Very good replies Pandora. I would like to add or qualify one thing you said for our Muslim brothers and that is about when Jesus died, the curtain (veil) inside the Temple that separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place tore from top to bottom (Exodus 26:33; Matthew 27:51) (Exodus 26:33; Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45). This tearing signified that man now had unimpeded access to God. The clarifier is that we only have this unimpeded access through Christ Jesus. I know you know this, but they might not.
Now since this thread is open topics on our faiths, and we are limited to only three posts, I would like to comment on the forgotten Holy Spirit thread. This thread is a typical example of Muslims accusing their Christian brothers of exactly what Islam or they're doing; for instance, the Holy Spirit is not forgotten by Christians; it was forgotten by Allah and his slave messenger. Allah never mentions the Holy Spirit as being God or the third person of the trinity to Christians; instead, he implies himself as the third person and Mary as the second. If the Bible has forgotten the Holy Spirit, the Quran trumps the Bible on that, LOL. He calls the Holy Spirit Gabriel. At least we know from our Scriptures that the Holy Spirit is God, and not and angel. As I mentioned, the tri unity of God cannot be explained, nor are we commanded by God to explain Him. For all I know, the Holy Spirit could be the relationship between the father and the son.
Jesus said, if you hate your brother, you are a murderer. Why? Is hating someone the say as murder? Yes, it is! When we hate we kill a relationship. The relationship is just as important as the people having the relationship. God's relationships are spiritual and holy. This is just a thought on my part; I could be wrong, but I believe I see in part as through a glass darkly, but when that which is perfect is come (Jesus), I will see clearly and know even as I am known!
Peace and blessing to all
Actually the fact that you did not answer shows me and the readers that either you do not have an answer !!! that is the basic reality of the situation Pandora
Yet even though I answered all questions addressed to me I am now being accused of not answering in the same response where you yourself admitted to ignoring my responses . What an Irony ????!!!!
None and I repeat none of these passages actually states the name moriahQuoteOriginally Posted by ;Pandora
All these mentions a place without the name and christians and Jews just assumed were Moriah based on their understanding
So the land was still mentioned once in genesis without location with a contradiction
unfortunatlly the samaritans differ on the location , since they do not believe in the first and second books of chronicles so they claim that the actual mountain is the mountain Jerzeem not the current location of the Mosque.
As for your claim that blessed does not mean chosen , I have already addressed this and shown otherwise in the response which you said was unsatisfactory !!! (this shows me that you did not actually read my response )
AS for the only son again , the text said take your only son not your only chosen son !!!! the text is clear here .
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22: 2
This was before the test before god even revealed that his son was chosen so how could god say take your only chosen son !!!!! especially that Abraham thought at that time that he would be sacrificing his son !!! It does not make anysense : take your only chosen son to sacrifice as a sign of him being chosen !!!!
This interpritation is twisted in order to explain this clear contradiction
The quran never mentioned the name but the Hadeeth did , to negelect one and take the other is forbidden and unaccepted in the Quran itself
God said :
And what Allah restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns - it is for Allah and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and orphans and the [stranded] traveler - so that it will not be a perpetual distribution among the rich from among you. And whatever the Messenger has given you - take; and what he has forbidden you - refrain from. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.
Quran 59: 7
As for Isaiah 21 it concerns three prophecies:
1. The burdon of the desert of the sea
2. The burdon on Durah
3. The burdon on Arabia
These prophecies describe different events about the area , one is the fall of Babylon , second the coming of the messiah as shown by the riders of charriots of asses and the coming of the arabian prophet as the riders of Camels
What you mentioned about 21:7 is part of the burdon of the desert of the sea which describe the fall of babylon
To answer your final question :
This is an islamic - christian debate blogg , everybody presents and debates to prove a point. You and burninglight are debating to prove your point of christianity and we muslims are debating to prove our point , thats how debate bloggs work !!!! why do you think we are participating then !!!!
reminder
QuoteOriginally Posted by ;محمد سني 1989QuoteOriginally Posted by ;محمد سني 1989
Also
QuoteOriginally Posted by ; اسلامي عزي
Last edited by محمد سني 1989; 24-08-2014 at 06:07 AM.
