Interview with Burninglight :. About the status of women in Islam and Christianity

[Burninglight]

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any comment ???






What do you think ????
The Lord can't do that ???





You have to protest in front of the christian web site who said that not in front of me !

I don't know what to tell you except take it up with the one who sent the torah not us Christians. We follow Jesus who said love your enemies.

[*اسلامي عزي*]

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I don't know what to tell you except take it up with the one who sent the torah not us Christians. We
follow Jesus who said love your enemies.

According to the christian faith ==> Yahweh = Jesus .
Maybe you forgot the fact that who sent the torah is the same one who sent the new testament !

[Burninglight]

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According to the christian faith ==> Yahweh = Jesus .
Maybe you forgot the fact that who sent the torah is the same one who sent the new testament !

We are in agreement here!

[*اسلامي عزي*]

God is angry with Israel because of their idolatry ===> i' totally agree with you.
but...
What is the crime committed by the young and innocent children and for that they are slaughtered !

[pandora]

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any comment ???

You are not interested in explanations, so I'm not sure it worth my time and effort to offer you one for Ezekiel 9:6 which you I think are hoping puts Christians in a difficult position. Well it doesn't.. I'll keep it brief. ~

God is angry with Israel because of their sin, particularly their idolatry. There can be no truce between God and sin. Where he sees lawlessness and godlessness, he cannot but react with holy aversion. It is his very nature to react in wrath against sin and its perpetrators. Surely Allah does show righteous wrath on occasion.. If not then how can he be just? Were God to be without anger towards sin, the world would have no meaning. Though these chapters are tough and unrelenting, the message of grace shines through in a remnant that God, and God alone, rescues.

In chapter 28 we see an account of the fall of Satan..


"Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I exposed you before kings,
to feast their eyes on you.
By the multitude of your iniquities,
in the unrighteousness of your trade
you profaned your sanctuaries; ..." (Ezek 28:17-18a)

to to understand the context here you need to understand the Prophet. Read Ezekiel he was a prophet who had quite an insight into sin, and how God relates to it. That's why Christians accept what you see as "difficult" passages as having an importance to Gods plan. We need to know Gods wrath is real and it is to be feared.. We never question Gods divine judgement even when it seems harsh because we know God will prevail over evil whatever the cost.

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What do you think ????
The Lord can't do that ???

For sure yes of course.. God is omnipresent. It is you who is saying that Jesus was mentioned as the angel when He patently was not mentioned at all.

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You have to protest in front of the christian web site who said that not in front of me !

No need.. They are entitled to their opinion, I believe they are wrong to interpret the Angel of The Lord with Jesus Christ because no where does the Bible say Jesus is an angel.

Peace..

[Burninglight]

Christian women share the same inheritance as Christian men in the hereafter, but do Muslim women share the same as Muslim men?

[*اسلامي عزي*]

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He is the one who sent down the torah.

The true God does not order - in any circumstances - the killing of innocent babys !

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Maybe God allowed it to be done because the children would carry on the idolatry, sin and wickedness of their parents.

put the text from the OT .please !

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I don't see muslims arguing with Allah about the difficult and violent verses in the Quran that call muslims to pass violent judgement on unbelievers for example.

Allah order Muslims to fight and kill only the pagans and the polytheists warriors .
where is the problem ????

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Christian women share the same inheritance as Christian men in the hereafter, but do Muslim women share the same as Muslim men?

the answer is NO .

Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females.

the holy Qura'n 4 : 11

who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones !

deut 21 : 17

But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.




here is the position of the women in Christianity .
she is like a merchandise !

Mat 18 : 25

But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

Exodus 21 : 7

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.



PEACE ....

[pandora]

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The true God does not order - in any circumstances - the killing of innocent babys !

in the Bible God does what ever is necessary. He is not a wishy washy God but a strong and all powerful God.. For which anything is possible. As we believe in His mercy, Love and divine justice we do not question His judgement.

***"It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Deuteronomy 9:5)***

In some instances, God ordered the killing of entire populations...which presumably included the killing of babies and children. The Bible teaches that all people are sinners, including babies... Which is not to say they are born with sin already but a sin nature.. As we all are... Which makes everyone worthy of judgment. However.. the Bible also teaches that children are incapable of making moral choices, so that they are automatically rewarded with heaven. So... A kindness in one way if they had grown up corrupted by the adults around them ... opposed to God, they would have gone to hell. As God is omniscient then it would have been clear knowledge and just. The judgement of Sodom comes to mind.

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put the text from the OT .please !

