How could Islam be a direct continuous of all religions claiming there is but one God, when they say different things? Zoroastrianism claims God created the world but he did not create Satan (how could he create evil if he is all good…)
Satan created demons and witches and monsters to destroy the creation of God…
Zoroastrianism says God created one human being, and after he died and was buried, a plant grew out of his bones and Adam and Eve grew out of that plant…
You are still incorrect saying that most Christians believe in the trinity. Christians believe in God and believe Jesus is his son born of a mortal woman, Jesus refers to himself as the "Son of Man" in the New Testament. Christians believe he is the suffering Messiah and that he is one with God, in the same way that one man has both a body and a torso – one God is the holy spirit and Jesus. There's actually a lot of evidence to support that belief- in Genesis 1, God is a spirit, hovering over the water (Gen 1:2), but the spirit of God can "wear" people, just like you can put on clothes… (Judges 6:34 for example) and God shows up in human form even in Genesis- Adam and Eve hear him WALKING in the garden- not hovering… Jacob is described wrestling with A MAN- that has thighs, head, body, feet, toes… yet he calls that place "The face of God" (Hebrew PneiEl) and explains: "for I have seen God face to face" and just think of it, God created man in his image… so what would God's image be??? Only Christians believe in 3 gods as in the sense of the holy trinity, and some Christians don't even believe Jesus is divine.
So… Jehovah's witness believe and preach the faith in one God only, but Islam is not the international version of Jehovah's witness because Jehovah's witness say something that isn't in line with Islam- i.e. that Jesus is God's son. So how is Islam in line with Zoroastrianism or any other monotheistic religion if they say things that are not in line with Islam, for example, that Satan created the Genies, rather than that Allah created them from fire?
According to Quran, Abraham did not place Isaac on the alter but rather, it was Ishmael (since Isaac wasn't born yet)- it is not in line with Judaism, so how is it an international version of Judaism?
In Judaism, God promises to punish the wicked of his people, but never to utterly abandon them, never to stop being their God, even if they break their covenant with him- he will remember his everlasting covenant with them- how is that in line with Islam claiming God deserted the Jews for their iniquities???
The 7 commandments of the sons of Noah are:
Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it was still alive
Establishment of courts of law
If you keep them, then you shall go to heaven, but if a Jew will convert to Islam and adhere to these commandments, he will not go to heaven but be punished… why? Because the Jews were commanded by many more commandments, such as observing Passover and the Day of Atonement, not lighting a fire on the Sabbath, teaching their sons about the Exodus, respecting their parents, not eating the fruits of a tree the first 7 years, not charging interest on loans etc… so a jew will be in a lot of trouble if he converts from Judaism J
"Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble"
you said Islam is the international version of Judaism… kind of a "Judaism for the masses"… if a person is already a jew, already believes in one God and one God only, why- according to Islam- would he need to convert to Islam? قُلْ يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ كَلِمَةٍ سَوَاءٍ بَيْنَنَاوَبَيْنَكُمْ أَلَّانَعْبُدَ إِلَّا اللَّهَ وَلَا نُشْرِكَ بِهِ شَيْئًا
وَلَا يَتَّخِذَبَعْضُنَا بَعْضًا أَرْبَابًا مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَقُولُوااشْهَدُوا بِأَنَّا مُسْلِمُونَ ﴿٦٤﴾
Jews believe in god, they just don't accept Allah as his messenger. So if according to your belief, Jews will go to heaven if they believe in one God, so I as a jew may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true,meanwhile, according to my religion I would be in great trouble and I will never be to heaven if I believe in Islam.
This means that I have to be very careful when taking the decision of believing in Islam, because if my decision is wrong I will be in great trouble…
Christians and Muslims have been around for a very short time in comparison, the only other religion that exists since the days of the bible is Paganism in Eastern Asia. Christianity and Islam grew into a world embracing empires in the same way that Catholicism dominated the earth during the dark ages. Catholicism is now reduced to dominating the Vatican state- a state in the size of 500 square meters. Yes, meters, not even kilometers… other great empires have risen and fallen too. Where is the Greek empire and its Helenism? Where is the Roman empire today? The Ottoman empire? Alexander the great? What happened to the huge MedoPersian empire? What happened to Napoleon? The Holy Roman Empire of Charles V that dominated nearly the entire world? they were all like flames that grew high and fast then burned out and disappeared, it is therefore reasonable to deduct that the Christian denominations and Islam will die out just as Jesus and Muhammad died. Judaism, however, neither grew nor shrunk, it remains constant throughout time, Judaism lives on as long as God is alive because it does not lean on the credibility of a person- Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith etc, but on the mere existence of a deity. Any prophet can be voted a liar and Judaism will remain standing still because it bares no effect on the question of whether God exists or not. But if I prove to you that Muhammad was delusional- either possessed or mentally unstable, Islam will be crushed. If I find the decomposing body of Jesus- Christianity will go out the window, but no truth or discovery can destroy Judaism. Therefore the survival of the jews serves as proof to the existence of that deity, i.e. God. Not as evidence to the legitimacy of this prophet or another. In other words, Jews exists proves God exists, if Jews were to convert to Islam there would be no Jews. If Jews don't exist it is proof God doesn't exist either.