That is right; I know the answer. but it only works for me; you need to find out for yourself, and I told you how to do it. This has been addressed. Stop trying to bait me into areas that I have not been designated by God to explain to anyone. Can we agree to disagree? Probably not with you, because you cannot even agree on what we agree on; namely that God is one without partners or associates.
peace
Sorry, but I really think I have given you answers both here and other threads where you have demanded them of me... And my friend.. You have NOT answered all my questions. You have been very selective with your answers. To be honest, I'm not prepared to play these games of yours.. It's bad enough being restricted to only three threads at a time for reasons I do not understand. That you continue to waste time going over the same points.. Even having been given answers (which I have done to the best of my ability) you are still prevaricating!! I will leave it to readers to make up their minds... I find my face is increasingly not bothered.QuoteActually the fact that you did not answer shows me and the readers that either you do not have an answer !!! that is the basic reality of the situation Pandora
Yet even though I answered all questions addressed to me I am now being accused of not answering in the same response where you yourself admitted to ignoring my responses . What an Irony ????!!!!
Based on their understanding, their understanding of the scriptures, which has to be based on something. Which I would take as an authority over your own...QuoteNone and I repeat none of these passages actually states the name moriah
All these mentions a place without the name and christians and Jews just assumed were Moriah based on their understanding
just read Genesis in its entirety and see what conclusion it leads you to... Or Kings..or Ezra or any of the others mentioned in the article. As to what the Samaritans may have believed then that's all fine.. As a Christian I have faith in the Bible and the accounts within. As it's primarily the Bible is what you have issue with surely that should be of primary consideration.QuoteSo the land was still mentioned once in genesis without location with a contradiction
unfortunatlly the samaritans differ on the location , since they do not believe in the first and second books of chronicles so they claim that the actual mountain is the mountain Jerzeem not the current location of the Mosque.
Yes your response on this matter I found unsatisfactory. Your pondering on what God should or should not have said is immaterial.. We have to deal with what we have when God was giving Abraham the sign of the covenant, namely circumcision, Abraham asked God that the covenant would be placed on Ishmael.QuoteAs for your claim that blessed does not mean chosen , I have already addressed this and shown otherwise in the response which you said was unsatisfactory !!! (this shows me that you did not actually read my response )
AS for the only son again , the text said take your only son not your only chosen son !!!! the text is clear here .
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22: 2
This was before the test before god even revealed that his son was chosen so how could god say take your only chosen son !!!!! especially that Abraham thought at that time that he would be sacrificing his son !!! It does not make anysense : take your only chosen son to sacrifice as a sign of him being chosen !!!!
This interpritation is twisted in order to explain this clear contradiction
Genesis 17:17-18 Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Shall a child be born to a man who is one hundred years old? And shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh, that Ishmael might live before You!”
Abraham knows the difficulty that it will be for he and Sarah to have a child... Their age was against them. This is what brought about his impatience in the first place, leading him to sleep with Hagar, which gave him Ishmael. Remember that God had told Abraham that he would be blessed and a father of many nations. Abraham got impatient, and took matters into his own hands.
The covenantal blessings are not to be upon Ishmael, but Isaac, whom Sarah will give birth to. When Abraham asks God to allow Ishmael to be the one in which those covenantal blessings flow, God rejects his request.
Genesis 17:19 Then God said: “No, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his descendants after him.”
God says no. He will not have His chosen people come from a union that was conceived in sin. He wants His line to come from those He has chosen. The people of God are always His work, not man’s work. Therefore He tells Abraham that it will be through Sarah that the covenantal blessings will come...It is through this line that the Messiah will come and redeem the chosen throughout the world. God will not have fallen man adding to His plan of redemption. Even though Abraham was a friend of God, it is God’s work that brings about this redemption and Isaac. God is showing that when it comes to His will and plan, He can work through a couple that are far past the age of childbearing.
Genesis 18:11-12 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
The text is telling us that Sarah no longer had the ability to have children. A miracle will have to be performed in order for her to have children. God will have to take something that is dead and make it alive. He will have to bring her womb to life again for her to have a child. God is the One that gave Sarah and Abraham the ability to have Isaac. Again, it is His plan that will be carried out in His way, not Abraham’s supplemental plan. God has a purpose and a plan for His chosen at all stages, and no, mankind cannot thwart that plan... No matter what you think to the contrary.
