Do you feel this is the greatest deception of Satan .. To make people worship a human as God? If so what does Satan gain by this?
Iblees is cursed for eternity . And he did say he will seek to make humans go astray .
38:82 [Iblees] said, "By your might, I will surely mislead them all
And you should ask Burnlight , not me .
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On a point of curiosity .. Did Allah command the angels to ~ Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis.. ~ . Iblis is satan is that so? Do you recognise Adam as the first human father of mankind? Why was Allah commanding angels to prostrate themselves to Adam in worship.?.. When we know all worship is for God alone.
False . The prostrating of teh angels was not a prostration of worship . You have signs of Quran saying worship is only for Allah , and you have others that may seem to some people to defy that . So what do we take ? There's a sign about this subject :
3:7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].
Iblees is cursed for eternity . And he did say he will seek to make humans go astray .
38:82 [Iblees] said, "By your might, I will surely mislead them all
And you should ask Burnlight , not me .
I ask you rather than Burninglight because I know Burninglight will know exactly what Satan's aims are. I'm not so sure you do... If it is purely as you say to mislead and make people go astray. We know why Satan is cursed for eternity.
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False . The prostrating of teh angels was not a prostration of worship . You have signs of Quran saying worship is only for Allah , and you have others that may seem to some people to defy that . So what do we take ? There's a sign about this subject :
3:7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].
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What is the difference? Why did Allah command the angels to prostrate to Adam? How do you know in your heart that it was not in the same spirit as you yourself prostrate to Allah today? Are these signs you speak of the reason why many muslims seek clarification on the Quran from scholars? I mean to make clear to them what maybe was not clear from just reading it for themselves. The more I read of the Quran the more complicated the message appears and I don't have an Islamic scholar to clear things up for me.. So I ask muslims. In your text above what inference am I to take from the words in [ ] am I to take it these words are added for clarification and not part of the original text?
Iblees is cursed for eternity . And he did say he will seek to make humans go astray .
38:82 [Iblees] said, "By your might, I will surely mislead them all
And you should ask Burnlight , not me .
False . The prostrating of teh angels was not a prostration of worship . You have signs of Quran saying worship is only for Allah , and you have others that may seem to some people to defy that . So what do we take ? There's a sign about this subject :
3:7 It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].
Satan's mission is to turn away as many people from believing the death and resurrection of Jesus is true. If he cannot convince people of that, he will try to get them to believe they need to produce good deeds and earn God's favor. When salvation cannot be earned it is God's gift given by meeting God on His terms. trying to earn eternal life will result in being severed from all that is called God our Creator.
As for the prostrating of angels, and since angels are higher than humans, I would like to ask you Muslims how is the prostrating you do five times a day different than the angels prostration before Adam? There is no way you can get non-Muslims to believe that prostration is not a form of worship. Many worship their prophet's. Mormons instance, don't admit it, but they worship their prophet Joseph Smith and put him before God.
We believe Jesus is the last Adam who we prostrate before. It is not man we worship it is the fullest of God in Him; it is the word of God incarnate. Jesus is not just an ordinary son of man He is the son of God; His virgin birth proves this is fact. Satan succeeds when he gets people to not realize this truth, and he get gets victory hurting God by stealing souls away from Him as they go down the pit.
What is the difference? Why did Allah command the angels to prostrate to Adam? How do you know in your heart that it was not in the same spirit as you yourself prostrate to Allah today?
Because it's a given and a simple fact in Islam that worship is only for Allah . Thus , if we see a sign or a narration that seems as if it defies that , we take the clear one . And as the sign said , only the ones whose hearts are astray follow the unspecific .
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Are these signs you speak of the reason why many muslims seek clarification on the Quran from scholars? I mean to make clear to them what maybe was not clear from just reading it for themselves.
Let's be honest , commoners don't know that much . There are basic things in Islam and it is impossible for anyone not to know them . Examples are the five pillars of Islam and six pillars of belief . Beyond that , there can be matters unclear to the commoners and that's where they should ask scholars . It isn't that the message is impossible to understand , but people differ in their abilities . You also ask your popes about what you don't understand , right ?
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In your text above what inference am I to take from the words in [ ] am I to take it these words are added for clarification and not part of the original text?
Indeed . But that's because a sign that is clear when said in Arabic isn't necessarily as clear when translated to another language and that's why they are used to clear things . In the original language , you don't see such brackets . Maybe in some explanations only though .
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Satan's mission is to turn away as many people from believing the death and resurrection of Jesus is true.
