

Why didn’t he call him God instead of son of David?

“So Jesus stood still and commanded him to be brought to Him. And when he had come near, He asked him, saying, “What do you want Me to do for you?”

He said, “Lord, that I may receive my sight.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.” Luke 18:40-42


Jesus told him his faith healed him, i.e his faith in God has healed him, and did not say I healed you, my power healed you.

And immediately he received his sight, and followed Him, glorifying God. And all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.” Luke 18:43

So he glorified God not Jesus, and the crowd who saw the miracle glorified God, and not Jesus. Jesus did not object to that, and did not say glorify me, I healed him.

“Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.” Matthew 9:8
……………………………………………………………………………
The sick of the palsy

“(he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day.” Luke 5:24-26

And he arose and went to his house, glorifying God and did not glorify Christ
Indeed, the crowd also glorified God and did not glorify Christ

Yes they glorified God, saying, We have seen something strange today, they saw the miracle of a Prophet.

They glorified God almighty, and did not glorify Christ or said you are our God, and he did not instruct them to do so.
……………………………………………………

The leper

So what about the poor leper?
Lepers in Jewish law considered unclean
And leprosy patient lives lonely life

Leviticus 13:44-46

So the outcast leper
Ask to be healed and his ten colleagues
So he get healed and he glorify God with a loud voice and did not glorify Christ


“And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,: Luke 17:12-15
………………………………………………………………………………………………….


The dead man

“Now it happened, the day after, that He went into a city called Nain; and many of His disciples went with Him, and a large crowd. And when He came near the gate of the city, behold, a dead man was being carried out, the only son of his mother; and she was a widow. And a large crowd from the city was with her. When the Lord saw her, He had compassion on her and said to her, “Do not weep.” 14 Then He came and touched the open coffin, and those who carried him stood still. And He said, “Young man, I say to you, arise.” So he who was dead sat up and began to speak. And He presented him to his mother. Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has risen up among us”; and, “God has visited His people.” Luke 7:11-16

So the crowed glorified God, and said a great prophet has risen up among us, they did not say a great God!

Those crowds of the disciples and mourners
Is it possible that they did not see the truth?
And those who never met him or heard from him saw the truth ?
Does it make sense that Jesus left them astray?
Does it make sense that Jesus did not guide them to the truth, and he did not explain to them that he is God in trinity “The One God exists in Three Persons and One Substance”
If all this crowd did not know the truth about Jesus even though, they walked with Jesus, followed him, and saw all his great miracles.
Does it make sense that the enemy of Jesus knew him better!

Who would think that, the one, who never met Jesus, heard Jesus or saw his miracles more knowledgeable than all the crowds that saw these great miracles.

As these crowds, that witnessed these great miracles glorified God and not Jesus.

These crowds that Jesus declared in front of them

“I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.” John 5:30

“Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me” John 8:42

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” John 12:49

Yes and Yes
Jesus does not have the authority to speak of himself and whoever doe not have the authority is not God
Who sent Christ commanded, what to say and what to speak
In other words, God sent Christ and ordered him not to speak of himself, but commanded him to speak what God tell him.

……………………………………….
The miracle of multiplying food

Two fish and five loaves in Jesus’s hand fed five thousand men
Those who saw the miracle of the five loaves
They were among thousands who ate them and collected the remains
They too believed that Jesus is a true prophet of God

“Then those men, when they had seen the sign that Jesus did, said, “This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” John 6:14

……………………………………………………………………………………


And the disciples who missed Jesus
They were sad, and talking about Christ
Jesus talked to them
the intensity of the grief thought they were talking to a stranger
when Jesus asked them about Christ they said : So they said to Him, “The things concerning Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people” Luke 24:19
………………………………………………………………………………….

If Christians searched the scriptures

With rational and unbiased mind-set

If every intelligent person searched the scriptures without the control of the church or priests

He will find that

Christ announced to everyone that he was a prophet and not God or son of God

He will also find that Christ declared in front of the crowd, and in front of the disciples not seek his glory

“And I do not seek My own glory” John 8:50

Because of this the crowds did not glorify Christ, and glorified God, as Jesus ordered them to do so.

They understood that Christ was a messenger sent from God sent to them.

