مشرف الأقسام غير العربية
تفضل يا استاذ المحترم عثمانQuoteاشكرك أخي الكريم علي تعاونك ومساعدتك لي ولكني الحقيقة لا أري ايقونة الاقتباس التي أشرت اليها . فهي غير موجودة ضمن الايقونات . لك شكري وتقديري . أخوك عثمان
مكان يايكونة الاقتباس في منتديات ابن مريم الاسلامية ...
لك كل احترامي و تقديري و بارك الله فيك
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
قل هو الله احد * الله الصمد * لم يلد و لم يولد * و لم يكن له كفوا احد
Dis : " Lui, Dieu, est Un ! * Dieu est le Soutien universel ! * Il n'engendre pas et Il n'est pas engendré, * et Il n'a pas d'égal. "
عضو مميز
أشكرك أخي الفاضل الكريم وأسأل الله أن يعينك علي مهمتك .وأن يجعلها في ميزان حسناتك في يوم لاينفع فيه مال ولابنين .إلا من أتي الله بقلب سليم .وتقبل تحياتي واحترامي.
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
member
[QUOTE=عثمان أحمد الشيخ;590189]Dear Pandora,
Thank you for your message . I will start where you have ended. You said:" I apologise if my words seem harsh and I really do not wish to cause offence but I am trying to answer your questions whilst also trying to let you see my doubts about Islam." .Please, No apology. We have agreed to speak frankly and clearly and without any sensitivity or any critical
1- You said : " My main issue with the Quran is to some extent it's misrepresentation of the beliefs of both Christians and to similar extent the Jews. These beliefs were then as they are now and long set in canons hundreds of years before the Quran was revealed" and you think that "If the Quran was meant to be a final "instalment" or an "update" of what went before then I would expect it to have a more definitive idea of what it is replacing."
This thing you say is very difficult to accept. Muslims always make this same claim about the Bible message being lost or changed, yet can offer no conclusive proof of this, as to why 1- Jews and Christians would wish to change what they revered as the word of their Holy God. Especially as dire punishment awaits any who dare to change Gods message. There are many warnings of such. Would they be crazy for doing such a thing???Quote--- The matter is not as you think. Allah (pbth) desended The Torah and The Bible to guide people to the true faith and worship the only true God who created me and you all that world . But the followers of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon both of them) did not keep these revelations well . As a result there is no original revelation of these Holy Books now and some humans (excuse me ) messed with these books, they added to and deleted from them according to their fancy ( there is an evidence from the Quran ).So The Almighty Allah descended the Holy Quran and pledged to save it till the day of resurrection.Allah said in the Quran :- " We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and we will Assuredly guard it (from corruption).(15/9). So there is only one book all over the world. Muslims all over the world are uttering the Quran as it was descended on the messenger of Allah. The Holy Quran came down to correct the errors that have occurred due to human deeds.
Revelation 22:18-19 says, "For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
2 - who made these changes? And why were these changes made? And when exactly were these changes made? And what verses in the Bible were changed?
3- Mohammed told Jews and Christians to judge by their scriptures, that was the Torah and the Gospel... If God told Mohammed to tell the Jews and Christians to judge thus.. Why would God be content for Jews and Christians to refer to their scriptures if God knew they were corrupted to the extent of sending a new and completely different revelation? There are other points on this theme that do not make sense to me but I will leave it there.
Here you misunderstand. When Exodus states God "rested" it does not mean God had exhausted His energy, that is a ridiculous notion. The day of rest, as the verse states refers to the Sabbath. No work was done on the sabbath that day was for God alone. God was setting a precedent for mankind that we toil for six days but the seventh we rest and keep holy. How you ascribe something as an insult to God something that God Himself ordained for us I don't understand. Surely muslims keep their sabbath day Holy? You say the Quran claims ....We created the heavens and the earth and all between them In six days, ... What pray does the Quran say God did on the seventh day? If it were not the Muslim sabbath. I do not see any difference between the two verses in regards to ascribing dignity and sanctity and greatness to God, only in your misunderstanding of Exodus, I feel most objections in regards to the Bible stems from misunderstanding..Quote---- For an example only to what I wrote :
** In the Old Testament Exo 20/11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it". This is the wrong image of Allah the creator of that universe.Allah says : "There is nothing whatever like unto him, and He is the one that hears and sees (All things)".(42/11) and there is a verse like that completely in the Bible. Allah never feel tired that He (pbth) take a rest . That is an insult to The Almighty Allah .So Allah said in the Holy Quran :- "38. We created the heavens and the earth and all between them In six days, nor did any sense of weariness touch us.(50/38) .I ask you which of the two verses befitting the dignity and the sanctity and greatness of the Almighty God ?