Your belief .
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As for the prostrating of angels, and since angels are higher than humans,
!!??
That might be in your religion , but not in ours . Angels were created obident and they never disobey Allah :
66:6 O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.
Humans however have the free will and can recognize the path or rightiousness and falsehood . If a human chooses the right path , he/she is above angels , and if they don't , they are below animals .
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I would like to ask you Muslims how is the prostrating you do five times a day different than the angels prostration before Adam? There is no way you can get non-Muslims to believe that prostration is not a form of worship.
And I suppose that the Koreans , Japanese , and maybe Chinese people who bow to each other out of respect are worshiping each other ?!
Because it's a given and a simple fact in Islam that worship is only for Allah . Thus , if we see a sign or a narration that seems as if it defies that , we take the clear one . And as the sign said , only the ones whose hearts are astray follow the unspecific .
Yes, but it's not Allah asking you to prostrate to Adam.. But Allah commanding the angels to prostrate to Adam. It's a given that all mankind should worship God alone. I'm asking why you thought Allah would ask the angels to prostrate to the first man.. Adam. You make the assumption that the angels were not told to worship Adam on the basis of what the Quran tells you in regards to worshipping Allah.
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Let's be honest , commoners don't know that much . There are basic things in Islam and it is impossible for anyone not to know them . Examples are the five pillars of Islam and six pillars of belief . Beyond that , there can be matters unclear to the commoners and that's where they should ask scholars . It isn't that the message is impossible to understand , but people differ in their abilities . You also ask your popes about what you don't understand , right ?
I see, makes sense.. I guess that's why some interpret it wrongly and we all know where that leads. I never would ask the Pope anything. There's not really that much in the Bible that requires interpretation. When I was young at Bible classes some of the Old Testament seemed not as obvious, but when the context was explained it became easier, much of the Old Testament has a corresponding book in the New Testament. For me, reading the Prophets were the most revealing.. I think they are the cornerstone of the Old Testament... And give a greater understanding to the New Testament. My fave.. Isaiah and Jeremiah.. :)
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Indeed . But that's because a sign that is clear when said in Arabic isn't necessarily as clear when translated to another language and that's why they are used to clear things . In the original language , you don't see such brackets . Maybe in some explanations only though .
Thanks for that explanation.
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Your
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belief .
Yes, it is. It also makes perfect sense if what Jesus said was true.
!!??
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That might be in your religion , but not in ours . Angels were created obident and they never disobey Allah :
66:6 O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.
Humans however have the free will and can recognize the path or rightiousness and falsehood . If a human chooses the right path , he/she is above angels , and if they don't , they are below animals .
How can that be right what you say here! Ilbis or Satan was a created angel who disobeyed God.. The other fallen angels who were coerced into joining him were expelled from heaven/paradise. What is the origin of Ilbis / satan in Islam then? If Ilbis was included in the host of angels Allah commanded to prostrate to Adam then he must have been considered part of the angelic host. The fact he disobeyed God meant he did have the will to disobey as did those angels who sided with him. Have you ever read "Paradise Lost" by Milton? If not do so it is an interesting account of the fall. Mind you it is in prose.. Not everyone's cup of tea. ;) also angels have to be higher than man, they reside with God and assist as messengers etc. They are supernatural beings blessed with greater powers than man.. So how we are above them.? Right path or not. It's not logical. True, we were given free choice because we were created along with angels to the glory of God.. If we did not have choice in this there would be no glory in truth. How are we ever below animals? Does Islam say animals have a soul?
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And I suppose that the Koreans , Japanese , and maybe Chinese people who bow to each other out of respect are worshiping each other ?!
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lol.... :) no that's just silly... You know they are being polite and bowing is born from their tradition as an acceptable way to show their politeness. If I meet the Queen I would bow or curtesy out of respect... I don't worship her... Even though she is considered the head of the church of England!!! Her majesty would be most vexed if we worshipped her. :) :) it's not that hard to tell the difference. God certainly knows who worships Him alone in truth.
Yes, but it's not Allah asking you to prostrate to Adam.. But Allah commanding the angels to prostrate to Adam. It's a given that all mankind should worship God alone. I'm asking why you thought Allah would ask the angels to prostrate to the first man.. Adam. You make the assumption that the angels were not told to worship Adam on the basis of what the Quran tells you in regards to worshipping Allah.
Simply put , they were ordered to do that as a sign of respect to mankind .