***"You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Deuteronomy 12:31***


***The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. Psalm 58:3 ***


***"and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons. For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you." Deuteronomy 7:4***

***Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him. Judges 10:6***

***The men of Babylon made Succoth-benoth, the men of Cuth made Nergal, the men of Hamath made Ashima, and the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak; and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech the gods of Sepharvaim. 2 Kings 17:30-31***

Is God right to be angered by godless behaviour and sin?? Where is the problem with God dealing with sin according to His divine knowledge and justice? Who are you to say God is not acting with mercy in ordering the deaths of children? You know all there is to God now????

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Allah order Muslims to fight and kill only the pagans and the polytheists warriors .
where is the problem ????

I have no problem with accepting Gods judgement. It is YOU who are questioning it.. Not I.

***I would caution you not to judge God, since it is said, "Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." Romans 2:1***

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the answer is NO .

Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females.

the holy Qura'n 4 : 11

who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones !

deut 21 : 17

But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.

There you go with your little round of self congratulation again.. For your misinterpretation of biblical scripture. This law restrains men from disinheriting their eldest sons without just cause. The principle in this case as to children, is still binding to parents... they must give children their right without partiality... Seeing as polygamy was not widely practiced and was not favoured by God. The law also applies to children from a previous wife who may have died or divorced. It means the children of this wife cannot be cheated out of their rightful inheritance.

The Right of the Firstborn
***15 If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16 when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17 He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father's strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him. Deuteronomy 21:15-17 ***

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here is the position of the women in Christianity .
she is like a merchandise !

Mat 18 : 25

But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

Exodus 21 : 7

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.



PEACE ....

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Matthew 18:21-35 is a Parable... Read it in context and I hope the meaning will become clear to you...

***The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”


22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.


23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.


26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.


28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.


29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’


30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.


32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.


35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”***

This is not a judgement against women.. Or women being treated as merchandise. However, as you forever do.. Mine quoting snippets of scripture out of context. Are you trying to convince me or yourself by this method? It's not working for me.

Exodus 21:7-11


***7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.***

....Not sure why you're asking Christians when this is ancient Judaic law that is no longer in force. Anyway... At that time it wasn't uncommon for poor families to give their children up to slavery. Although Slavery wasn't as bad as we think of it today.. It was more like indenture or servitude. Instead of families letting their children starve or die from sickness, they would send them to be maids or farmers under a Master so that they could receive food, water, shelter, clothing, income, etc.. These "slaves" were treated more like servants or workers contract rather than our definition of slaves.

This passage is discussing the treament of female "servants" in specific. Women were highly protected under the Jewish law due to the fact that they were highly vulnerable in society. This is why we see so many extra laws of protection revolving around women. If a father gave up his daughter, than the "Master"would have to take on the duties of a father. He was not allowed to sell her to foreigners ...as that could endanger her life... If he was unpleased with her abilities to work, she was simply set free from the contract. He also wasn't able to just get rid of her when her time working was up. The men could simply be let free, because they could find other work easy enough. It was not so easy for women to find work so the "Master" was not allowed to just let her leave, and end up in a life of poverty. Sometimes they would arrange marriages for these women.. Which meant they were guaranteed a level of security and care.
Once again context is important... And understanding who the law was written for in the first place.. Which wasn't Christians.

peace to you.

[*اسلامي عزي*]

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He is not a wishy washy God but a strong and all powerful God

i' do not think so !
1- the supposed God of the universe can not win a struggle with One of his creatures ????
Genesis 32 : 26
2- the supposed God can not defend himself against the Roman soldiers who beat & spit on him !
Matthew 27:30

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Is God right to be angered by godless behaviour and sin?? Where is the problem with God dealing with sin according to His divine knowledge and justice? Who are you to say God is not acting with mercy in ordering the deaths of children? You know all there is to God now????

Sorry, I do not believe in a butcher who order the killing of babies just to achieve his presumed " justice" !
I'm not alone who say this .
the arabic-christian priest named George Khedr shares with me the same opinion !

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There you go with your little round of self congratulation again

i ' repeat again : the applauses are not for me - a self congratulation - !
they are for the Bible 's texts supporting my point .

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they must give children their right without partiality
.

The Bible says the opposite !



the hated woman's firstborn will receive a double portion !

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Read it in context and I hope the meaning will become clear to you

the meaning is clear like the mud

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Although Slavery wasn't as bad as we think of it today.. It was more like indenture or servitude
.

again :

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3 : 7

read this please :

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
the slave =
1 -A person who is held in bondage to another; one who is wholly subject to the will of another; one who is held as a chattel; one who has no freedom of action, but whose person and services are wholly under the control of another.

