Response on doctrine of the Trinity:

[Burninglight]

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Hi Burninglight, i'm sorry, but i did not understand what you mean.

What I am trying to say is Jn 5:7 is old news and we know it was added to the original manuscripts by an over zealous scribe, but we wouldn't have known it if we had an Uthman like Islam had who burned all the original copies of the Quran and recompiled it after Islam's messenger's death.
Uthman use the help of text from Hafsah's copy, and after her death, her copy was destroyed. Why? So, no Muslim can now proof perfect preservation of the Quran, but the Christians didn't destroy the copies we had from the beginning, and we can compare and contrast when people put the Bible to print for correctness which is something Muslims cannot do. You only have the non prophet Uthman's recompilation of the Quran in you possession who acted as Allah's editor, IMO. I hope I have made myself clear now.

Pandora has explained to you correctly as well.

Islam is a religion were man is trying to reach God, but Christianity is about God reaching for man.

Why would your god leave you in spiritual uncertainty about your eternal destiny? No Muslim can answer this unfairness of Allah. Why would God leave Muslims in the dark about their hereafter when it is for all eternity. We know our eternal destiny God has made it clear.

Peace

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

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What I am trying to say is Jn 5:7 is old news and we know it was added to the original manuscripts by an over zealous scribe, but we wouldn't have known it if we had an Uthman like Islam had who burned all the original copies of the Quran and recompiled it after Islam's messenger's death.
Uthman use the help of text from Hafsah's copy, and after her death, her copy was destroyed. Why? So, no Muslim can now proof perfect preservation of the Quran, but the Christians didn't destroy the copies we had from the beginning, and we can compare and contrast when people put the Bible to print for correctness which is something Muslims cannot do. You only have the non prophet Uthman's recompilation of the Quran in you possession who acted as Allah's editor, IMO. I hope I have made myself clear now.

Pandora has explained to you correctly as well.

Islam is a religion were man is trying to reach God, but Christianity is about God reaching for man.

Why would your god leave you in spiritual uncertainty about your eternal destiny? No Muslim can answer this unfairness of Allah. Why would God leave Muslims in the dark about their hereafter when it is for all eternity. We know our eternal destiny God has made it clear.

Peace

Burning Light: If you don't know anything about ISLAMIC History, so don't say anything for defiance about your religion, Usman bin Affan was burn the false copies of Quran, not true copies, Companions saved the true copy, but one of they, was copy the Quran lot of false copies, then Usman bin Affan check about those, then he was find an error in those copies, then he was gone to burn those, then he was copy the true copy of Quran lot of copies, so Quran now is really true, if you read Quran, you will make sure about Quran.
But the bible now is "really distorted", if you was read it carefully, you will make sure it was distorted!
If you want to guides from me, tell me and i'll say to you.

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Pandora: Can you understand my words before write response about it?Your response haven't link by my words absolutely! or my english language is bad because i'm arabian.

[pandora]

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Pandora: Can you understand my words before write response about it?Your response haven't link by my words absolutely! or my english language is bad because i'm arabian.

I confess I found your post difficult to read and as a consequence may have misunderstood the meaning of your post. I'm sure your English language is better than my Arabic.

peace to you

[pandora]

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Use it words in Advice, and invite to me.

are you wishing for Christians to prove to you the trinity? There are many threads on here that deal with this topic already.. I am not sure it is possible to explain this doctrine to muslims because they are handicapped by their very narrow understanding of God. IMHO I do not see Islam shows the nature of God in any meaningful way we can understand... And as love does not figure very highly as one of the attributes of Allah then this also puts you at a disadvantage. As I said before it comes down to love.. Which Christians see as the main force of God, because through love everything is made. That's why the trinity doctrine makes sense to Christians but not to muslims who see Allah as a unitary being. A unitary being cannot know or demonstrate love.

If there is a particular aspect you feel has not been addressed before then I will attempt to make it clearer for you. The trinity doctrine is not biblical, neither is it a lie... And simply because you do not understand the concept does not make it a lie. You raised many points in your original post, maybe you could choose one to start with that causes you the most problem and I shall attempt to explain it for you. Personally.. I don't see the trinity is any kind of issue to get tied up in knots about. It's basically a doctrine men have arrived at after centuries of scriptural studies in order to explain the nature of God, the better for mans understanding. We can never know all there is to God, for God is a mystery and mankind has not been granted the ability to fully understand His nature. We can only hope to understand what God has chosen to reveal to us through His Word.. That is Jesus.. And His Prophets.