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How can that be right what you say here! Ilbis or Satan was a created angel who disobeyed God.. The other fallen angels who were coerced into joining him were expelled from heaven/paradise. What is the origin of Ilbis / satan in Islam then? If Ilbis was included in the host of angels Allah commanded to prostrate to Adam then he must have been considered part of the angelic host. The fact he disobeyed God meant he did have the will to disobey as did those angels who sided with him. Have you ever read "Paradise Lost" by Milton? If not do so it is an interesting account of the fall. Mind you it is in prose.. Not everyone's cup of tea. ;) also angels have to be higher than man, they reside with God and assist as messengers etc. They are supernatural beings blessed with greater powers than man.. So how we are above them.? Right path or not. It's not logical. True, we were given free choice because we were created along with angels to the glory of God.. If we did not have choice in this there would be no glory in truth. How are we ever below animals? Does Islam say animals have a soul?
Seriosuly Pandora , if you just have read this sign , you wouldn't have needed to ask ! :
18:50 And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
And the order given to the angels to prostrate to Adam peace upon him included them and whoever is with them , like when the principle of a school tells the teachers to stand for the arrival of the minister , just becaus he said "teachers" doesn't mean others like the janitor , electrician , or anyone else are not included . So basically , in Islam , there isn't a thing called "fallen angel" . And I did provide you the sign saying angels never disobey Allah .
I do realize angels have supernatural powers to humans , what does that have to do with anything ? If strength or power is what defines who's better than who , a sinner with power is better than a weak worshiper and that's false by default . Again , the point is : Angels were created pure and obident never disobeying Allah in his orders , animals were created with mere instincts , and although they display ethical actions like sacrifise for the children , they are mindless unlike humans , humans however have both mind and instincts/desires , they are tested to fight their desires in the forbidden - not all desires are forbidden or the way thy are achieved - and seek the true path shown to them by the prophets Allah sent , if they succeed , they are at a higher place than angels because angels can't disobey to begin with , and if they fail , they are below animals because they are mindless to begin with .
And yes , animals have souls .
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lol.... :) no that's just silly... You know they are being polite and bowing is born from their tradition as an acceptable way to show their politeness. If I meet the Queen I would bow or curtesy out of respect... I don't worship her... Even though she is considered the head of the church of England!!! Her majesty would be most vexed if we worshipped her. :) :) it's not that hard to tell the difference. God certainly knows who worships Him alone in truth.
And that's the case . It wasn't worship to Adam peace upon him but a sign of respect .
Simply put , they were ordered to do that as a sign of respect to mankind .
I'm sorry... but which ever way you cut it the word used is "prostration"not bow. When you prostrate you do so in worship as do I or anyone else. You do not prostrate to someone as a sign of respect. There is a huge difference.
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Seriosuly Pandora , if you just have read this sign , you wouldn't have needed to ask ! :
18:50 And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
And the order given to the angels to prostrate to Adam peace upon him included them and whoever is with them , like when the principle of a school tells the teachers to stand for the arrival of the minister , just becaus he said "teachers" doesn't mean others like the janitor , electrician , or anyone else are not included . So basically , in Islam , there isn't a thing called "fallen angel" . And I did provide you the sign saying angels never disobey Allah .
ah well... I was forgetting the jinn.. Jinn are never mentioned in the Bible so I don't know what they are meant to be.. We don't have an equivalent being to jinn. Why do you think God neglected to tell his people of these jinn? Especially as they seemingly hold such sway of power for evil, which if satan is of their number must be so. We have a clear and simple message.. God created angels ...satan disobeyed God and so became a fallen angel along with those of the host that followed him. They were expelled from paradise and their mission is to turn people from the path God has chosen for their salvation. Maybe the fallen angels could be considered demons.. Which we know are very real. The fact that Jesus had power over demons and they knew and feared Him is a pointer to His divinity. Could the jinn be considered the same as demons? The jinn sound a convenience to cover for the fact that although The Quran states angels obey Allah in all things there also exists another power to tempt mankind into sin etc so if angels can't disobey then something else has to take their place.. Jinn.
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I do realize angels have supernatural powers to humans , what does that have to do with anything ? If strength or power is what defines who's better than who , a sinner with power is better than a weak worshiper and that's false by default . Again , the point is : Angels were created pure and obident never disobeying Allah in his orders , animals were created with mere instincts , and although they display ethical actions like sacrifise for the children , they are mindless unlike humans , humans however have both mind and instincts/desires , they are tested to fight their desires in the forbidden - not all desires are forbidden or the way thy are achieved - and seek the true path shown to them by the prophets Allah sent , if they succeed , they are at a higher place than angels because angels can't disobey to begin with , and if they fail , they are below animals because they are mindless to begin with .