KJV Dictionary Definition: slave


1-A mean person; one in the lowest state of life.
2-One who has lost the poser of resistance; or one who surrenders himself to any power whatever; as a slave to passion, to lust, to ambition.

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Women were highly protected under the Jewish law due to the fact that they were highly vulnerable in society.

the bible says the opposite !
the Jewish law consider woman inferior and unclean during her menstruation !

Leviticus 15 : 19

When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.



please read this :










peace to you.

[pandora]

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i' do not think so !
1- the supposed God of the universe can not win a struggle with One of his creatures ????
Genesis 32 : 26

I already explained Genesis 32:26 here.... http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/t199631.html

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2- the supposed God can not defend himself against the Roman soldiers who beat & spit on him !
Matthew 27:30

***The Power to Lay It Down - John 10:17-18
"The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can get it back again. No person takes my life away from me. I give my own life freely. I have the right to give my life. And I have the right to get it back again. This is what the Father told me."***


Jesus didn't just die; he died with power and authority. His life wasn't taken from him; he laid it down willingly to die for our sins. His crucifixion was an apparent defeat for him, but turned into a lasting defeat for the Satan who sought to use his death to win a victory over God. No one could take Jesus' life. He gave it willingly to save us and purchase us from death. The Cross is God's power demonstrated in humanity's worst forum. It is our glory! You shall remain dead in your sins.

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Sorry, I do not believe in a butcher who order the killing of babies just to achieve his presumed " justice" !
I'm not alone who say this .
the arabic-christian priest named George Khedr shares with me the same opinion !

it is of no importance to me weather you believe in God or not... Or even what your Arabic Christian priest may believe on the subject. It would have been useful if you had included something of his statements on the matter.. Because saying he shares the same opinion as yourself... No offence... But that does not fill me with any confidence... Unless you have misunderstood what he believes as you tend to do with scripture. That is quite possible.

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i ' repeat again : the applauses are not for me - a self congratulation - !
they are for the Bible 's texts supporting my point .

Yes.. But the Bible does NOT support your points.. You just think they do. There's a difference.

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The Bible says the opposite !

the hated woman's firstborn will receive a double portion !

Nope... That's the law as it stood. A bit like the law in regards to inheritance in Islam.. Sons getting the greater share.. No difference here.. So what's your problem?

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the meaning is clear like the mud

Well! that's a shame. You would do well to read the parables of Jesus. You would understand Him the better if you did. Jesus is not the failure the Quran implies. It doesn't matter that you do not believe in Him or love Him.. But you should know He believes in you and loves you. Knock and the door is opened to you.

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again :

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3 : 7

not sure what point you are making here. No matter.

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read this please :

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
the slave =
1 -A person who is held in bondage to another; one who is wholly subject to the will of another; one who is held as a chattel; one who has no freedom of action, but whose person and services are wholly under the control of another.

KJV Dictionary Definition: slave


1-A mean person; one in the lowest state of life.
2-One who has lost the poser of resistance; or one who surrenders himself to any power whatever; as a slave to passion, to lust, to ambition.

As slaves of Allah do either of these definitions apply to you? I explained the meaning as understood from the biblical context. That you choose to see a different connotation to this is no surprise.

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the bible says the opposite !
the Jewish law consider woman inferior and unclean during her menstruation !

Leviticus 15 : 19

When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

I've deleted your round of applause because quite frankly.. It's yet again out of place. It's not even worth my time and effort explaining what this means.. I will say the same goes for men.. As in the emission of bodily fluids renders them unclean for a time. Are you not applying your double standards here though?? Does the Quran not state that a women who is menstruating should not fast or offer certain prayers and has to make up for what's missed after her menstruating period is over? Does Islam prescribe washing after sexual contact? Should a Muslim man refrain from sexual activity with his wife for a period of time following childbirth? Maybe as the Quran has similar requirements as the Old Testament on these matters it rather makes such comparisons a waste of time.

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please read this :










peace to you.

Yes... Those ancient Patriarchs said some quite ridiculous things. It's a cause for sadness that such misogynistic ideas still permeate societies today.. Even Islamic ones. Where women may well have been granted many equalities in early Islam many women today do not enjoy those equalities. Women historically have always had a raw deal when men have made the rules. At least as a Christian woman I know that I am a spiritually equal with a Christian man before God. That's where it counts. Besides as women in most countries enjoy equal rights under the secular law of the land they live in.. Harping on about what a poor deal women may have had in the Middle Ages rather meaningless.

Always a pleasure never a chore talking with you....

peace to you.