As for Ismael, he WILL be blessed. God tells Abraham this....
Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall beget twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.
He is blessed because he is Abraham’s son. God does that as a favor to Abraham. The man will grow and twelve princes will come from him, and he will be a great nation. In this instance, given God has already been clear in His rejection of Ishmael as the child of the covenantal promise ... A great nation.. Could imply greatness in numbers. You have to think what constitutes greatness and is it what you see happening in Islamic lands today..
Genesis 17:21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this set time next year.”
Also consider... that when God initially tells Abraham of the coming child, He says that Sarah will be the mother of kings and many nations.
Genesis 17:16 And I will bless her and also give you a son by her; then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be from her.”
Whereas Ismael will father twelve princes and one nation, Sarah will be the mother of many nations and many kings, showing covenantal supremacy in God’s election of them. So...While Ishmael is blessed, he is NOT of the chosen line of God. It is through the line of Isaac that the covenant blessings pass. This is what God’s word says and we need to rest upon it. The Samaritans were rejected because of their revisionist history, As I must reject your revisionist ideas of what you feel God should have said to make things clearer for yourself. It's clear... It's there... The fault is not with The Lord but within yourself because you don't choose to understand it. It has to come down to choice.. Because really it is not difficult to understand.
Also it shows us that those outside of covenantal blessings are not completely ignored by God. He may not extend His eternal blessings to them by bringing them into the covenant, but He still blesses them in life. Ishmael was blessed by God. He had his good things in life. That's not to be sniffed at.
Peace
Honestly it does not.. It is what it claims to be an account of the fall of Babylon. Jesus as Messiah has no connection with a chariot of asses.. Does it not say chariots of camels? Whereas Prophet Mohammed most certainly rode a camel is there evidence he ever rode a chariot pulled by camels? Or in this instance the use of metaphors may be acceptable to you.QuoteAs for Isaiah 21 it concerns three prophecies:
1. The burdon of the desert of the sea
2. The burdon on Durah
3. The burdon on Arabia
These prophecies describe different events about the area , one is the fall of Babylon , second the coming of the messiah as shown by the riders of charriots of asses and the coming of the arabian prophet as the riders of Camels
What you mentioned about 21:7 is part of the burdon of the desert of the sea which describe the fall of babylon
no need to be uppity... I was simply curious as to why you feel to seek to destroy another's faith. Personally, it's not important to me weather you accept or reject what I say.. More often rejection is the way I see.. :) I simply seek to dispel some misconceptions some muslims have about Christians and Christianity and the Bible. I've learnt quite a lot during my time here, and I have to say it was a cause of some personal sadness to be discriminated against with this new rule about limiting the number of posts we can contribute to. I don't see why it's necessary and it's certainly not conducive to fostering any mutual understanding. Still... As the saying goes your forum ..your rules.. I expect the reasons behind it are clear to muslims. Sad though .. Very sad.QuoteTo answer your final question :
This is an islamic - christian debate blogg , everybody presents and debates to prove a point. You and burninglight are debating to prove your point of christianity and we muslims are debating to prove our point , thats how debate bloggs work !!!! why do you think we are participating then !!!!
Peace unto you.
I really don't know what I can add here to what's been said already...God said to Moses in :QuoteFirst god blessed Abraham and told him he would be a great nation :
Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.
And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing
. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)
So Abraham's blessing and greatness comes from his decendents by blessing Abraham and blessing themselves (this is what muslims say five times a day during prayer : the prayer goes like this God bless Muhammed and his family as you have blessed Abraham and his family .....)
So a great nation blesses Abaraham , also they :
6 Observe them carefully, for thus will
you give evidence of your wisdom and intelligence to the nations
, who will hear of all these statutes and say,
'This great nation is truly a wise and intelligent people.'
7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?
8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today?”
Deutronomy 4: 6-8
So a great nation in the bible is one which worships god alone and has the law of god and glorifies Abraham and blesses him which applies to the arabs in the prophecy of genesis
Going to see how this applies to Ishmael from what you said :
"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)
Also :
Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).
It is not me who is nitpicking from the bible , you need to read the passage carefully and compare it together
The same phrase used by god to Abraham is used to Ishmael .
Exodus 3:6
6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
God did not mention Ishmael... Another reason to suppose that the blessing of Ishmael was not the same as the covenantal blessing of Isaac.