And yes , animals have souls .
It has nothing to do with strength or power as meaning some kind of superiority when it comes to mankind. Comparing mankind with angels is not appropriate. It's starting to look that we view angels differently also. Maybe that's a topic for another thread. The Bible has a clearly defined role for angels and they are different in rank but if they are part of the heavenly host then they all with single purpose act according to the will of God. I'm not sure how a person who could be considered the lowest of humans through his/her actions be considered lower than an animal. Because God created man higher than the animals, to have dominion over the animals.. So it does not follow that a "mindless" human is somehow an animal or indeed lower than animal. A human is a human regardless of intellect or ability.
There are different schools of thought regarding weather or not animals have souls in the same way we do. If reading the Bible on the subject I would say no, animals do not have souls as mankind does. Although they are blessed with a spirit seeing as they are sentient beings and have a limited intelligence. However, although mankind were at first created vegetarian after the Noahic Covenant (I did a thread on the Covenants should you wish to look it up) God said..
~~"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." ~~(Genesis 9:3)
so would God allow us to kill and eat a being with a soul? If the soul was the same in essence as a human soul. I don't think so, as killing another human is forbidden and considered a sin but God gives His blessing for mankind to kill and eat animals. In the Old Testament God includes what animals are allowed to be offered as a sacrifice for the covering of sin... we do not see the sacrifice of dogs, cats, horses, mules or donkeys in the Bible. We can see that these animals are the ones that enjoy the closest relationship with man.. As in they have been useful in aiding mankind in work situations or companionship as pets. Dogs are mentioned many times in Scripture but cats are not... It could be they were considered the favourite pets in Egypt and were associated with pagan religion.
However, if an animal has a spirit of sorts.. And I think it must do.. Then that does not mean that animals wouldn't exist in paradise for lack of a soul. As all things are possible with God if an animal means much to a human.. Like a beloved pet or something ... who knows they could be reunited at some level after death.
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And that's the case . It wasn't worship to Adam peace upon him but a sign of respect .
Allah knows best .
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Well, I've read what you've said here, but I'm not sure I can agree over the word "prostrate" being used to describe simply a sign of respect. I can agree with your final words.. And indeed God does know best.
Isn't this true that is in Islam it is not only love for your prophet as a condition of faith, but also obedience to all he says, because to obey your prophet is to obey Allah? Moreover, you must believe he is the best of creatures; the best of people or humans. Howis this not a worship of man?
I say Christians have the perfect form of monotheism, because unlike Muslims, we only show that kind of respect, love and obedience to God alone and not to a slave messenger or angel or any creature. Behold the Lord our God is one and we worship Him as one God with no partners; we don't have to say a Christian shahada; we don't have to mention any messengers with the one and only God like in the second part of the shahada. We will not commit that sin or shirk as you would call it. Islam doesn't have anything to offer Christianity; in fact, it appears to have imperfectly borrow from Christianity such truths as monotheism, heaven and hell, the virgin birth of Jesus and many other concepts that were written in the Bible first. I don't have a problem with what it borrowed, but I do with how it twists it and adds information. The only attempt at Biblical corruption I see toward the Scripture that came before is what Islam is trying to say about the torah and gospel. I am just calling a spade a spade! How can you see it differently?
Because it's a given and a simple fact in Islam that worship is only for Allah . Thus , if we see a sign or a narration that seems as if it defies that , we take the clear one . And as the sign said , only the ones whose hearts are astray follow the unspecific .]
With all due respect, what you say and what I observe do not appear to line up.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Let's be honest , commoners don't know that much . There are basic things in Islam and it is impossible for anyone not to know them . Examples are the five pillars of Islam and six pillars of belief . Beyond that , there can be matters unclear to the commoners and that's where they should ask scholars . It isn't that the message is impossible to understand , but people differ in their abilities . You also ask your popes about what you don't understand , right ?]
Impossible? Not for the spiritual man. He judges all things, yet he is not judged of any man. True Biblical Christians do not ask the pope for their spiritual direction. We don't depend on man at all. If anything we test the pope, priests and pastors to see if what they share lines up with Scripture. We test the spirit of what we hear from our leaders. Besides, the pope is Catholic. I feel true Catholicism more lines up with Islam than it does with true Biblical Christianity.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
Your belief .]