They understood that Jesus does not speak of himself, and he is sent with a message to do the will of God.

They understood that whatever Jesus did, he did it with the will of God.

They understood that Christ called them to the worship of God alone and glorify and praise God alone .

They understood that Jesus was a messenger of God and they have to believe in him and his message.

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.” John 17:3-4

Yes those crowds knew

That God is the true God, alone without partner

And those crowds knew

Christ the Messenger of God, and the Prophet

Came

To glorify God on the earth and follow the commandments which first and foremost

The Lord our God is one Lord

And ordered them to keep God’s commandments.

…………………………………………………………………………………..
Jesus said to his disciples, and announced to the many crowds that he is a man and the son of man
He explained to the disciples, and also the masses

“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent” Numbers 23:19

He explained to them and made it clear , saying,

“I have spoken openly to the world,’ Jesus replied. ‘I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret” John 18:20
……………………………………………………

The truth is crystal clear

In summary

Anyone who believes that Jesus is God he also must believe that Jesus was a liar and deceptive
He also must believe that disciples and the many crowds were stupid and blind

Although they were many they could not recognise Christ as God despite watching him and his great miracles.

Dear friend choose for yourself

To be

With Christ, the Prophet sincere messenger, as he said and announced that explicitly

Or to be

With his divinity that was built on misinterpretation, deception, fraud, fear, mystery and delusion.

The matter is serious and, the consequences is grave.

The true believer in his faith is looking for the right path to please his lord.

I pray to God to guide us all to the truth



Written by brother Abu Tariq May Allah reward him



http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t200610.html

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

The truth is crystal clear
[/SIZE]

In summary

Anyone who believes that Jesus is God he also must believe that Jesus was a liar and deceptive
He also must believe that disciples and the many crowds were stupid and blind

Although they were many they could not recognise Christ as God despite watching him and his great miracles.

Dear friend choose for yourself

To be

With Christ, the Prophet sincere messenger, as he said and announced that explicitly

Or to be

With his divinity that was built on misinterpretation, deception, fraud, fear, mystery and delusion.

The matter is serious and, the consequences is grave.

The true believer in his faith is looking for the right path to please his lord.

I pray to God to guide us all to the truth
Written by brother Abu Tariq May Allah reward him

Every time the people glorified God they were glorifying Jesus for His ministry. Jesus said God was His father, and God said Jesus was "His beloved son." In fact, the father called Jesus "Oh God" Heb. 1., and Jesus said He and the father were one. He didn't say one in purpose only; he said "if you have seen me you have seen the father." You cherry pick the Bible to make it say what you want to believe. Jesus said and did things that no other prophet could say or do such as forgive sin. Jesus never said He was a messenger, because He knew He was the Message and so do true Christians know this. Jesus accepted when people worshipped Him, and He never said He wasn't divine. He said the father was greater, but we understand that the father was greater in office, position and function, but they were very much equal in nature, essence and character for He is the son of the living God Muslims fail to see. He was and is the word of God made human. God always exalts His word above all his name, but Islam like JWs exalt the name above His word. Christians will not put the cart before the horse.

peace

Peace

You cherry pick the Bible to make it say what you want to believe.

Actually you ( Christians ) do that, and it is not even cherry picking actually, you will need a microscope to find the relevance. The thread is full of clear evidences from your book, telling us all those who witnessed the miracles, called him a prophet and glorified God.

You didn’t address any of the points. How do you take been called a prophet, not by one but thousands of people and he didn’t correct any of them.

He said the father was greater, but we understand that the father was greater in office, position and function,

I am sorry what do you mean office? If one is greater than another, that makes them two not one!

Every time the people glorified God they were glorifying Jesus


And how do you know that?? How come that no one of those he healed, did not say oh Jesus glory to you, not single one although Christians now days do that, and glorify Jesus. So those healed must got the wrong message, and Jesus left them astray!

In regards to Jesus forgiving sins, and accepting worships those warrant separate threads, which I will address.

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.

Quote

And how do you know that?? How come that no one of those he healed, did not say oh Jesus glory to you, not single one although Christians now days do that, and glorify Jesus. So those healed must got the wrong message, and Jesus left them astray!

In regards to Jesus forgiving sins, and accepting worships those warrant separate threads, which I will address.

