Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

آخـــر الـــمـــشـــاركــــات


مـواقـع شـقــيـقـة
شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات شبكة المسيح كلمة الله
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع بشارة المسيح
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

يرجى عدم تناول موضوعات سياسية حتى لا تتعرض العضوية للحظر

 

       

         

 

    

 

 

    

 

Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

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  1. #1
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    MORE IMPORTANTLY, Ishmael was older than Isaac yet the text says your only son!!!!!

    This is a contradiction !!! which affirms that it was Ishmael but the Jews when writting corrupted the text !!!


    Brother اسلامي عزي already stated this and I already discussed this in an earlier discussion


    How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael is older and was still alive during that time !!???

    if I may could I just address this point, even though I feel this has been discussed an answered sufficiently there still seems some confusion. This has nothing to do with which son is the son of promise as decided by men... God has made this decision, the Bible clearly records it. It is not a contradiction, the Bible States Ishmael was the first born son... However he was NOT the first born of Abraham and Sarah, the first born son of Abraham and Sarah was Isaac... And it is this son that God decrees His covenant will be carried by. Isaac is the child of promise. There is no contradiction and no corruption of any texts on this matter. Firstly...

    Abraham


    First know by the name Abram, at the age of 75, he received his calling from God. God later changes his name to Abraham as God also changed the name of Abrahams wife Sarai to Sarah.


    "Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)


    An important point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew. Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's great-grandson. Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab".


    Isaac


    Isaac was the ONLY son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Esau and Jacob, who God renamed Israel. The patriarchs are often named together in both the Old Testament and New Testament.... when speaking to Moses, God said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6 RSV).


    Isaac's birth came about from a miracle - Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born, and Sarah, at age 90, had been unable to have children... God decreed..


    "Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).


    Fourteen years before, when Abraham was 86, Sarah (then called Sarai) had arranged for a child to be born to Abraham through her own Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael was born from the arrangement. The promise did not however go through Ishmael because the covenant had already been made with Abraham, with a yet-unborn Isaac the designated heir, before Ishmael was conceived or born. While God does not play favourites, He was also not bound to any other arrangements for children that Abraham and Sarah had taken upon themselves to bring about after the matter had been firmly decided by God.

    Ishmael


    Ishmael, meaning God hears, as we know was the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his wife Sarah. Through Sarah's lack of faith and her doubt of being able to bear a son in her advanced years she took it upon herself to ensure Abraham had a son by Hagar acting as a surrogate mother, even though God had specifically stated that a child (Isaac) would be born to Sarah in due time.


    Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel. He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born....


    "Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 16:11-12 RSV).


    Sarah, who had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 RSV)


    Abraham opposed Sarah's demand - despite Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    God did bless Ishmael and promised he would be a father of great nations.. However, that does not mean that any prophets were to come from his line. You are reading that into the text on the basis that Isaac was not an only son, thus ignoring Gods decree.. And wishful thinking that the blessing upon Ishmael is more than it was. When even the Quran does not name the child as Ishmael.

    Peace unto you.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    if I may could I just address this point, even though I feel this has been discussed an answered sufficiently there still seems some confusion. This has nothing to do with which son is the son of promise as decided by men... God has made this decision, the Bible clearly records it. It is not a contradiction, the Bible States Ishmael was the first born son... However he was NOT the first born of Abraham and Sarah, the first born son of Abraham and Sarah was Isaac... And it is this son that God decrees His covenant will be carried by. Isaac is the child of promise. There is no contradiction and no corruption of any texts on this matter. Firstly...

    Abraham


    First know by the name Abram, at the age of 75, he received his calling from God. God later changes his name to Abraham as God also changed the name of Abrahams wife Sarai to Sarah.


    "Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)


    An important point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew. Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's great-grandson. Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab".


    Isaac


    Isaac was the ONLY son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Esau and Jacob, who God renamed Israel. The patriarchs are often named together in both the Old Testament and New Testament.... when speaking to Moses, God said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6 RSV).


    Isaac's birth came about from a miracle - Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born, and Sarah, at age 90, had been unable to have children... God decreed..


    "Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).