Quote
Concerning
the only son
Isaac or Ishmael i' invite you to read this :
Abraham: One God, Three Wives, Five Religions
Frances Worthington
I shall check it out. Do you think the opinion of Frances Worthington is greater than scripture?
again I'm not sure what it is you want me to address here... And you of course are entitled to your opinion as I am to disagree with it.Quote@
Pandora : are you the Burninglight's spokeswoman
????
about the Moriah ' s land the exact location is doubtful ---
unknown location
---
about "Temple Mount" ; sorry I do not believe in the existence of any temple in this blessed land ( Jerusalem )
Peace unto you
I have Already addressed all your questions
What something!!!! and what about the different understanding of this passage such as the understanding of the Samaritans !!! Is their understanding based on something!!!!QuoteOriginally Posted by ; pandora
This is speculation there is no proof here
I did so as the Samaritans who also belief in Genisis and the first five books which composes the Torah and still reach to the conclusion that Moriah is not in the temple mount rather it is mountain Jerzeem .QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
Not on what god said rather what is written in the textQuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
Second this was not the section I was talking about which you did not answer rather it was what you quoted in response number 38
However I will still address what you said hereQuoteOriginally Posted by ;محمد سني 1989
Yes we believe the miracle birth of Isaac but what has this to do with anything , god blessed both and brought both to this world to bring prophets from their dicendents and to bring their followers too from their linage. Ishmael is still Abraham's son and he was blessed. This still does not show any superiority remember Moses and Aron were not Joseph's decendents.QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
You have to read it within the whole context :QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
15Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. 16"I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her."17Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?"18And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!"19But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him 20"As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.…
The context of the passage clearly shows god telling Abraham I have heard you meaning heard your prayer and accepted , So god blessed him and made him a great nation and as I described a great nation before from the bible is one which has a law and worships god and blesses Abraham. This same term god used on Abraham before :
Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.Another discription falls into Ishmael too:
And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing
. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)
"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)This is within the same meaning as above God hears Abraham's request with Ishmael because he is simply the offspring of Abraham
Genesis 18:11-12 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?”
The text never said anything about a plan , this is your personal interpritation. As I have showed above God still according to the biblical writers still told that he has heard AbrahamQuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
However there is a very big important point which I need to clarify here :
The original King James bible DOES NOT have the word "No" in it the text is simply :
And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him (GENESIS 17:19)
What is really ironic too is that in the new international version you got the word "Yes" instead of "No"
Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.GENESIS 17:19
New International version
You could check for your self :
http://biblehub.com/genesis/17-19.htm
So your whole argument which was based on No cannot have an accurate basis
Continue the passage :QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
22When He finished talking with him, God went up from Abraham.23Then Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all the servants who were born in his house and all who were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's household, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the very same day, as God had said to him 24Now Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.26In the very same day Abraham was circumcised, and Ishmael his sonGenesis 17: 22-26
Genesis 17 which talks about the covenant of circumcission ends here
QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandoraAgain you are claming that my objection is to god rather it is to the writers of the bible. AS I said before we believe your scripture is corrupted so when I say that I am objecting somehow it is not on God , God forbid rather on the Jewish writers of the bible . such establishment of covenant only to Isaac seems very doubtfull based on the fact that Abraham also cried for his son Ishmael and that god responded by saying he has heard it and he has blessed his son Ishmael and he will have a great nation plus the idea and the contradiction still places itself when it is stated take your ONLY SON , this no matter what explanation is provided does not remove the contradiction for God did not say take your only son whom I have established the covenant with!!!QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
As for the number of nations well God said :
16And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
So god said kings of people , meaning who rule . This refers to actual kings ;
and she shall be a mother of nations; of the twelve tribes of Israel; of the two nations of Israel and Judah:
kings of people shall be of her; as David, Solomon, and others, and especially the King Messiah.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Great nation supresedes many nations since there were no mention of greatness one can say so !!!
peace
First the jews understood it much differently than you do :
the jewish book the secrets of Rabbi Shimon :
ince he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: "Was it not enough what the wicked kingdom of Edom has done to us,
but [we deserve] the kingdom of Ishmael too?
" At once Metatron, the foremost angel (sar ha-penim), answered him and said: "Do not fear, son of man,
for the Almighty only brings the kingdom of Ishmael
in order to deliver you from this wicked one (Edom).