Moses Joshua and David never fought to coerce people to abandon their gods nor their beliefs. They fought to conquer a land- the legitimate and only way to acquire land until the middle of the 19th century… conquering land is not a religious crusade, it’s a fight for limited resources. Nevertheless the jews never aspired to conquer all the lnd in the world and claim it their empire… even politically speaking it is a peaceful nation. The jewish nation saught only one small state for their nomad tribes to settle down in. Jews respect other nations' rights to a land of their own just as they stand firm in their own right to the same: Deuteronomy 2: God commands the Jews not to try to conquer mount Seir- for it is a land belonging to the children of Esau. Not to try to conquer the Moab desert, because it is a land belonging to the children of Lot and so on. The Jews only fought for a small land for themselves, they keep out of other people's business, land and faith. It is the only live and let live monotheistic religion in the world.
"So if prophet Muhamed Pbuh is a true messenger from God, you are not allowed to believe in him and you must believe that he is a liar and if the Quran is really from God you must believe that it's man made, so that Jews survive"
If Muhammad was a true prophet jews would have accepted him, as they did Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah and so so many others… but Muhammad is not a true prophet therefore he was rejected.
"But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." (Deuteronomy 18:20)
Here you have 2 ways to spot a false prophet: a person who either delivers a message that does not come from God or speaks in the names of false gods must be a false prophet. But this means that Muhammad was a false prophet, since he did both when he delivered the "Satanic Verses."… on at least this one occasion, Muhammad preached the word of Satan, which was in line with his own desires, at the same time claiming it was the word of God- though God never commanded him to speak it…
"I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken."
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)
Do you expect God's people to please Him by believing in a false prophet, or do you believe that genuine prophets can indeed deliver false revelations and speak in the names of false gods (in this case- Satan)
Why didn't the Muslims accept Sabbatai Zevi? What's good for the Muslims is not good for the jews?
if there were solid reasons to conclude that Muhammad was a reliable messenger of God, the Jews would have probably suppose that Islam is true. However, if there are strong reasons to question Muhammad’s trustworthiness, would you then reject his teachings?
What if I told you there is a good reason to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence?
The earliest Muslim writings and traditions, including the Qur’an, Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, the Sahih Al-Bukhari, and the Sahih Muslim, provide abundant warrant for rejecting Muhammad as a prophet. All these are primary source documents and they show that Muhammad was often violent and ruthless towards those who insulted him (not God, but him himself...) that he received revelations allowing him to transgress other revelations in the Qur’an, (prophecy expired? Or double standards?) that he felt contempt towards women, that was slave trading, that he permitted violence towards women, and that one of his sexual partners was a nine-year-old child. Muhammad declared that lying is acceptable if it is used to make peace… doesn't it make you wonder how often he lied while preaching his message, for the sake of creating peace and uniting Christians, Jews and Pagans?
In addition to all this, there are reasons to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence. The evidence from the earliest accounts of his life shows that he may have been psychologically or spiritually unstable before, during, and after his conversion to Islam. Considering this instability how can Islam be a rational system of belief?
evidence that Muhammad was imbalanced goes all the way back to his childhood. His parents died when he was young, so he was brought up by his grandfather and his uncle. Muhammad had a nurse who took care of him prior to his mother’s death. This nurse told about this strange event that occurred during Muhammad’s childhood:
Some months after our return [Muhammad] and his brother were with our lambs behind the tents when his brother came running and said to us, "Two men clothed in white have seized that Qurayshi brother of mine and thrown him down and opened up his belly, and are stirring it up." We ran towards him and found him standing up with a livid face. We took hold of him and asked him what was the matter. He said, "Two men in white raiment came and threw me down and opened up my belly and searched therein for I know not what." So we took him back to our tent.
His father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears." So we picked him up and took him to his mother who asked why we had brought him when I had been anxious for his welfare and desirous of keeping him with me. I said to her, "God has let my son live so far and I have done my duty. I am afraid that ill will befall him, so I have brought him back to you as you wished." She asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her. When she asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of Muhammad), A. Guillaume, tr. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980), p. 71-72)
Muhammad’s nurse wasn’t the only one to fear demonic possession on the part of Muhammad; the Prophet himself came to the exact same conclusion when he began receiving revelations from Gabriel. A full account of Muhammad’s first encounter with Gabriel is given in the Sirat Rasul Allah:
When it was the night on which God honored him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. "He came to me," said the apostle of God, "while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What then shall I read?’—and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said:
‘Read in the name of thy Lord who created,
Who created man of blood coagulated.