    Fourteen years before, when Abraham was 86, Sarah (then called Sarai) had arranged for a child to be born to Abraham through her own Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael was born from the arrangement. The promise did not however go through Ishmael because the covenant had already been made with Abraham, with a yet-unborn Isaac the designated heir, before Ishmael was conceived or born. While God does not play favourites, He was also not bound to any other arrangements for children that Abraham and Sarah had taken upon themselves to bring about after the matter had been firmly decided by God.

    Ishmael


    Ishmael, meaning God hears, as we know was the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his wife Sarah. Through Sarah's lack of faith and her doubt of being able to bear a son in her advanced years she took it upon herself to ensure Abraham had a son by Hagar acting as a surrogate mother, even though God had specifically stated that a child (Isaac) would be born to Sarah in due time.


    Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel. He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born....


    "Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 16:11-12 RSV).


    Sarah, who had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 RSV)


    Abraham opposed Sarah's demand - despite Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    God did bless Ishmael and promised he would be a father of great nations.. However, that does not mean that any prophets were to come from his line. You are reading that into the text on the basis that Isaac was not an only son, thus ignoring Gods decree.. And wishful thinking that the blessing upon Ishmael is more than it was. When even the Quran does not name the child as Ishmael.

    Peace unto you.

    Yes this point has been addressed and you did not answer


    However in the points above you have answered your own question

    First god blessed Abraham and told him he would be a great nation :

    Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)

    So Abraham's blessing and greatness comes from his decendents by blessing Abraham and blessing themselves (this is what muslims say five times a day during prayer : the prayer goes like this God bless Muhammed and his family as you have blessed Abraham and his family .....)

    So a great nation blesses Abaraham , also they :

    6 Observe them carefully, for thus will
    you give evidence of your wisdom and intelligence to the nations
    , who will hear of all these statutes and say,
    'This great nation is truly a wise and intelligent people.'
    7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?
    8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today?
    Deutronomy 4: 6-8

    So a great nation in the bible is one which worships god alone and has the law of god and glorifies Abraham and blesses him which applies to the arabs in the prophecy of genesis



    Going to see how this applies to Ishmael from what you said :

    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    Also :

    Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).

    It is not me who is nitpicking from the bible , you need to read the passage carefully and compare it together

    The same phrase used by god to Abraham is used to Ishmael .

    Plus this does not actually answer what I said in my last response :

    MORE IMPORTANTLY, Ishmael was older than Isaac yet the text says your only son!!!!!

    This is a contradiction !!! which affirms that it was Ishmael but the Jews when writting corrupted the text !!!


    Brother اسلامي عزي already stated this and I already discussed this in an earlier discussion


    How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael is older and was still alive during that time !!???

    No matter what the text clearly stated your only son not your only son from Sarah!!!!!
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  3. #3
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    I cannot deny that Ishmael was blessed by God to be a mighty and strong nation
    i'm not asking about Ishmael but about arab -muslims !
    I 'll repeat the question :

    can you deny the fact that arab muslims - through Ishmael their ancestor - are blessed by YHWH ???

    I want an honest answer !

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    Genesis 22
    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of..
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???

    Note :

    I'm still waiting for your comments about the samaritan highest priest 's video !

    peace.


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلاً أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي


    سُبحان الذي يـُطعـِمُ ولا يُطعَم ،
    منّ علينا وهدانا ، و أعطانا و آوانا ،
    وكلّ بلاء حسن أبلانا ،
    الحمدُ لله حمداً حمداً ،
    الحمدُ لله حمداً يعدلُ حمدَ الملائكة المُسبّحين ، و الأنبياء و المُرسلين ،
    الحمدُ لله حمدًا كثيراً طيّبا مُطيّبا مُباركاً فيه ، كما يُحبّ ربّنا و يرضى ،
    اللهمّ لكَ الحمدُ في أرضك ، ولك الحمدُ فوق سماواتك ،
    لكَ الحمدُ حتّى ترضى ، ولكَ الحمدُ إذا رضيتَ ، ولكَ الحمدُ بعد الرضى ،
    اللهمّ لك الحمدُ حمداً كثيراً يملأ السماوات العلى ، يملأ الأرض و مابينهما ،
    تباركتَ ربّنا وتعالَيتَ .