He raises up over them (Ishmaelites) a prophet according to His will and He will conquer the land for them
, and they will come and restore it to greatness, and a great dread will come between them and the sons of Esau." Rabbi Simon answered him and said: "How [is it known] that they are our salvation?" He (Metatron) said to him:
"Did not the prophet Isaiah say that 'he saw a chariot with a pair of horsemen etc.'? Why did he put hte chariot of asses before the chariot of camels when he should rather have said 'a chariot of camels and [then] a chariot of asses,' because when he (Ishmael, i.e. the Arabs) goes forth [to war], he rides upon on a camel, and when the kingdom will arise by his hands he rides upon an ass? [
Given that he said the reverse of this], the chariot of asses, since he (the Messiah) rides upon an ass,
shows that they (the Ishmaelites, represented by the chariot of camels
) are a salvation for Israel, like the salvation of the rider on an ass (i.e. the Messiah)."
Source : (Simon ben Yohai, Secrets, 78-79 [pp. 309-310]
Rabbi Shimon bin Yohai is one of the fundimental and honered rabbis in the maintsream Jusaism (Not just The kabbala)
As for Chariots :
A chariot with a couple of horsemen; rather, a troop of horsemen riding two and two. This is exactly how a cavalry force was ordinarily represented by the Assyrians. Chariots are not intended either here or in ver. 9. They were not employed by the Persians until a late period of their history (see 'Ancient Monarchies,' vol. 4. pp. 113, 122). A chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; rather, men mounted on asses and on camels. It is well known that both animals were employed by the Persians in their expeditions to carry the baggage (Herod., 1:80; 4:129; Xen., 'Cyrop.,' 7:1, etc.). But neither animal was ever attached to a chariot.
Source : pulpit commentary
Also see:
And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen - This passage is very obscure from the ambiguity of the word רכב rekeb - 'chariot.' Gesenius contends that it should be rendered 'cavalry,' and that it refers to cavalry two abreast hastening to the destruction of the city. The word רכב rekeb denotes properly a chariot or wagon Judges 5:28; a collection of wagons 2 Chronicles 1:14; 2 Chronicles 8:6; 2 Chronicles 9:25; and sometimes refers to the "horses or men" attached to a chariot. 'David houghed all the chariots' 2 Samuel 8:4; that is, all the "horses" belonging to them. 'David killed of the Syrians seven hundred chariots' 2 Samuel 10:18; that is, all "the men" belonging to seven hundred chariots. According to the present Masoretic pointing, the word רכב rekeb does not mean, perhaps, anything else than a chariot strictly, but other forms of the word with the same letters denote "riders or cavalry." Thus, the word רכב rakâb denotes a horseman 2 Kings 9:17; a charioteer or driver of a chariot 1 Kings 22:34; Jeremiah 51:21. The verb רבב râbab means "to ride," and is usually applied to riding on the backs of horses or camels; and the sense here is, that the watchman saw "a riding," or persons riding two abreast; that is, "cavalry," or men borne on horses, and camels, and asses, and hastening to attack the city.
With a couple of horsemen - The word 'couple' (צמד tsemed) means properly a "yoke or pair;" and it means here that the cavalry was seen "in pairs, that is," two abreast.
A chariot of asses - Or rather, as above, "a riding" on donkeys - an approach of men in this manner to battle.Asses were formerly used in war where ............And a chariot of camels - A "riding" on camels. Camels also were used in war, perhaps usually to carry the baggage (see Diod. ii. 54; iii. 44; Livy, xxxvii. 40; Strabo, xvi. 3). They are used for all purposes of burden in the East, and particularly in Arabia.
Source : Barne's notes on the bible
So chariots simply means riders on camels and donkeys
QuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandoraQuoteOriginally Posted by ;pandora
I was very reluctant to answer or respond to this part simply because I felt it is not my place to answer , I usually tend to avoid responding to anything that has to do with the mediator of the forum. But since you are applying it to religous reasons I have to respond. Every single new member whether Muslim or Christian in this forum should exceed a certain amount of responses to have his post posted , this also applied to me , I have been here since February and I only got updated recently because I have exceeded a certain amount of responses.Again the rules apply to all members.
peace
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