Yes, it is belief based on Scripture and God's word.
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
[
That might be in your religion , but not in ours . Angels were created obident and they never disobey Allah :
66:6 O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.
Humans however have the free will and can recognize the path or rightiousness and falsehood . If a human chooses the right path , he/she is above angels , and if they don't , they are below animals .]
Humans cannot tell truth from error when they are caught in the bowels of deep religious deception. Humans can act like animals, but they are never below them. Angels are created with free will just as we are, and they are greater in position, function and office for now, but the redeemed of God will judge angels. Angels don't have to struggle to be obedient to God, because they are in their glorified state, we aren't; therefore, we do, because we inherited a tendency to sin from our father Adam. We can have victory over sin through the last Adam only (Jesus)
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
And I suppose that the Koreans , Japanese , and maybe Chinese people who bow to each other out of respect are worshiping each other ?!
LOL, nice try, but there is a big difference between bowing out of custom and prostration before an entity! I really appears you are just making excuses to justify discrepancies.
I'm sorry... but which ever way you cut it the word used is "prostration"not bow. When you prostrate you do so in worship as do I or anyone else. You do not prostrate to someone as a sign of respect. There is a huge difference.
On what basis exactly are you so sure about your definition ? Here's a link :
islamqa.info/en/8492
And I quote :
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Praise be to Allaah.
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Prostrating is of two kinds:
It may an act of veneration and drawing closer to the one to whom one prostrates. This kind of prostration is worship, and should only be done for Allaah, according to the laws of the Prophets.
The second type is a kind of greeting and honouring a person. This is the kind of prostration which Allaah commanded the angels to do in the case of Adam, so they prostrated to him as an act of honouring him. It was an act of worship towards Allaah on their part, because they were obeying His command to prostrate to Adam.
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Why do you think God neglected to tell his people of these jinn?
According to your Bible or other religions ? Don't forget that we don't believe they are the original messages revealed by Allah . I thought we went over this a month ago .
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Especially as they seemingly hold such sway of power for evil,
Incorrect . Jins are like humans in that they have a free will . And there's a Surah named after them :
14 And among us are Muslims [in submission to Allah ], and among us are the unjust. And whoever has become Muslim - those have sought out the right course. 15 But as for the unjust, they will be, for Hell, firewood.'
And the disbelievers of Jins are called devils . Keep in mind that even among humans there are devils and that's because this is a name given to evil doers . Still , generally , when we say "THE devil" it is Iblees .
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The jinn sound a convenience to cover for the fact that although The Quran states angels obey Allah in all things there also exists another power to tempt mankind into sin etc so if angels can't disobey then something else has to take their place.. Jinn.
DON'T , get into baseless hypothesis . And if I remember correctly , I did inform you that the devils are not "THE" cause of sinning . People themselves differ . There are those who obey and those who disobey .
76:3 Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful.
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It's starting to look that we view angels differently also. Maybe that's a topic for another thread.
Exactly .
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I'm not sure how a person who could be considered the lowest of humans through his/her actions be considered lower than an animal.
Again , animals act on instincts and have no minds . A person who has one and YET chooses falsehood is worse . That's why Quran says :
7:179 And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.
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So it does not follow that a "mindless" human is somehow an animal or indeed lower than animal. A human is a human regardless of intellect or ability.
The insane and mentally ill are a different case . That's why an insane person isn't blamed to not accept Islam and is judged on the final day .
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There are different schools of thought regarding weather or not animals have souls in the same way we do. If reading the Bible on the subject I would say no, animals do not have souls as mankind does. Although they are blessed with a spirit seeing as they are sentient beings and have a limited intelligence.
They don't have a soul , but they have a spirit ?!
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so would God allow us to kill and eat a being with a soul?
And the problem is ? There are two reasons to kill an animal : either to benefit from it , or to fend harm . Slaughtering an animal to eat it is included in the first one . And even so , Islam sets strict rules to slaughter an animal in teh most merciful way . One can't sharpen the knife in front of it , slaughter it in front of another , and the one doing it must be "professional" to do it in one swift hit .
And no offense but , what does all of that you tell about your doctrine have to do with the current subject ? Egypt , cats , vegetarians ?
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Isn't this true that is in Islam it is not only love for your prophet as a condition of faith, but also obedience to all he says, because to obey your prophet is to obey Allah?
Indeed , because nothing he orders in religion is from his own , but rather from the almighty himself . You're trying to force the idea that he makes thing up and that's false by default .