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    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    i'm not asking about Ishmael but about arab -muslims !
    I 'll repeat the question :

    can you deny the fact that arab muslims - through Ishmael their ancestor - are blessed by YHWH ???

    I want an honest answer !.
    You did NOT need to ask me for an honest answer. I have been as honest on this forum as possible for me as one who must give account to my God.
    My answer is: I cannot deny Arab Muslims are blessed by my God and Creator as the offspring of Ishmael. They are a powerful nation and people blessed no doubt. I believe Islam has come out of that blessing from God, but my faith doesn't allow me to part take of that blessing for we are the offspring of Isaac, and we have our own blessings. Additionally, a religion comes out of our blessings of promise as well. From Judaism comes Christianity. Abraham wanted Ishmael to be the child of promise but God said: "No, in Isaac will your seed be named"
    The birth of Christianity appears to have happened as a result of Allah deceiving the Jews into believing that Jesus died on the cross. Therefore, and as a result, Christianity has become a thorn in the side of Islam that Islam has not been able to remove. Can you deny this?
    So, I look at Allah and in my mind's eye, I see him as not the same Allah of the Christian Arabs for obvious reasons such as the Christian God has His Word incarnate that He calls His "Beloved Son" and Islam's god has no son. Finally, both of our religions can't be right; they are mutually exclusive to say the least. Why would I want to follow a God that tricks people into believing something is true that isn't? How could I see him as the best of planners (Deceivers) when his plan since the time Christianity started to date has been a self defeating one???



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post

    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???

    Note :

    I'm still waiting for your comments about the samaritan highest priest 's video !

    peace.
    I don't know what to make of this video. If this video is from God then it says that Muhammad is a prophet for the Jews who gives them confirming signs. The video, however has an information hole in it that doesn't connect with me.

    Peace

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    I cannot deny Arab Muslims are blessed by my God and Creator as the offspring of Ishmael.
    In the result the prophet Mohammad as an Arab Muslim was blessed by YHWH .
    Yes or No ???

    Quote
    I don't know what to make of this video. If this video is from God then it says that Muhammad is a prophet for the Jews who gives them confirming signs. The video, however has an information hole in it that doesn't connect with me.
    Do you think the samaritan highest priest was a liar ???

    Quote
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???
    I'm still waiting for your answer !

    I ' ask the God of Abraham to guide us all to the right road .



    Amen .
    peace .


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلاً أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي


    سُبحان الذي يـُطعـِمُ ولا يُطعَم ،
    منّ علينا وهدانا ، و أعطانا و آوانا ،
    وكلّ بلاء حسن أبلانا ،
    الحمدُ لله حمداً حمداً ،
    الحمدُ لله حمداً يعدلُ حمدَ الملائكة المُسبّحين ، و الأنبياء و المُرسلين ،
    الحمدُ لله حمدًا كثيراً طيّبا مُطيّبا مُباركاً فيه ، كما يُحبّ ربّنا و يرضى ،
    اللهمّ لكَ الحمدُ في أرضك ، ولك الحمدُ فوق سماواتك ،
    لكَ الحمدُ حتّى ترضى ، ولكَ الحمدُ إذا رضيتَ ، ولكَ الحمدُ بعد الرضى ،
    اللهمّ لك الحمدُ حمداً كثيراً يملأ السماوات العلى ، يملأ الأرض و مابينهما ،
    تباركتَ ربّنا وتعالَيتَ .



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    In the result the prophet Mohammad as an Arab Muslim was blessed by YHWH .
    Yes or No ???
    if prophet Mohammed was indeed a descendant of Ishmael then as an Arab Muslim he would be under the blessing of YHWH.. As would any Arab Muslim or not. Burning light has already answered this is so.. Is it possible you did not see his post?? Just to be clear being blessed by YHWH is NOT the same as being under the covenant promise. So... Yes, to your question.

    Quote
    Do you think the samaritan highest priest was a liar ???
    no comment as I can't see any link to any video.