No, the image of the prophets is accurate and true. There is nothing shameful in an accurate portrayal of a man if it shows his strengths and weaknesses. For that's what they were, the prophets.... Men and women, human, and as such prone to the normal human weaknesses that it is our human condition to be. All were sinners and in need of God, Jesus was the only sinless being to walk the earth. Prophets were not chosen by God because they were special it was through being chosen that made them special. The Bible shows that if even prophets of God do sin and need Gods redemption then how much more do we need God. We learn important lessons that we all for short of Gods magnificent glory and we are all in need of His gracious mercy and forgiveness... Even prophets.. Even Mohammed had occasion to appeal to God for forgiveness. I feel by portraying the biblical prophets that the Quran recognises as perfect examples of humanity does them a great disservice, because if they were human men and women then it is impossible for them to be pure, they can strive to be both obedient and righteous but knowing they may fail and so are reliant on God as we all are is a greater lesson for us all to learn.QuoteAlso the image of most prophets is very bad .Does Allah chose fornicator prophets in order to call people to virtue .The image of David (peace be upon him) in the Torah is a shameful image but in the Quran David is a pure ,rightouse and obedient prophet.All prophets and messengers of Allah are the stars of that universe.They are models for us to be followed (peace be upon them all )
If this was the only instance where the concept of the trinity was to be found in the Bible then you may have some kind of point. It isn't here are a few...Quote** In the Bible John 1(5/7-8) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
-- Priests used to use these verses to prove "trinity". Now the phrase " three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:' was deleted from all translated versions all over the world and it is found only in all Arabic versions and in King James version. Peace and blessing to you and to all our brothers and sisters all over that vast world and may Allah (God) guide us all to the right way.Ameen,Ameen.
To be continued
John 17:20-23 ESV
“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
John 15:26 ESV
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
Luke 1:35 ESV
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
John 14:16-17 ESV
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
John 1:1-51 ESV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 10:30-36 ESV
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Matthew 28:19 ESV
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Peace
member
Its not about deletion it's about interpretation. The Spirit and the water and the blood refers to the concept of the trinity. At least this is from my understanding. I am not a theologian so my view is from a lay person. I expect you will find my answer on this unsatisfactory but I'm afraid it is all I have as far as my knowledge goes.QuoteOriginally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ
I see what you mean, and of course anyone can make this claim... Like they also say "the devil made me do it" well, of course it is easy to "blame" another rather than take responsibility for ones actions. But I did not mean it like that. God places people where He wishes them to be when it comes to knowledge and understanding of Him and how we fit within His family. God gives us free will to choose how best to achieve that. An atheist, polytheist or infidel !!! Can say such but as they lack faith in God then their words are empty and mean nothing. God abhors evil this is obvious. God does not act against His nature and therefore will not guide people astray. Christians are not slaves, we are children of God, humble servants but never slaves. How do you know what Allah accepts as justification or who he considers liars?Quote2- You always say " God placed us where God wants us to be, " . This saying is not true .It is called in language " The justification with fate and destiny". The theif can say that phrase to justify the theft "God placed me where he wants me to be" " If he wanted me to be honest he would do that"Then he is a theif accoding to the will of God ( God forbid) Also the atheist and the polytheist or the infidel can say that " God placed me where he wants me to be".This is the will of Allah (God fobid ) . Allah does not satisfy infidelity or evil for his slaves. In the past some polytheist said that Justification and Allah did not accept their justification and considered them liars.
