Gods Covenants

[pandora]

I start this thread for friend M.Khaled, because I wish to explain how Christians see Covenants with God in the Bible. The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, four of which ... Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic and Davidic ...God made with the nation of Israel. Of those four, three are unconditional in nature that is to say regardless of Israel's obedience or disobedience, God will still fulfil these covenants with Israel. One of the covenants...the Mosaic Covenant.. is conditional in nature. That is to say this covenant will bring either blessing or cursing depending on Israel's obedience or disobedience. Three of the covenants .. Adamic, Noahic, and the New are made between God and mankind in general, these are not limited to the nation of Israel. I will start with the first Covenant and if there is a wish to I will endeavour to explain how the others are viewed and what impact they have for humanity. We could go on to compare what you see as a covenant in the Quran. Or we can leave it here.. No problem :)

The Adamic Covenant can be thought of in two parts... the Edenic Covenant (innocence) and the Adamic Covenant (grace). The Edenic Covenant is as follows ...


Mankind (male and female) created in God’s image.
Mankind’s dominion (rule) over the animal kingdom.
Divine directive for mankind to reproduce and inhabit the entire Earth.
Mankind to be vegetarian (the eating of meat established in a later Covenant)
Eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil forbidden... This carried the penalty of death.. As in spiritual death.


The Adamic Covenant is the result of Adam’s sin, the following curses were pronounced...


Enmity between Satan and Eve and her descendants.
Painful childbirth for women.
Marital strife.
The soil cursed.
Introduction of thorns and thistles.
Survival to be a struggle.
Death introduced.
Death will be the inescapable fate of all living things.


These curses may seem severe and inescapable, however, God through His mercy included a wonderful promise of grace. This Covenant is also referred to as the "First Gospel" or "Good news". As God says to Satan ...."And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed. He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."


In this God promises that one born of a woman would be wounded in the process of destroying Satan. The "seed" of the woman who would crush the Serpent’s head is shown to be Jesus Christ. In conquering death Jesus triumphed over Satan.. We would not remain dead in our sins but achieve eternal life. So we can see even in the midst of the curse, (because every sin against God carries a penalty) God’s gracious provision of salvation shines through... Through Gods enduring love for us He is prepared to "pay" the penalty.



I understand muslims believe that God simply forgave Adam and Eve and they went on to live their life in worship etc. I do not believe this gives a satisfactory understanding of the nature of sin and the effect this has on a Holy God. Also, I understand that you think that God punished Eve over Adam... Whereas the Quran God just forgives them both.. No penalty paid. The Bible shows the only one who was truly blamed and not forgiven was Satan. Yes, Adam and Eve had to pay for their sin.. But ultimately God gave them a way to make atonement for what was their error and disobedience. As their actions introduced a sinful nature into mankind then by their "seed"mankind would be redeemed. This redemption means that death holds no dominion over those who accept this gift.. Which is Jesus.

Peace and blessings.

M.Khaled.. If you do not wish to carry this thread further, I do hope you enjoy reading it and have gained some understanding of how we see a Covenant. :)

[pandora]

The Noahic Covenant.


This covenant was made between God and Noah. Like Adam...Noah stood as the representative for the entire human race. As a result of the flood, not only is all humanity descended from Adam, but also from Noah. This covenant is for all mankind in general. The Noahic Covenant was the basis for the Dispensation of Human Government


Firstly man was to repopulate the earth. With the exception of eight people, the entire human race was destroyed by the Flood. I'm not sure how much you have of the Story of Noah in the Quran but I know he is seen as a prophet.. The Bible has it that man had vastly increased in numbers, but the wickedness of man was great and an affront to God. Thus God brought universal judgment upon the earth. After the Flood, the earth was essentially empty again. Only eight people remained to repopulate the entire earth. Just as with the Edenic Covenant, man was again commissioned to repopulate the earth, but the command to subdue the earth is not repeated.


Secondly.. the fear of man was put into animals and man was to dominate them. While man had lost authority over the earth, he was still to dominate and have authority over the animal kingdom. For this reason, the fear of man was placed in animals. This fear was a means of self preservation due to the next provision.


Thirdly.. man's diet was to consist of both every moving thing and the green herb. Previously.. his diet had been vegetarian, but now all animals were included. No limitations are given and all animals were fit for food.