Read! Thy Lord is the most beneficent,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught that which they knew not unto men.’
So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart."
So far so good, except for the violent manner in which Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad. But Muhammad’s interpretation of the event is quite revealing. His first impression of his encounter was that he had been possessed; as a result, Muhammad quickly became suicidal:
Now none of God’s creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed—Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest.
Muhammad tried to throw himself off a cliff, but he was stopped by Gabriel. He later became suicidal again when no additional revelations came.
Now tell me that this is not the behavior of a mad man, belonging in a nut house: "he was sitting on a chair in between the sky and the earth. I was so frightened by him that I fell on the ground and came to my family and said (to them), Cover me! (with a blanket), cover me!" (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3238.)
And what is this? Epilepsy? "When the Ka’ba was rebuilt, the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abbas went to carry stones. Abbas said to the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him): "(Take off and) put your waist sheet over your neck so that the stones may not hurt you." (But as soon as he took off his waist sheet) he fell unconscious on the ground with both his eyes towards the sky. When he came to his senses, he said: "My waist sheet! My waist sheet!" Then he tied his waist sheet (round his waist) (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3829.)
Cold sweat??? "Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) sweated in cold weather when revelation descended upon him" (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 5763.)
High fever??? A’isha reported: When revelation descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) even during the cold days, his forehead perspired.[8]
Breath Holding Spells will cause your face to turn blue… it's another sign of Epilepsy: Ubada bin Samit reported that when wahi (inspiration) descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he felt a burden on that account and the color of his face underwent a change. (Ibid., Number 5766.)
The satanic versus show:
Muhammad’s reception of revelations was influenced by his personal desires;
He received a revelation from Satan;
He proclaimed the revelation as a message from Allah;
He and his followers bowed down in honor of receiving the revelation; and
God’s response was, in effect, "Don’t worry about it Muhammad. All prophets proclaim Satanic messages from time to time."
God’s response to Muhammad was incorporated into the Qur’an:
"And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."
Hence, Satan was capable of influencing both Muhammad and, allegedly, all the prophets before him. But Satan wasn’t the only influence on Muhammad. A Jewish magician named Labid was also able to exercise control over the "Seal of the Prophets."
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: "Once the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact, he had not done."
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) so that he used to think that he had had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. Then one day he said, "O Aisha, do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other: ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied, ‘He is under the effect of magic.’ The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-Asam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’"
Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin A’sam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year."
According to the earliest and most reliable Muslim writings and traditions, Muhammad’s first impression of his divine encounter was that he had been possessed by demons. This encounter disturbed Muhammad so much that he became suicidal. Further, we have a story in Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biography of Muhammad, maintaining that the childhood nurse of the Prophet also thought that he might be demon-possessed. Some of the details of Muhammad’s encounter seem to support this conclusion. He was sometimes terrified of his revelations, screaming for someone to cover him. He would sweat profusely even in the cold, and his face would change color. Additionally, Muhammad could not distinguish genuine revelations from Satanic revelations, and he was the victim of a debilitating magic spell that probably lasted a year.
this evidence is entirely sufficient for a rational person to seriously doubt Muhammad’s reliability as a prophet. A man who (admittedly) proclaimed verses from Satan and fell victim to sorcery while declaring himself to be God’s greatest messenger should not be trusted without exceptionally good evidence to support his claim. Since no such evidence for Islam exists, it is justified to question his role as God’s messenger.
Moreover, when examining the life of another messenger of God, Jesus of Nazareth, we find that Muhammad is to be utterly rejected. Consider one of Jesus’ many encounters with demons:
They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!"
"Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of the man with a shriek.
The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him."
Contrary to what the Qur’an suggests, not all of God’s messengers were the occasional puppets of Satan. The New Testament- which Muslims believe in, gives the account of at least one who had complete authority over demons. If we have to choose which messenger to listen to, is it not reasonable to trust the one who terrified demons with his presence? Furthermore, Jesus warned his followers that "many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."Not all false prophets deliberately deceived their disciples, however. Some were led by Satan to do so, and the evidence strongly suggests that Muhammad falls into this category. Even his own followers said that he was bewitched.
"Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews?"
God can send prophets to other nations and he has done so- Abimelech king of Grar for example, and Balaam Be Beor for another. God also has a promised land saved for other nations but the Jews as stated earlier… God created all humanity and loves them all. He may have separate covenants with others and send them prophets etc. that doesn't mean that he did not single out the Jews to prove his existence through them, and use them as a light to the nations so that eventually the whole world will believe in him (not that the whole world will become Jews… that is simply un necessary)
"Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims"
God can see into the future and he did. He foresaw that the Jews will disobey him and announced what will happen to them- they will be punished. Terribly. But then they will be forgiven and restored. They will never be replaced. Do you suppose God to be a liar promising an eternal covenant to the Jews? Or is he not all knowing and didn't know what will happen in the future to change his mind?
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Originally Posted by MrsClaus92
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