Peace to you.

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Pandora: Are you thought you proved to me the triad is true thing? your words weren't proved to me that! i was read your response carefully then i wasn't find anything convincing!But you was proved to me that triad is false, and your words about Allah are contrary to fact about him!

[pandora]

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Pandora: Are you thought you proved to me the triad is true thing? your words weren't proved to me that! i was read your response carefully then i wasn't find anything convincing!But you was proved to me that triad is false, and your words about Allah are contrary to fact about him!

I was not attempting to prove anything to you about the trinity. I asked if there was a particular area of this doctrine you were concerned with out of the many points you raised in your first post. I would try and explain it for you. Really you don't need to concern yourself with the trinity at all. As I said it is not Biblical.

I have not proved anything to you in regards to the trinity because I have not discussed it with you. I do not need to convince you of anything. I can only explain things from my perspective to allow you to understand why the doctrine of the trinity makes sense when it comes to the understanding in ..small way.. The nature of God. Based on what God has revealed of Himself to us in the Bible.

if you cannot see the same force of love in Allah as in YHWH... then you are not worshipping the same God as the Jews and the Christians worship.. YHWH .. The God of Abraham and all the prophets. I guess it's easier for Christians to accept such as we have no problem believing that with God nothing is impossible. God exists outside our sphere of human understanding but the Bible gives an understanding how God seeks us, loves us and cares for us.. And through the greatest act of agape love has shown us through His Word Jesus a way to be small part of His glory for eternity.

If you feel you have that in Islam then that's fine and good... And I really don't know why you wish to have the trinity explained to you.

Peace to you.

[Burninglight]

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Pandora: Are you thought you proved to me the triad is true thing? your words weren't proved to me that! i was read your response carefully then i wasn't find anything convincing!But you was proved to me that triad is false, and your words about Allah are contrary to fact about him!

Your comment shows that the only reason you are against the tri unity of God is because Islam speaks against a misconception it has of the trinity. As much as we cannot explain God's nature or tri unity to you or anyone is as much as you cannot explain why you don't accept the concept. You are rejecting the concept based solely on your god and prophet's misconception of the trinity. IOW, it doesn't matter how good of an explanation you receive as long as you are looking through the lens of Islam you will not see.

Grace and Truth

[مصطفى الحداد (محارب النصارى)]

Ok Burninglight and Pandra: If you don't know: you should use ("EVIDENCE") to confirm an thing, if you don't use any evidence on the trinity, Pandora was say anything to escape this subject, and Burninglight was say bad words on my prophet (peace be apoun him) without reason.
Pandora: Say anything, but i will not read.
Burninglight: because what you was say bad words on prophet muhammed? are you thought you will shush me by bad words? you was confirmed the christian religion is religion of urge and inconsistent with morales, if any muslim was say bad word on anything in christian religion, he will say why he did that, but the christians heat Islamic religion too muchand they hadn't "أخلاق".

[pandora]

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Ok Burninglight and Pandra: If you don't know: you should use ("EVIDENCE") to confirm an thing, if you don't use any evidence on the trinity, Pandora was say anything to escape this subject, and Burninglight was say bad words on my prophet (peace be apoun him) without reason.
Pandora: Say anything, but i will not read.
Burninglight: because what you was say bad words on prophet muhammed? are you thought you will shush me by bad words? you was confirmed the christian religion is religion of urge and inconsistent with morales, if any muslim was say bad word on anything in christian religion, he will say why he did that, but the christians heat Islamic religion too muchand they hadn't "أخلاق".

What do you mean by evidence? Do you want me to post a number of Bible verses in support of the Trinity? To what purpose..? If I asked you to give me evidence that God was a unitary being as the Quran implies by the concept of tawheed how would you offer me evidence of that fact? Would you quote verses from the Quran in support of this doctrine? Don't you see that in itself is not "evidence" of an independent nature. I was seeking to explain to you in fairly simple terms how Christians view the trinity and why it makes more sense than God being a unitary being. It has nothing to do with the ONENESS of God.. God is and always has been ONE. That ONENESS has not been affected by the concept of trinity.. I cannot explain your misconceptions you hold about the trinity and no matter how much I say or what evidence I bring from the Bible that the trinity is nothing like the Quran claims it to be will not help you. These misconceptions are your own.

But I guess you've not read this anyway as you have already decided that I have nothing to say of any value.. Maybe you are a misogynist at heart I do not know your reasons. No matter. I wish you well and will pray for God to guide you to His light and truth.

Peace.