    Quote
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???
    Mount Moriah in Old City Jerusalem is the site of numerous biblical acts of faith. It is also one of the most valuable pieces of real estate and one of the most hotly contested pieces of real estate on earth. This is a profoundly sacred area to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Sitting atop Mount Moriah today is the Temple Mount, a 37-acre tract of land where the Jewish temple once stood. Several important Islamic holy sites are there now, including the Dome of the Rock – a Muslim shrine built thirteen hundred years ago – and the Al-Aqsa Mosque.


    Mount Moriah’s history begins in Genesis. In the twenty-second chapter, God commands Abraham, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you” (Genesis 22:2). The place God led Abraham was Mount Moriah. Abraham didn’t fully understand what God was asking him to do in light of God’s previous promise to establish an everlasting covenant with Isaac (Genesis 17:19); nonetheless, he trusted God and by faith offered Isaac as a sacrifice. Of course, God intervened and spared Isaac’s life by providing a ram instead. Abraham thereafter called this place “The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, ‘On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided’” (Genesis 22:14). Because of Abraham’s obedience on Mount Moriah, God told Abraham that his “descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed because you have obeyed me” (vv. 17, 18).


    About a thousand years later at this very location, King David bought the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite and built an altar to the Lord so that a “plague may be held back from the people”(2 Samuel 24:18, 21). After David’s death, his son King Solomon built a glorious temple on the same site. Solomon’s temple lasted for over four hundred years until it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar’s armies in 587/586 B.C.


    Seventy years later the temple was rebuilt on the same site by the Jews who returned to Jerusalem following their Babylon captivity. Around the first century, King Herod made a significant addition to this structure, which then became known as Herod’s Temple. It was this temple that Jesus cleansed (John 2:15).


    However, in A.D. 70, the Roman armies led by Titus, son of the Emperor Vespasian, once again destroyed the temple. All that remains of the Temple Mount of that era is a portion of a retaining wall known as the “Western Wall” or the “Wailing Wall.” It has been a destination for pilgrims and a site of prayer for Jews for many centuries.


    The God who first called Abraham to Mount Moriah still has plans for that place. The Bible indicates that a third temple will be built on or near the site of Solomon’s temple (Daniel 9:27). This would seem to present a problem given the political obstacles that stand in the way: the religious activities on the Temple Mount are currently controlled by the Supreme Muslim Council (the Waqf). Yet nothing can put a wrinkle in God’s sovereign plans. Thus, Muslim control of this area simply fulfills the prophecy of Luke 21:24 that “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”


    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/mount-Mo...#ixzz3B47utuan

    Quote
    I'm still waiting for your answer !

    I ' ask the God of Abraham to guide us all to the right road .

    Amen .
    peace .
    What do you see as the significance of Temple Mount being in the hands of muslims today?

    Peace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    if prophet Mohammed was indeed a descendant of Ishmael then as an Arab Muslim he would be under the blessing of YHWH.. As would any Arab Muslim or not. Burning light has already answered this is so.. Is it possible you did not see his post?? Just to be clear being blessed by YHWH is NOT the same as being under the covenant promise. So... Yes, to your question.



    no comment as I can't see any link to any video.



    Mount Moriah in Old City Jerusalem is the site of numerous biblical acts of faith. It is also one of the most valuable pieces of real estate and one of the most hotly contested pieces of real estate on earth. This is a profoundly sacred area to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Sitting atop Mount Moriah today is the Temple Mount, a 37-acre tract of land where the Jewish temple once stood. Several important Islamic holy sites are there now, including the Dome of the Rock – a Muslim shrine built thirteen hundred years ago – and the Al-Aqsa Mosque.


    Mount Moriah’s history begins in Genesis. In the twenty-second chapter, God commands Abraham, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you” (Genesis 22:2). The place God led Abraham was Mount Moriah. Abraham didn’t fully understand what God was asking him to do in light of God’s previous promise to establish an everlasting covenant with Isaac (Genesis 17:19); nonetheless, he trusted God and by faith offered Isaac as a sacrifice. Of course, God intervened and spared Isaac’s life by providing a ram instead. Abraham thereafter called this place “The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, ‘On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided’” (Genesis 22:14). Because of Abraham’s obedience on Mount Moriah, God told Abraham that his “descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed because you have obeyed me” (vv. 17, 18).