Fourthly.. man was forbidden to eat blood. All creatures life.. both man and animal.. is blood sustained. Blood is the symbol of life, and the shedding of blood is the symbol of death. Because blood is the symbol of life, God commanded that it not be eaten or drunk.


Fifthly.. capital punishment became a part of the human economy for the first time in. When Cain killed Abel, Cain was not executed because capital punishment had not yet been instituted. The provision for capital punishment came with the Noahic Covenant and all murderers were to be executed.


Sixthly..the promise of the covenant is that humanity would never again be destroyed by a world wide flood. While there would be local floods that would destroy portions of humanity, never again would there be a world wide flood.


Seventhly.. the token of the covenant was the rainbow. Not every covenant came with a sign or token, but this one did. God promised that humanity will not be destroyed by a flood again should come to remembrance every time a rainbow is seen.

So every time you see a rainbow.. Think of Noah and his covenant with God. :)

[Burninglight]

Yes, our God is a covenant making God!

[pandora]

The Abrahamic Covenant

This is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. I feel that this Covenant is one that most muslims will identify with although do not fully uphold the terms of the Covenant... On that basis you have already broken it. I believe you see yourselves linked to this Covenant through Ismael being a descendant of Abraham. However, the Covenant was not passed through Ishmael but through Isaac. The evidence for this is the Bible is very clear on the matter and the Quran does not mention either Isaac or Ishmael by name.. And it is only down to muslims interpretation that they infer and prefer it to be Ishmael. Yet .. As Ishmael is a descendant of Abraham then he was blessed as were all such descendants.


The actual Abrahamic Covenant is to be found in Genesis 12:1-3...and Genesis 15 ... Should anyone wish to look it up. :)


As well as being non conditional, it is also a literal covenant in which the promises should be understood literally. The land that promised to Abraham should be understood in its literal or normal interpretation ..it is not figurative. It is also an everlasting covenant. The promises that God made to Israel are eternal.


Three main features to the Abrahamic Covenant ~


1. The promise of land. God called Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees to a land that He would give him... This land is still for Abrahams descendants... Whereas others are grafted into Abrahams Covenant spiritually through his "seed". The land was promised to Abrahams descendants.


2. The promise of descendants. God promised Abraham that He would make a great nation out of him. Abraham, who was 75 years old and childless, was promised many descendants. God promised that nations and kings would descend from the Abraham. This promise is expanded in the Davidic Covenant .. (Info to follow) it promises that the Messiah will come from the line of David.


3. The promise of blessing and redemption. God promised to bless Abraham and the families of the earth through him. This promise is again amplified upon in the New Covenant... and has to do with "Israel’s spiritual blessing and redemption." the groundwork is laid for the forgiveness of sin.


4. Both Abraham and Sarah were given new names by God.

5. Circumcision was to be the sign of the Covenant. God decrees that all males will be circumcised on the eighth day.

Faith became an integral part of Abraham's character. He had great confidence that God would fulfill His promises. God viewed Abraham's faith as righteousness. In other words, even though Abraham was not perfect, God regarded him as a righteous man because he deeply believed in and obeyed God. Abraham showed this faith through his unflinching willingness to sacrifice his son when asked by God to do so..

When thinking of faith.. Think on Abraham and his absolute faith that God would provide. Abraham did not ask for proof but put his faith in The Lord and his reward came through his descendants "seed". Everlasting life in Jesus.. :)

Peace.

[فداء الرسول]

Does this mean that you believe in the law of the Old Testament

[pandora]

Quote

Does this mean that you believe in the law of the Old Testament

We believe in the law of the Old Testament, but not all the laws apply to us as Christians... The Old Testament or Torah was aimed at the Jewish people. Hopefully by sharing the Bible Covenants you will be able to understand the meanings behind them. The Mosaic Covenant is the Covenant that mainly deals with law. Christians understand from the Bible that when a new covenant came about, certain rules changed... They were either modified, or affirmed. God's rules to man can change at various covenants... but God's character has never changed. As in the beginning it was decreed mankind were vegetarian after the Noahic Covenant mankind was allowed to eat meat.. Without distinction... Meaning all meat was allowed. In later Covenants this was theme was further developed and restrictions put on creations foods.

