What a lucky man I am! How blessed to be speaking these words to you in a boat on the Nile! Look at that background behind me. We’re in Egypt, Cairo, on the Nile! We’re going to answer a question. The question a Christian asked Muslims: “We know our God, who is yours?” Now I want to say to you very clearly from the beginning, that sort of question “We know our God, who is yours?” there is a temptation that the answer could be confrontational. It’s an “Us and them”, an “Us and You”, we know our God, how do you know your God? It’s as if someone is asking for an argument. Well I’m not going to argue with anyone. I’m not going to argue with you at all. What I’m going to do is I’m going to say what Muslims believe, and I intend no offense at all, I’m not debating, I’m not arguing, I’m simply stating the case before you, because Muslims believe something totally different to what Christians believe. We have a different idea of God. But we need to say first of all, we need to say a word about what Christians believe about their God. If you’re Christian, I respect what you believe and I’m not rubbishing your belief at all. Watch brother Idris Tawfiq’s answer in an 8 minutes video:
In fact, in Islam, we have a saying: {To you your religion, and to me mine}. The Quran tells us let there be no compulsion in religion, there is complete freedom of belief. If you’re Christian, you believe that Jesus died on the cross, you believe that he’s the son of God who died for the salvation of mankind and who rose again on the third day. That is your belief. As a Muslim, the Quran tells me that Jesus did not die on the cross. The Quran tells me that he is not the son of God who died to save mankind from their sins. So our beliefs are different. And I want to say something about what you believe as Christians intending no offense, I respect what you believe. But you see as Muslims, we say all that we know about Jesus (peace be upon him), we find in the Quran. So in the Old Testament and the New, in the Bible, people say: Oh, it says this about God, it says this about Jesus…
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Well, as Muslims we say if the Bible agrees with the Quran, as Muslims we accept that those verses are true. If the Bible disagrees with the Quran, as Muslims we say those verses are false. And if there are verses in the Bible that are not mentioned in the Quran, we say well we don’t know anything about that, we don’t know who said it, or who it’s about. So if we’re working from the premise, as Christians, we know our God, who is yours. As Muslims, we would ask you: how really do you know your God? Where do you get your information from? If it’s from the Bible, you know as Muslims we believe that Allah Almighty sent messengers throughout history from the beginning of time with different prophets to different people, but each of these messengers, for example the message given to Prophet Moses or to Jesus (peace be upon them both), those messages were intended for a particular people at a particular time in history. So the revelation given to Moses was intended for the people of Moses day. The revelation given to Jesus (peace be upon him) was given to the people in Jesus day. And because it wasn’t intended for our own day, those verses over time and through translation and through being lost and all sorts of different things, we use the word, they’ve become “corrupted.” If you don’t like the word corrupted we’ll just use the word they become “changed” over time. So after so many thousands of years, we don’t really know who revealed that verse, who said it, who wrote it… and also more importantly, we don’t really have the original verse to say: “Well, that’s what was originally said and that one wasn’t” because the Quran tells us that the Torah and Injeel (The Old Testament and the New) changed over time. So what I’m saying to you, if you claim you knowledge about God from the Bible, I would say to you very simply Muslims say “No, you don’t” because the information you have about this God is not perfectly correct. On the other hand, as Muslims we say “We know our God, what about yours?” “How do you know yours?” God is One As Muslims, we believe something very important. We believe that God is remote, He transcends His creation, He’s far away. There is a verse in the Quran that tells us: {He created heavens and the earth and everything in between}. He’s great, Powerful and also very remote; but we also believe that He’s closer to us that our very own jugular vein. You know, He knows every leaf that falls from every tree. As Muslims, we say that God, first of all is quite unknowable; He’s completely separate from His creation; He’s not a man; He’s not like a man; He’s God; He’s Allah.Say Allah is One. And in one sense, we can know nothing about Him. And we say as Muslims that if we come up with a definition of what God is like; all we know for sure is that He’s not like that. So God is very remote. But also as Muslims, and sometimes people who aren’t Muslims think that’s the whole picture; it’s not. We also believe that this God who we call Merciful and Compassionate is closer to us than the vein in your neck, imagine! He knows more about us than we could possibly know.So How Do We Know About Our God? We know about our God from the Quran. I told you that Allah Almighty revealed Himself to the nations, to all people, throughout the course of history through different Prophets. And over history, the different relations were intended for particular people in a particular time, and because of that, the originals got lost or were corrupted or whatever. The Holy Quran, as Muslims we believe that it is the final revelation to mankind and it’s intended for all people and for all time. So the Quran that we read, unlike any Bible or New Testament that you read, the Quran that we read is the exact revelation that was given 14 hundred years ago. You can look at any Quran, in any country, from any time in those 14 hundred years and you will find exactly the same text, no change at all. There is no translating it into French, to German, or to Hebrew, or to any other language or to Latin and then into English to Latin, we have exactly the same words. You asked us: “How do you know about God?” we know because He tells us about Himself in the Quran. I invite you, take a look at the Quran, learn what Allah tells us about Himself. And the very first thing He tells us about Him is that He is Merciful and Compassionate. Watch the