Yes, I will concur and agree that God knows well what is in our hearts, there is no hiding. I am not afraid.Quote148. Those who give partners (to Allah. will say: "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would Our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." so did their ancestors argue falsely, until They tasted of Our Wrath. say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? if so, produce it before us. ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."(6/148)
-- Allah also says "7. If ye reject ((Allah)), truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not blasphemy from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your return, when He will Tell you the truth of all that ye did (in This life). for He knoweth well all that is In (men's) hearts.(39/7) Thank you dear Pandora.
to be continued
May God bless you and continue to guide you.
عضو مميز
Dear Pandora,QuoteHere you misunderstand. When Exodus states God "rested" it does not mean God had exhausted His energy, that is a ridiculous notion. The day of rest, as the verse states refers to the Sabbath.
-- The text is clear but I will leave that with the explanation of St. Augustine who said :" the rest is the rest of those who rest in Allah". But who changed the word of God "Saturday" by "Sunday" (Human or God)
-- This interpretation is comman between all Christians.If you want to choose a teacher to teach your children boys and girls , will you choose any one ? or there must be certain qualities? such as respect , good manners,patience , science and good dressing.He will be a model to your Children. Do you as a human (who has limited knowledge) use your mind , wisdom and intelligence to choose a teacher and The Almighty Allah who is full of wisdom and knowledge ,who is well acpuainted with all things choose fornicated prophets to guide people to Allah and be models to all people.Is that logical ?. Are not there humans who are righteous,pure and pious in that world.? Yes , humans commit sins but messengers and prophets never commit high sins as killing, theft or adultery .So we deny all thses dirty things on prophets and messengers. In fact you give infallibility to priests and and deny it for prophets and messengers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!QuoteNo, the image of the prophets is accurate and true. There is nothing shameful in an accurate portrayal of a man if it shows his strengths and weaknesses. For that's what they were, the prophets.... Men and women, human
I will complete in another message.
to be contiued
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
member
I should maybe wait for your next post, however I will respond thus far.Quote
Where did God state which day was to be the sabbath? God says six days we work on the seventh it is reserved for God. Most Christians equate "Lord's Day" ( Sunday) with "Sabbath", this is kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist. For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day. The sabbath for Jews begins on Friday and ends on Saturday, generally thought of as the last day of the week. Sunday being considered both the first day and the last. Do muslims observe a sabbath? If so what day? Friday? In a period of seven days one of those days is to be observed as the sabbath.. Which is totally reserved for God. As to who decided which day it is to be is immaterial the main issue is that we reserve one day out of seven as a sabbath.
Quote-- ThisDirty things!!!! What do you mean by this? Human nature...? Are prophets considered to be more than human then? What do you mean by high sins please? A sin is a sin before a Holy God, there are no big sin or small sin .. Only sin.. And all sin is an affront to God.Quoteinterpretation is comman between all Christians.If you want to choose a teacher to teach your children boys and girls , will you choose any one ? or there must be certain qualities? such as respect , good manners,patience , science and good dressing.He will be a model to your Children. Do you as a human (who has limited knowledge) use your mind , wisdom and intelligence to choose a teacher and The Almighty Allah who is full of wisdom and knowledge ,who is well acpuainted with all things choose fornicated prophets to guide people to Allah and be models to all people.Is that logical ?. Are not there humans who are righteous,pure and pious in that world.? Yes , humans commit sins but messengers and prophets never commit high sins as killing, theft or adultery .So we deny all thses dirty things on prophets and messengers. In fact you give infallibility to priests and and deny it for prophets and messengers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will complete in another message.
to be contiued
Outward appearance of good manners, patience, nice clothes and kind demeanour are not evidence of a pious person. Do not forget satan is the master of deception and lies... Satan can easily masquerade as a paragon of virtue to achieve his aim. You are of course free to see the prophets as somehow super human and above all temptation, but that view can not be real, as if they are human then they are prone to sin and you ignore that to your own peril.
Priests are men, as such they are sinners. Where on earth do you get the idea that they are infallible? They are not, they are human so cannot be infallible. They have never been viewed as such. The only sinless person to ever walk the earth Christians will recognise is Jesus. The Quran agrees that Jesus was without sin does it not? Every other being from Adam onwards with the exception of Jesus is a sinner and in need of Gods redemption.
