Jesus accepted worship as God

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مـواقـع شـقــيـقـة
شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات المرصد الإسلامي لمقاومة التنصير
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع الدعوة الإسلامية
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

يرجى عدم تناول موضوعات سياسية حتى لا تتعرض العضوية للحظر

 

       

         

 

    

 

 

    

 

Jesus accepted worship as God

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  1. #1
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    Default Jesus accepted worship as God





    Christians claim that one of the evidences of the divinity of Christ that some people worshiped him (as stated in the Gospels) .

    First, we have to understand what is meant by the word 'worship'. In the Arabic translation of the bible the word is سجد which is to bow down ?


    What is the original meaning of the word 'worship'. Or سجد ?

    In the original manuscripts the Greek word used for worship is pro·sky·ne'o. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage’. An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man or to God”. The context determines whether pros·ky·ne'o should be rendered "revere" or "worship."

    How many times the word " worship" or سجد appear in the bible where other men than Jesus been "worshiped" ?

    Too many to counts but I will give few examples

    · The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (KJV) Matthew 18:26 in the parable Jesus gave of the slave who was unable to repay a substantial sum of money to his master, that word appear, Was this man committing an idolatrous act? or is he just paying respect to his master?

    · And when Joseph came home, they brought him the present which was in their hand into the house, and bowed themselves to him to the earth. Genesis 43:26 (KJV) again were they worshiping Joseph?

    · And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother Genesis 33:3 (KJV)

    · And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth. Genesis 42:6 kjv

    ·

    Also in Genesis 43:28, Genesis 48:12, Exodus 18:7, 1 Kings 1:23, 1 Kings 2:19, 1 Kings 1:16, and 2 Samuel 24:20 etc

    These are just few from many examples in the bible, where it is clear that the word pro·sky·ne'o, rendered “worship” in some Bible translations, is not reserved exclusively for the type of worship due to God. It can also refer to the respect and honour shown to another person.

    Furthermore, if it can be shown that Jesus explicitly told people to worship God alone then it nullifies any of the above linguistic disagreements:

    -[John 4:21-24] - Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."



    Here Jesus is telling a non-Christian that what she currently worships is a false deity and that in order to be a true worshiper she needs to worship who Jesus worships, God almighty.

    He also tells the Devil (as a response to being invited to worship the Devil):

    -[Luke 3:8] - “And Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’ ”




  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by huria View Post




    Christians claim that one of the evidences of the divinity of Christ that some people worshiped him (as stated in the Gospels) .

    First, we have to understand what is meant by the word 'worship'. In the Arabic translation of the bible the word is سجد which is to bow down ?


    What is the original meaning of the word 'worship'. Or سجد ?

    In the original manuscripts the Greek word used for worship is pro·sky·ne'o. Unger’s Bible Dictionary says that this word literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage’. An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man or to God”. The context determines whether pros·ky·ne'o should be rendered "revere" or "worship."

    How many times the word " worship" or سجد appear in the bible where other men than Jesus been "worshiped" ?

    Too many to counts but I will give few examples

    · The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. (KJV) Matthew 18:26 in the parable Jesus gave of the slave who was unable to repay a substantial sum of money to his master, that word appear, Was this man committing an idolatrous act? or is he just paying respect to his master?

    · And when Joseph came home, they brought him the present which was in their hand into the house, and bowed themselves to him to the earth. Genesis 43:26 (KJV) again were they worshiping Joseph?

    · And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother Genesis 33:3 (KJV)

    · And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth. Genesis 42:6 kjv

    ·

    Also in Genesis 43:28, Genesis 48:12, Exodus 18:7, 1 Kings 1:23, 1 Kings 2:19, 1 Kings 1:16, and 2 Samuel 24:20 etc

    These are just few from many examples in the bible, where it is clear that the word pro·sky·ne'o, rendered “worship” in some Bible translations, is not reserved exclusively for the type of worship due to God. It can also refer to the respect and honour shown to another person.

    Furthermore, if it can be shown that Jesus explicitly told people to worship God alone then it nullifies any of the above linguistic disagreements:

    -[John 4:21-24] - Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."



    Here Jesus is telling a non-Christian that what she currently worships is a false deity and that in order to be a true worshiper she needs to worship who Jesus worships, God almighty.

    He also tells the Devil (as a response to being invited to worship the Devil):

    -[Luke 3:8] - “And Jesus answered him, ‘It is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’ ”



    Notice that Jesus said God is Spirit, but do you believe that? God is Holy. do you believe that? We Christians do believe that God is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus is His word incarnate. We know who Jesus is. Notice that Jesus said salvation is from the Jews, but the Jews rejected their Savior, but as many as receive Jesus to them God gives the power to become the sons of God. Jesus said, "you will die in your sin unless you believe I am He, and no one comes to the father except through Me." I see Jesus has having the monopoly on all that is called God, but you do not believe Jesus is He!

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    Notice that Jesus said God is Spirit, but do you believe that?
    Remember you told me we Muslims cherry pick, who is doing that now? Now you totally ignored everything I have written, and you picked just one thing, the word spirit is there he must be talking about the holy spirit.

    Lets be honest you Christians say that we take things out of context, I am sure some do but the majority pick a verse couldn’t have another meaning, for example “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30 now that is clear, does it matter what was behind it and what after it?