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تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين
تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين
We are the same way as you regarding the Quran. What agrees with the Bible we accept as truth and what doesn't we consider false, and what is told about Jesus that isn't written in the Bible, we say, "I don't know about that." Jesus said, "I am the way, truth and life," so Muslims say "Yes, all prophets were the truth the life and the way for their time." But I say, no other prophet could make the claim I am. For instance, Jesus said, "I am the way, truth and the life;" he didn't say "I show the way & truth." There is that very important difference between being and showing you're not seeing. Jesus is the word "Be" from Allah in Islam, and He is the Word "I am" in the Bible. The Quran and Bible agree, but we see the Word as eternal and uncreated. You see Jesus as a messenger only, but we see Him as the Message. This is the difference between Christianity and Islam that makes the difference between paradise and hell.
Comparison between Christianity and Islam demonstrate progress in terms of themessage of Islam moral, social and ideological
تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين
Comparison between Christianity and Islam demonstrate progress in terms of themessage of Islam moral, social and ideological
Sorry, but this is not saying much nor is it clear. IOW, I don't see how it is adding to the dialogue of this thread. How does the Quran tell you the torah change over thousands of years? Didn't Allah say to his messenger I have sent down the torah and the gospel? He didn't tell Islam's messenger it was corrupted or changed; so, if Muslims today say it is corrupted or changed, the burden of proof is on the Muslim to say, when, where, how, who and for what purpose and who benefited from doing such a thing.
I, therefore, challenge Muslims to show me where it says in the Quran the torah and gospel had been changed. Please don't share "they write with their own hands saying it is from Allah..." Only Abrab Christians refer to God as Allah, and they didn't change anything. Finally, the Jews and the other Christians never used the term Allah to refer to there God; so, who wrote with their own hands saying this is from Allah. Could it be Muslims changing Quranic verses and that is why Uthman burned the corrupted originals to recompile them as he saw fit? It is easier for me to believe that Allah was referring to the Arabs changing the Quran and not the torah or gospel. Islam's prophet lived by the torah. Read on how he use it to judge the woman caught in adultery.
You seem to read about Islam, from Christian sources
You said that some monks distorted the Bible, and that the originals are missing
So you prove that the Koran is true accuse Jews and Christians distortive
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين
You seem to read about Islam, from Christian sources
You said that some monks distorted the Bible, and that the originals are missing
So you prove that the Koran is true accuse Jews and Christians distortive
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, ** among the Jews.. Implying that only some but not all Jews were guilty of distorting words from there proper usage** "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. ** they listen to the words.. So the true account is still available.. But they twist the words to their own agenda .. With their TONGUES.. Which is important I think because it would appear then that they change the words by speech as opposed to what is written and by doing so defame their religion..** And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand],". ** we hear and obey... They KNOW the written word and the believe it.. But they wish to understand it and interpret it in their own way..** it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. ** it would have been better for them to be true to the written word.. And God knows their deed and is angry about it.. But not angry with ALL.. Angry with those who spoke the words differently to how it was written. **
As I read these words literally I see a different meaning than you seem to. You see to take these words as a proof that the whole of the Torah was corrupted on the basis of this. Or at least wide scale corruption enough to invalidate it as a means for interpreting Gods message.. Thus giving the need for the Quran. To clarify things. Although I'm not sure what in fact the Quran clarifies from the Torah. Maybe you could point them out. Allow me please to insert what I see in these words above.. Between the lines as it were. I have marked my words between ** ** I would have liked to change font colour but that is not so easy on the device I use. I hope you can make sense of where I have inserted my comments and understand why I do not arrive at the same meaning you do on this verse.
You seem to read about Islam, from Christian sources
You said that some monks distorted the Bible, and that the originals are missing
So you prove that the Koran is true accuse Jews and Christians distortive
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
Yes, from Christians sources that were once Muslims and also get information from Muslims, the Quran and the hadiths!
Christians Ask, We Know Our God, Who Is Yours
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Originally Posted by شمائل
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