    About a thousand years later at this very location, King David bought the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite and built an altar to the Lord so that a “plague may be held back from the people”(2 Samuel 24:18, 21). After David’s death, his son King Solomon built a glorious temple on the same site. Solomon’s temple lasted for over four hundred years until it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar’s armies in 587/586 B.C.


    Seventy years later the temple was rebuilt on the same site by the Jews who returned to Jerusalem following their Babylon captivity. Around the first century, King Herod made a significant addition to this structure, which then became known as Herod’s Temple. It was this temple that Jesus cleansed (John 2:15).


    However, in A.D. 70, the Roman armies led by Titus, son of the Emperor Vespasian, once again destroyed the temple. All that remains of the Temple Mount of that era is a portion of a retaining wall known as the “Western Wall” or the “Wailing Wall.” It has been a destination for pilgrims and a site of prayer for Jews for many centuries.


    The God who first called Abraham to Mount Moriah still has plans for that place. The Bible indicates that a third temple will be built on or near the site of Solomon’s temple (Daniel 9:27). This would seem to present a problem given the political obstacles that stand in the way: the religious activities on the Temple Mount are currently controlled by the Supreme Muslim Council (the Waqf). Yet nothing can put a wrinkle in God’s sovereign plans. Thus, Muslim control of this area simply fulfills the prophecy of Luke 21:24 that “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”


    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/mount-Mo...#ixzz3B47utuan



    What do you see as the significance of Temple Mount being in the hands of muslims today?

    Peace.

    Your first statement about the blessings is answered in my last response

    As for mount Moraih Pandora , I am disapointed by your answer since none of it actually mentions a passage that states where mount Moriah is

    All of what you said is a history of Jerusalim and the mosque nothing more nothing less

    I thought while reading it I would see a passage that ultimately states that Mount Moriah is the temple mount , but no passage

    Just passages relating events to the temple mount without stating the name of the mountain as Moriah !!!???

    The only passage is 2 chronicles 3:1 it states :
    Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    However there is two problems with this text :

    1. It contradicts the fact that Ishmael was older than Isaac:
    Genesis 22

    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    we all know that Isaac at that time was younger than Ishmael , this itself puts doubt on the text in which Isaac was switched with Ishmael and probably moriah too

    2. This book of chronicles was written in a really late date about 500 BC , it is also not known who wrote it , tradition holds its Ezra peace be upon him but it is only a claim . Chronilcs retells all the stories of the bile from a late jewish prespective.

    I would also like to add where Ishmael lived according to the samaritan book Asatir (legends) of Moses Chapter VIII , Birth of Moses:

    1. And after the death of Abraham, Ishmael reigned twenty seven years; 2. And all the children of Nebaot ruled for one year in the lifetime of Ishmael; 3. And for thirty years after his death from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates; and they builtMecca.; 4. For thus it is said (in Genesis 25:16): 'As thou goest towards Ashur before all his brethren he lay

    As for what you said concerning the sentence which I coloured in red was already known for previous Jews:

    in the jewish book the secrets of Rabbi Shimon :

    ince he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: "Was it not enough what the wicked kingdom of Edom has done to us,
    but [we deserve] the kingdom of Ishmael too?
    " At once Metatron, the foremost angel (sar ha-penim), answered him and said: "Do not fear, son of man,
    for the Almighty only brings the kingdom of Ishmael
    in order to deliver you from this wicked one (Edom).
    He raises up over them (Ishmaelites) a prophet according to His will and He will conquer the land for them
    , and they will come and restore it to greatness, and a great dread will come between them and the sons of Esau." Rabbi Simon answered him and said: "How [is it known] that they are our salvation?" He (Metatron) said to him:
    "Did not the prophet Isaiah say that 'he saw a chariot with a pair of horsemen etc.'? Why did he put hte chariot of asses before the chariot of camels when he should rather have said 'a chariot of camels and [then] a chariot of asses,' because when he (Ishmael, i.e. the Arabs) goes forth [to war], he rides upon on a camel, and when the kingdom will arise by his hands he rides upon an ass? [
    Given that he said the reverse of this], the chariot of asses, since he (the Messiah) rides upon an ass,
    shows that they (the Ishmaelites, represented by the chariot of camels
    ) are a salvation for Israel, like the salvation of the rider on an ass (i.e. the Messiah)."