    Can you say I can’t do anything by myself, then in the next verse say but I do?? If the two verse contradicts each other then there is something wrong, and it will not make sense. This is example of how it is not chery picking but rather clear cut evidence.
    So if I see the word spirit, and conclude what it means that is not acceptable.

    Now lets look at the full context of the verse


    19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

    20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

    21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

    22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

    23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


    Do you think the context here talks about the holy spirit or trinity?? when the perfect chance came to Jesus to explain the trinity, and he didn't use it, when he was asked how to attain eternal life, did Jesus explained the trinity to the man? That was perfect opportunity to explain instead what did Jesus say?

    “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew 19:16

    He told him to keep the commandments because he was a messenger came to fulfil the message.

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    but you do not believe Jesus is He

    You mean the Messiah ? as Jesus told her he was in the following verses?

    25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he


    of course we do, we Muslims believe Jesus peace upon him is the Messiah, that will come near the end of times to kill the anti-Christ,.
    Last edited by huria; 15-08-2014 at 08:25 PM.

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    We have Jesus' return to destroy the anti Christ in common, but know and understand when Jesus said only God is good, He wasn't saying He wasn't good. He was speaking rhetorically, and He wanted the young man to understand that by calling Jesus good, he was calling Him God.

    If I were there with what I know now, I would have responded, but Jesus you are good. There is no one like you. You are the son of the living God, and only you show us the father. To see you is to see God the father's spirit. You represent the fullness of God. Jesus save me. Jesus would have responded: "Blessed are you for my father in heaven has revealed that to you." People who could see what I say are truly blessed with eternal life. You don't know you have it, but we true born again Christians know Jesus which is to know life.

    peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    We have Jesus' return to destroy the anti Christ in common, but know and understand when Jesus said only God is good, He wasn't saying He wasn't good. He was speaking rhetorically, and He wanted the young man to understand that by calling Jesus good, he was calling Him God.

    If I were there with what I know now, I would have responded, but Jesus you are good. There is no one like you. You are the son of the living God, and only you show us the father. To see you is to see God the father's spirit. You represent the fullness of God. Jesus save me. Jesus would have responded: "Blessed are you for my father in heaven has revealed that to you." People who could see what I say are truly blessed with eternal life. You don't know you have it, but we true born again Christians know Jesus which is to know life.

    peace

    Again avoiding the question, and talking about something I didn’t even mention!! Where did I say Jesus was not Good?? Here is my reply “

    when the perfect chance came to Jesus to explain the trinity, and he didn't use it, when he was asked how to attain eternal life, did Jesus explained the trinity to the man? That was perfect opportunity to explain instead what did Jesus say?

    “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew 19:16

    He told him to keep the commandments because he was a messenger came to fulfil the message.

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

    So why didn’t Jesus use that opportunity to explain to him, the doctrine of trinity ? because Jesus was not teaching it, he was teaching The LORD our God, the LORD is one.





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    Quote Originally Posted by huria View Post

    Again avoiding the question, and talking about something I didn’t even mention!! Where did I say Jesus was not Good?? Here is my reply “

    when the perfect chance came to Jesus to explain the trinity, and he didn't use it, when he was asked how to attain eternal life, did Jesus explained the trinity to the man? That was perfect opportunity to explain instead what did Jesus say?

    “And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew 19:16

    He told him to keep the commandments because he was a messenger came to fulfil the message.

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

    So why didn’t Jesus use that opportunity to explain to him, the doctrine of trinity ? because Jesus was not teaching it, he was teaching The LORD our God, the LORD is one.




    Stick to one or two questions. You asked who is cherry picking now? These kind of questions to answer prove nothing. Your questions are many and not clear to me. Ask one or two at a time. No one is trying to avoid your questions on purpose. You didn't say Jesus wasn't good; so, does that mean you believe He is good? I assume you posted that verse to prove to me Jesus is not good like most Muslims say the Bible says, but if you believe Jesus is good then you should believe He is God, because only God is good. Jesus didn't teach the trinity doctrine but neither did the apostles of Jesus, and I don't teach the doctrine of the trinity either nor are we commanded to. I just believe God is a trinity past finding out.
    As for your other question: "Can you say I can’t do anything by myself, then in the next verse say but I do?? If the two verse contradicts each other then there is something wrong, and it will not make sense." I really don't understand what your question is or the point you're trying to make. Some times things look like a contradiction but in the right connotation they are both right. For example, some people say hang on and others say let go. That may sound contradicting but in the right connotation it makes sense with no contradictions. Let go of your doubt and fears and hang on to the Lord. We are not taught or told to teach the trinity we just Believe in God's tri unity as we also believe God is one. This bothers Muslims not Christians.

    Peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    Stick to one or two questions.

    Jesus didn't teach the trinity doctrine but neither did the apostles of Jesus, and I don't teach the doctrine of the trinity either nor are we commanded to. I just believe God is a trinity past finding out.

    Peace
    Ok where do you get the concept of trinity if Jesus didn’t teach it , and it is not in the scriptures ?

Jesus accepted worship as God

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Jesus accepted worship as God

Jesus accepted worship as God