Matthew 2:11 (ESV)
11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Matthew 21:9 (ESV)
9 And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!”

Matthew 14:33 (ESV)
33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 (ESV)
9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

John 20:28 (ESV)
28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Hebrews 1:6 "And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, "Let all the angels of God worship him." (NLT)

Matthew 8:2 "And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying 'Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.'" (KJV)

Matthew 9:18. "As Jesus was saying this, the leader of a synagogue came and knelt down [worshipped] before him and said..." (NLT)

John 9:35-38. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.”

peace unto you

Pandora, which bit of I will address it in another thread that you didn’t get? Or is it just habit of yours derailing threads?

You both ignored all the evidences in this thread " You didn’t address any of the points. How do you take been called a prophet, not by one but thousands of people and he didn’t correct any of them"

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

Pandora, which bit of I will address it in another thread that you didn’t get? Or is it just habit of yours derailing threads?

You both ignored all the evidences in this thread " You didn’t address any of the points. How do you take been called a prophet, not by one but thousands of people and he didn’t correct any of them"

It's not hard sweetie .. I'm sure you have the power to have my replies moved to your nice new thread if you so wish to. :)

you gave no "evidences" just a load of opinions. So I don't see there's much to answer that has not been already answered in other threads. There is no problem for Christians to see Christ as a prophet and by doing so does not negate Christ as son of God, word of God.. Lord... Messiah .. Or any of the numerous titles by which He is referred to in the Bible. Jesus is all things to all people. You are measuring by your narrow view and understanding of what a prophet is... As opposed to an Apostle or messenger or disciple. A prophet is one who prophesies..

As a side note Jesus never corrected anyone who called Him Son of God... Or offered Him worship either.. (my post shows that Jesus was indeed worshipped in His lifetime and NOT only after His death and resurrection). For sure if you believe that Jesus was a prophet of God, how do you explain that as a prophet He would not understand that accepting worship or not rebuking worship directed at Him was not the right thing to do. We know Jesus knew all worship is for God alone as that's what He taught us.. So it's quite a conundrum for sure. I expect you can get round this as you usually do and shout "biblical corruption" and these claims were added later by unknown peoples for reasons unknown.. Where's your proof? The onus is upon yourself by making such claims.

Basically we KNOW Jesus.. You don't ... You know Isa. They are not the same person. I think Isa is prophet Mohammed's idea of what Jesus should be.. In order for Jesus to fit in with the Quran because the Biblical Jesus does NOT fit the remit. Your salvation lies with Christ Jesus, God has decreed this. You choose to take another route, fair enough your choice. For me when Jesus said He is the ONLY way to the God the father I believe He meant it in truth and He did not lie. Even your Quran tells you that, it just omits the most important aspects of His teachings. That's why IMHO you are lost.

Peace unto you

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

[SIZE=5]You cherry pick the Bible to make it say what you want to believe.

[COLOR=#0000cd]Actually you ( Christians ) do that, and it is not even cherry picking actually, you will need a microscope to find the relevance. The thread is full of clear evidences from your book, telling us all those who witnessed the miracles, called him a prophet and glorified God.]

I am sure we do, but Muslims do too from the Bible and Quran. Jesus was considered a prophet and they did glorify God, I never denied this, but they also worshipped Him, and He forgave sin. No one tried to take away from the glory due to Jesus. God glorified Him with the glory He had from before all creation. Muslims and JWs try to take away glory from whom it is due. In fact, even God calls Jesus "God." It is you that doesn't address the main points of the issue.

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

[SIZE=5]You didn’t address any of the points. How do you take been called a prophet, not by one but thousands of people and he didn’t correct any of them.

I never said Jesus wasn't a prophet. I said He wasn't a messenger. He is the Message. I do address your points, but I cannot post directly like you, and sometimes my post don't get posted. This forum has discriminated against the minority of Christians on here to give them a disadvantage that we have to contend with and that you don't. So why don't you think about that? Why do Muslims have to give us a disadvantage on their forum?
He said the father was greater, but we understand that the father was greater in office, position and function,

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

[SIZE=5][COLOR=#ff0000]
[COLOR=#0000cd]I am sorry what do you mean office? If one is greater than another, that makes them two not one!]