[pandora]

The Mosaic Covenant.

This is a conditional covenant made between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. It is sometimes known as the Sinai Covenant but is more often referred to as the Mosaic Covenant since Moses was God's chosen leader of Israel at that time. This covenant is shown to set the nation of Israel apart from all other nations as God's chosen people and was as equally binding as the unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham because it is also a "blood covenant". The Mosaic Covenant is a significant covenant as it shows God's redemptive history through the history of the nation of Israel whom God chose to bless the world with both His written Word and His Living Word Jesus..


The Mosaic Covenant was centred around God's giving His divine law to Moses on Mount Sinai..the divine laws mankind was to live by. It is important to understand that the Mosaic Covenant differs significantly from the Abrahamic Covenant and later biblical covenants because it is conditional in as much the blessings that God promises are directly related to Israel's obedience to the Mosaic Law. If Israel is obedient...then God will bless them...but if they disobey...then God will punish them. The details of the blessings and curses associated with this covenant can be found in Deuteronomy 28. The other covenants found in the Bible are unilateral covenants of promise.. God binds Himself to do what He promised, regardless of what the recipients of the promises might do. However, the Mosaic Covenant as a bilateral agreement.. Specifies obligations of both parties to the covenant.


We see the Mosaic Covenant as especially significant because in it God promises to make Israel "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" . Israel was to be God’s light to the dark world around them. They were to be singled out as a nation so that everyone around them would know that they worshiped YHWH the covenant-keeping God. It is significant because it is here that Israel received the Mosaic Law that pointed the way towards the coming of Jesus the Christ. The Mosaic Law would reveal to people their sinfulness and their need for a Saviour, and it is the Mosaic Law that Jesus Himself said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill. This is an important point because some people get confused by thinking that just keeping the Law saved people in the Old Testament... but the Bible is clear that salvation has always been by faith alone, and the promise of salvation by faith that God had made to Abraham is was still in effect.


Also...the sacrificial system of the Mosaic Covenant did not really take away sins.. it simply foreshadowed the bearing of sin by Jesus as the perfect high priest who was also the perfect sacrifice. The Mosaic Covenant itself...with all its detailed laws..could not save people. This does not mean that there was any problem with the Law itself..for the Law is perfect and was given by a holy God, but the Law had no power to give people new life, and besides the people were not able to ever obey the Law perfectly.

Sometimes referred to as the old covenant we see it replaced by the new covenant in Jesus Christ. In terms of redemption Jesus fulfils the law and promises made. We cannot be saved by the Law alone but it's through the redeeming work of Jesus in fulfilling the Law that we are saved. The Old Covenant was ratified through blood at Sinai.. The New Covenant was ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ through His death and resurrection. The blood shed from the sinless lamb of God is mankind's salvation for eternity.


Peace

[فداء الرسول]

Quote

We believe in the law of the Old Testament, but not all the laws apply to us as Christians... The Old Testament or Torah was aimed at the Jewish people. Hopefully by sharing the Bible Covenants you will be able to understand the meanings behind them. The Mosaic Covenant is the Covenant that mainly deals with law. Christians understand from the Bible that when a new covenant came about, certain rules changed... They were either modified, or affirmed. God's rules to man can change at various covenants... but God's character has never changed. As in the beginning it was decreed mankind were vegetarian after the Noahic Covenant mankind was allowed to eat meat.. Without distinction... Meaning all meat was allowed. In later Covenants this was theme was further developed and restrictions put on creations foods.

But Jesus says

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Any difference between new testament and the old is a violation of the Covenant of Jesus

[pandora]

Quote

But Jesus says

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Any difference between new testament and the old is a violation of the Covenant of Jesus

Did I not already say that Jesus came to fulfil the law? Which he did in the new covenant which was the final covenant and which I will explain when I get to it. :)


blessings.

[فداء الرسول]

Quote

Did I not already say that Jesus came to fulfil the law? Which he did in the new covenant which was the final covenant and which I will explain when I get to it. :)


blessings.

You said

but not all the laws apply to us as Christians... The Old Testament or Torah was aimed at the Jewish people

This varies with the

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.