Maybe we view sin differently.
peace to you.
عضو مميز
Dear Pandora,
-- By the way God is called " Allah" in The Holy Bible and in the Holy Quran in all Arabian versions , in all Arabian countries. All Christians and Muslims say "Allah" not God. Allah (pbth) created us free to believe or not believe. If Allah wanted all people of that world to worship him only ,he would have forced them to do that and that is very easy for him. But Allah wanted his creatures to come to him voluntarily with all love and satisfaction. Allah said in the Holy Quran :Quote* God abhors evil this is obvious. God does not act against His nature and therefore will not guide people astray.
29. Say, "The truth is from your Lord": let Him who believe, and let Him who will, reject (it) (18/29)
256. Let there be no compulsion In religion: truth stands out Clear from error: Whoever rejects evil and believes In Allah hath grasped the Most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. and Allah heareth and knoweth all things.(2/256)
-- Allah (pbth) sent prophets and messengers one after other to teach people the way of astray and the straight way.Also he descended his Holy Books to be constitution for them and gave them the freedom to choose their way .He granted them the grace of mind In order to distinguish between right and wrong. Wheat from the chaff..They have to use these graces to choose but he said :
3. We showed Him the way: whether He be grateful or ungrateful (rests on His Will).
4. For the rejecters we have prepared chains, yokes, and a Blazing Fire.
5. As to the righteous, They shall drink of a cup mixed with Kafur,-(76/2-5)
-- He (pbth) also said: 15. Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for His own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to His own loss: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would we visit with Our wrath until we had sent an apostle (to give warning) (17/15)
-- Then every one is responsible for himself and should bear the result of his deeds in that world although He (pbth) can guide who he wants to astray or to straight way . Allah is not unjust to his slaves (or his servants as you like).
-- You say that you are children of God . Why do you claim that Jesus is God because they called him "the son of God" equals completely what you said that you are the child of God .Is there any differences beteen the two phrases? Why did not you call "Adam" God as he is a son of god in the Bible and he does not have a father or a mother ?Quote* Christians are not slaves, we are children of God, humble servants but never slaves. How do you know what Allah accepts as justification or who he considers liars?
Why did not you call Soloman or Israel or David Gods although they are sons of God in the Bible?
Why did not you call peacemakers Gods athough they are sons of God in the Bible? (Mat 5/9)
Why did not you call those who are led by the spirit of God (Gods) although they are sons of God in the Bible (the exambles are many )
-- Is this son-ship actually or metaphorically ? I think they never be actually.What is your point of view ?
--- You said " Christians are not slaves" " humble servants but never slaves."
I appreciate the sensitivity of the word slave . In fact it is written "slave" in the Arabic Bible and in the Quran too. The slavery to human is a state of humiliation and indignity but the slavery to the Almihgty Allah is pride, dignity and sublimity. The messenger of Allah said :" Those who humble themselves to Allah , Allah will lift them".(means Allah will lift their values and bring them closer to him (pbth) .
-- In fact we are proud that the Almighty Allah is our Beneficent and Merciful Master. We Muslims are proud that we are slaves of that great and dignity Holy master .He is more beneficent and more merciful than our fathers and mothers. No human master in that world equals him in his compassion , generosity and tender. Have you ever seen a master feeds his slave if he is hungry , drinks him if he is thirsty ,heals him if he is ill, grants him housing ,wife and children as he had granted him before mind , eyes ,ears, one tongue and two leps.hands ,legs. Allah says in the Holy Quran : 34. And He giveth you of all that ye ask for. but if ye count the favours of Allah, never will ye be able to number them. Verily, man is given up to injustice and ingratitude.(14/34)
-- Dear Pandora, be humble and modest to Allah and be good slave to Good Master . Mohammad (pbuh) taught us to call him "the slave of Allah and him messenger "Jesus (pbuh) was a model of the great slave to Allah . He used to pray prostrating to Allah ,putting his face on the dust begging to the Almighty God asking him what he wants with all humbly and love. The Holy Bible says :
A) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.(Mat26/39)
B) And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.(Mar 14/35)
C) And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.(Lu 6/12)
--- To whom was Jesus putting his face in dust praying ? to his God and our God or to himself? To whom was he begging to pass the cup from him? I think that he was praying to the only true God that he sent him to mankind .The God that no one saw him or heard his voice .Is he god .Have you ever heard about god who puts his face on dust asking other to help him? little mind Please.
Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.Peace be with you and your family.
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
member
Of course God is known as Allah by Christians living in Arab lands. Allah is an Arabic word for God, why would this be unusual? Yet, you may understand when they pray to their Allah they have in their minds YHWH, God of the Bible, they pray the same way as Christians worldwide pray, whichever language used the prayers are the same. I have no issue with the term Allah for God as long as you mean it is the same God as YHWH, the same God as all the prophets knew. If you prefer I can use the term Allah instead of God if you are more comfortable with that.Quote
Yes, I agree that Allah grants us grace to choose freely to accept Him as he has revealed Himself to us or to reject Him the gain or loss is for our own choice to make. There is no compulsion. So it would be better to desist from Dawah and instead respect the choice of others to accept God/Allah that has been revealed to them. God wishes us to come to Him through love because worship offered from any other standpoint is empty and worthless. What use to God/Allah prayers from hearts devoid of love? This is obvious for all to understand regardless of religion.
Christians see prophets as having a greater role than simply showing us a right path. As I see it Islam is about the seeking of God/Allah... Christianity is about God/Allah seeking to establish community and relationship with mankind, which was always the intention for mankind before the fall of Adam changed our direction. God has shown how this is possible through the Christ. You have chosen a different path, I can hope and pray for you that it is the right path and I truly believe that God shows mercy and compassion for all who worship Him from sincere hearts and from love.
Quote-- You say that you are children of God . Why do you claim that Jesus is God because they called him "the son of God" equals completely what you said that you are the child of God .Is there any differences beteen the two phrases? Why did not you call "Adam" God as he is a son of god in the Bible and he does not have a father or a mother ?QuoteWhy did not you call Soloman or Israel or David Gods although they are sons of God in the Bible?
Why did not you call peacemakers Gods athough they are sons of God in the Bible? (Mat 5/9)
Why did not you call those who are led by the spirit of God (Gods) although they are sons of God in the Bible (the exambles are many )
-- Is this son-ship actually or metaphorically ? I think they never be actually.What is your point of view ?
We use the term children of God because those saved through Jesus and accept the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit thus becoming part of the living Gospel of Christ Jesus become children of God.
Romans 8:14–17
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
There are many references to the term "Son of God" in the Bible. However, we see that the term son when used in relation to Jesus is unique. I attach a link which explains very well what the differences are and why we hold the Son ship of Jesus as different from for example Adam. Adam was a creation... Jesus is eternal.
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-Sonship.html
Please do not imply that we see "son" as actual. This is blasphemy... And I am not happy with that. I do not understand why the Quran seemingly misrepresents Jesus as son of God, and implies a physical union. Which is abhorrent to Christians.
Quote--- You said "QuoteChristians are not slaves" " humble servants but never slaves."
I appreciate the sensitivity of the word slave . In fact it is written "slave" in the Arabic Bible and in the Quran too. The slavery to human is a state of humiliation and indignity but the slavery to the Almihgty Allah is pride, dignity and sublimity. The messenger of Allah said :" Those who humble themselves to Allah , Allah will lift them".(means Allah will lift their values and bring them closer to him (pbth) .
-- In fact we are proud that the Almighty Allah is our Beneficent and Merciful Master. We Muslims are proud that we are slaves of that great and dignity Holy master .He is more beneficent and more merciful than our fathers and mothers. No human master in that world equals him in his compassion , generosity and tender. Have you ever seen a master feeds his slave if he is hungry , drinks him if he is thirsty ,heals him if he is ill, grants him housing ,wife and children as he had granted him before mind , eyes ,ears, one tongue and two leps.hands ,legs. Allah says in the Holy Quran : 34. And He giveth you of all that ye ask for. but if ye count the favours of Allah, never will ye be able to number them. Verily, man is given up to injustice and ingratitude.(14/34)
Then if it is seen as an honour to be thought of as slave then that is fine for you, I respect that. I have no experience of slaves, but from cases I have read about slaves they were rarely treated well.