53:1 By the star when it descends, 2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, 3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. 4 It is not but a revelation revealed,
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Moreover, you must believe he is the best of creatures; the best of people or humans. Howis this not a worship of man?
Spare us the emotional talk . It's ironic how you've been the one asking away and making claims about Islam and still , you seem to be the most insecure . I told you that the first pillar of Islam includes believing Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and a messenger of Allah . He doesn't claim divine abilities to himself and no real Muslim would .
And what angers you so much if Allah say he is the best of creatures ? Does it irritate you so much ? Apparently , it does , and so you slander that it is worship of man . And on the same step , I can say the same about worshiping a human . Of course you claim he was half human half God , still , why would I worship someone imperfect who has human needs and weaknesses and dies ? We deny any negative charecteristics allegated to Allah , it doesn't seem so with you .
So read about prophet Muhammad peace upon him to learn why he's the best of creatures instead of just hating him for your ignorance .
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Behold the Lord our God is one and we worship Him as one God with no partners
Since when is 1+1+1 equal to 1 ? And if the holy ghost is Jibreel , how come you have the nerve say you don't worship angels with a straight face ?
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we don't have to say a Christian shahada; we don't have to mention any messengers with the one and only God like in the second part of the shahada. We will not commit that sin or shirk as you would call it.
Bring me one , I say ONE sign or narration claims divine attributes to the prophet peace upon him or anyone else other than the almighty . For the gazillion time , Muhammad peace upon him is a servant and messenger of Allah , of you want to stick to your delusions that this is idolatry , stick to them while being silent .
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Islam doesn't have anything to offer Christianity; in fact, it appears to have imperfectly borrow from Christianity such truths as monotheism, heaven and hell, the virgin birth of Jesus and many other concepts that were written in the Bible first.
Back to the stinking habit of red herring I see . Fine , two can play this game . Ever heard of Krishna ? He's an exact copy of what you claim Christ is . Born of a virgin , walked on water , is the son of God , and surprise surprise , along with almost 15 other individuals , was crucified to atone for the sin of mankind . According to your flawed logic , since Christianity came after all of those , it's false by default .
Islam states that Christ was a prophet of Allah sent with a message to his people . Those people altered the message and corrupted it when they were entrusted with them . That's why there are truths in the current Bible unaltered , yet . So instead of the meaningless accusations of "Muhammad - peace upon him - took what's in the books of Jews , Christians , Hindus , Buddhists , and many other" , argue which religion is true . It's really ridiculous when I hear that slander as if he had a magical library in his 5X4 meters house that no human ever noticed .
Note : I'm not sure about the size of the house , just said it to mean it's small .
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With all due respect, what you say and what I observe do not appear to line up.
With all due disrespect to your method of arguing , what you think doesn't matter .
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Impossible? Not for the spiritual man. He judges all things, yet he is not judged of any man. True Biblical Christians do not ask the pope for their spiritual direction. We don't depend on man at all. If anything we test the pope, priests and pastors to see if what they share lines up with Scripture. We test the spirit of what we hear from our leaders. Besides, the pope is Catholic. I feel true Catholicism more lines up with Islam than it does with true Biblical Christianity.
You seriously need therapy . You're literally ill . You CAN'T stop spamming your slanders in every single post you make . That's a disease , and you need treatment .
Still , I'll remember to show you this quote of yours the next time you make the slander of "Muslims differ among themselves , so Islam is wrong" . And believe me , you will make it .
Back to track , if you read what I wrote properly - you didn't - you'd notice that I said it is NOT impossible . Visit a doctor for your eyes too .
As for your farce in the undelined , you have until one of us dies to bring one evidence from Islam that a religious man can judge from outside Quran or Sunnah . Each and every single individual can say right or wrong things about religion except the prophet himself . That's why we return to the message itself .
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Humans cannot tell truth from error when they are caught in the bowels of deep religious deception.
A pitiful excuse . I can say you're in deep deception by default and thus you're wrong . End of the story . We have minds to tell the difference between truth and falsehood . And when someone refuses truth , it is either they are ignorant of what it really is , or are following their desires . So bring forth your proof if your are truthful .
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Humans can act like animals, but they are never below them.
Disbelievers are in hellfire on the judgement day and animals return to sand , of course that's below animals .
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Angels are created with free will just as we are,
YOUR beleif .
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LOL, nice try, but there is a big difference between bowing out of custom and prostration before an entity! I really appears you are just making excuses to justify discrepancies.
Go to the top of this reply and ponder how wrong you are .
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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