I never said Jesus was the father. The Bible says He is the exact representation of all that God is. This could be said of no other prophet. For lack of a better way to put it, Jesus is all that God is but nor all there is to God! If you don't know what I mean by less in position or office and function because he was limited as the son of man, I don't know what to tell you. Jesus was never less in character, nature and essence to God that is why God even God called Him His Son and God! But you ignore my responses saying I don't respond. Why???

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

[SIZE=5]
Every time the people glorified God they were glorifying Jesus

[COLOR=#0000cd]
And how do you know that?? How come that no one of those he healed, did not say oh Jesus glory to you, not single one although Christians now days do that, and glorify Jesus. So those healed must got the wrong message, and Jesus left them astray!]

They worshipped Him and when Thomas put his finger in the side of Jesus crucifixion wound He called Jesus "My Lord and my God" JWs try to say that it was just an expression but we Christians know better but Muslims. I know this not just from the Bible, but I know it in my spirit, because God has given me His spirit and it bears witness with mine that I know. Can you tell someone what a strawberry taste like if they never had one? I can't explain the witness to you. You have to experience it for yourself. I just speak the truth from God regarding the good news you don't want to hear.

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

[SIZE=5][COLOR=#ff0000]

In regards to Jesus forgiving sins, and accepting worships those warrant separate threads, which I will address.]

You could have addressed it here. You are stalling, and I understand

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.

I do have peace, and I do follow the guidance given me from the Scripture revealed to me by the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God wants me to know Him more and make Him known.

Peace

You could have addressed it here. You are stalling, and I understand

What do you understand?? my time? how I will fit it in my time, I am not stalling, it is just warrant another thread, and I am writing it, I just do not post for the sake of posting, I do my research before I write, that why it is annoying when I write something, and people talk in another topic. You have raised points within this thread and I will address them.

Quote

Originally Posted by huria

You could have addressed it here. You are stalling, and I understand

What do you understand?? my time? how I will fit it in my time, I am not stalling, it is just warrant another thread, and I am writing it, I just do not post for the sake of posting, I do my research before I write, that why it is annoying when I write something, and people talk in another topic. You have raised points within this thread and I will address them.

I have saved you the time and started a thread on it already.

Every time the people glorified God they were glorifying Jesus for His ministry

How is that please state your evidence, where did people glorified Jesus peace upon him??
Jesus declared in front of the crowd, and in front of the disciples he doesn't seek his glory

“And I do not seek My own glory” John 8:50

Jesus also said

"He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me" John 12:44


Jesus said He and the father were one. He didn't say one in purpose only;

I and my father are one. [John 10:30] it actually means that they are one in purpose.

Similar language is used in another part of the Bible:

[John 17:30] - "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me"..

The original Greek word used for ‘one’ is identical in both verses. Does this mean that the 13 disciples are one person? Of course not, it's purely referring to them all being one in purpose!

Jesus accepted when people worshiped Him,

This is been addressed now in this thread

Jesus said and did things that no other prophet could say or do such as forgive sin

The only verse you have for such a claim (forgiving sins) is one verse :

- When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” [Mark 2:5-7]

If that was true that doesn’t make him divine as Jesus told the disciples they can also forgive sins:

- [John 20:23] - "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
Were the disciples also God incarnate?

Jesus never said He was a messenger

To the contrary he always said he was a messenger

Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.’

whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.’

My food,’ said Jesus, ‘is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

He always talk about the one who sent him

He always said who sent me, who sent me?? Is that not clear?

He knew He was the Message and so do true Christians know this. Jesus accepted when people worshiped Him

You keep telling us this, where is the evidence?? How did the true Christians understood this and his disciples didn’t?
And this is Thomas shouting the truth

Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. Acts 2:22

So I am not sure how you Christians understood he was God??

I have addressed your points in first post so please, be honest and address my points supported with verses from the bible not just stating your opinion.

I have saved you the time and started a thread on it already.

It is not just starting a thread, I have added all the relevant verses to support what I am saying, I do not just mealy state my opinion.

Peace to those who follow the guidance, if you read it carefully you will understand it is a prayer for those who follow the guidence, so it could also be me. am I following the guidance or am I just following my own desires? So it is not something derogatory so don't think it is.