Quote--I have always been humble before God, Jesus was never a slave but forever the loving son and obedient servant. Jesus taught us how to pray, and we do so according to His teaching. Jesus usually prayed alone in a quiet place, he often knelt and sometimes prostrated, Christians do so also, Jesus also taught that it did not matter which direction we faced as God was everywhere and would hear our prayers from wherever we are if our prayers are sincere and from the heart. Of course Jesus prayed to God... Jesus was always subordinate to God the father God the father is all powerful, all mighty and all worship is for Him alone.QuoteDear Pandora, be humble and modest to Allah and be good slave to Good Master . Mohammad (pbuh) taught us to call him "the slave of Allah and him messenger "Jesus (pbuh) was a model of the great slave to Allah . He used to pray prostrating to Allah ,putting his face on the dust begging to the Almighty God asking him what he wants with all humbly and love. The Holy Bible says :
A) And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.(Mat26/39)
B) And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.(Mar 14/35)
C) And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.(Lu 6/12)
--- To whom was Jesus putting his face in dust praying ? to his God and our God or to himself? To whom was he begging to pass the cup from him? I think that he was praying to the only true God that he sent him to mankind .The God that no one saw him or heard his voice .Is he god .Have you ever heard about god who puts his face on dust asking other to help him? little mind Please.
Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.Peace be with you and your family.
May God continue to guide you and bless you.
عضو مميز
Dear Pandora,
-- I would like to say that Jesus (pbth) used to pray prostrating putting his face on dust with all humbly and surrender to the Almighty Allah .Have you ever followed him in your praying ?.Have you ever tasted the thrill of prostration to the Almighty Allah who no one has seen him or heard his voice ?. It is the true happiness to do that. The messenger of Allah "Muhammad" (pbuh) taught us that when the slave is prostrating , he is being in the closest state to Allah.
-- In regards to what you quoted from John 1 /5/10/14/15/17 to prove that Jesus (pbuh) is Allah ( God Forbid ) .What you quoted are outside the text ( as you always say ) , But trust me if anyone reads all these chapters with his simple own mind and easy own thought away from the complicated thoughts of his fathers and his priests he will discover that these chapters deny the divinity of Jesus .Jesus (pbuh) was so clear to prove his humanity. He (pbuh) was talking about two, he and Allah the only true God who sent him. I hope that you reread them but without any background or any preivous ideas.I can comment on every chapter if you would like.
-- In fact a lot of priests deceive you and plant unreasonable ideas in your mind (Taking the chance that you look at them as angles) as they do in your ancestors when they persuaded them that they can buy parts of lands in Paradise versus taking their money. Historically that was known as " Deeds of forgiveness ". Their immorality reached to persuade people to buy land in Paradise for their dead relatives.
-- Excuse me . I will tell you something in present . I saw a video about a big priest who wanted to persuade a large audience of Christians that The Holy Quran admits that Jesus is god . What did the priest do ? . The Holy Quran talked about the Miracles that God gave to Christ (pbuh) .Allah said :-
110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to Thee and to Thy mother. Behold! I strengthened Thee with the holy spirit, so that Thou Didst speak to the people In childhood and In maturity. Behold! I taught Thee the Book and Wisdom, the law and the Gospel and Behold! Thou makest out of clay, As it Were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and Thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and Thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. and Behold! Thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. and Behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) Thee when Thou Didst Show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'(5/110)
-- The priest read these verses but he hided or removed the phrase (by my leave ) .Then he said to people : " Allah only who is able to do that , then Jesus is God" . Of course , the man deceived all people because Jesus (pbuh) did all these deeds by the leave of Allah only.
to be continued
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
عضو مميز
what is the relationship between (the spirit –the water –the blood) and (the father-the son-the holy spirit).Who do you worship the father or the son or the Holy spirit ?QuoteIts not about deletion it's about interpretation. The Spirit and the water and the blood refers to the concept of the trinity.
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
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