    Source : (Simon ben Yohai, Secrets, 78-79 [pp. 309-310])
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    In the result the prophet Mohammad as an Arab Muslim was blessed by YHWH .
    Yes or No ???



    Do you think the samaritan highest priest was a liar ???



    I'm still waiting for your answer !

    I ' ask the God of Abraham to guide us all to the right road .



    Amen .
    peace .
    Jazak Allah Khair brother
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    Jazak Allah Khair brother
    What does that mean?
    the post you responded to asks me was your prophet of Islam blessed? I thought I answered this. Again, Yes, if he comes from the line of Ishmael, but, IMHO, that blessing didn't mean prophet hood. Furthermore, what he did with that blessing is in question to Jews first, Christians next and all the non Muslim world.
    As for the Samaritan highest priest being a liar, I have no comment to this question, because I don't know enough about this subject or him, but I question anyone who states Islam's messenger was meant to be the universal prophet for the world for many reasons.
    peace

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    http://bibleapps.com/commentaries/isaiah/21-7.htm

    21:1-10 Babylon was a flat country, abundantly watered. The destruction of Babylon, so often prophesied of by Isaiah, was typical of the destruction of the great foe of the New Testament church, foretold in the Revelation. To the poor oppressed captives it would be welcome news; to the proud oppressors it would be grievous. Let this check vain mirth and sensual pleasures, that we know not in what heaviness the mirth may end. Here is the alarm given to Babylon, when forced by Cyrus. An ass and a camel seem to be the symbols of the Medes and Persians. Babylon's idols shall be so far from protecting her, that they shall be broken down. True believers are the corn of God's floor; hypocrites are but as chaff and straw, with which the wheat is now mixed, but from which it shall be separated. The corn of God's floor must expect to be threshed by afflictions and persecutions. God's Israel of old was afflicted. Even then God owns it is his still. In all events concerning the church, past, present, and to come, we must look to God, who has power to do any thing for his church, and grace to do every thing that is for her good.
    Barnes' Notes on the Bible
    And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen - This passage is very obscure from the ambiguity of the word rekeb - 'chariot.' Gesenius contends that it should be rendered 'cavalry,' and that it refers to cavalry two abreast hastening to the destruction of the city. The word rekeb denotes properly a chariot or wagon Judges 5:28; a collection of wagons 2 Chronicles 1:14; 2 Chronicles 8:6; 2 Chronicles 9:25; and sometimes refers to the "horses or men" attached to a chariot. 'David houghed all the chariots' 2 Samuel 8:4; that is, all the "horses" belonging to them. 'David killed of the Syrians seven hundred chariots' 2 Samuel 10:18; that is, all "the men" belonging to seven hundred chariots. According to the present Masoretic pointing, the word rekeb does not mean, perhaps, anything else than a chariot strictly, but other forms of the word with the same letters denote "riders or cavalry." Thus, the word rakab denotes a horseman 2 Kings 9:17; a charioteer or driver of a chariot 1 Kings 22:34; Jeremiah 51:21. The verb rabab means "to ride," and is usually applied to riding on the backs of horses or camels; and the sense here is, that the watchman saw "a riding," or persons riding two abreast; that is, "cavalry," or men borne on horses, and camels, and asses, and hastening to attack the city.
    With a couple of horsemen - The word 'couple' ( tsemed) means properly a "yoke or pair;" and it means here that the cavalry was seen "in pairs, that is," two abreast.

    A chariot of asses - Or rather, as above, "a riding" on donkeys - an approach of men in this manner to battle. Asses were formerly used in war where horses could not be procured. Thus Strabo (xv. 2, 14) says of the inhabitants of Caramania, 'Many use donkeys for war in the want of horses.' And Herodotus (iv. 129) says expressly that Darius Hystaspes employed donkeys in a battle with the Scythians.

    And a chariot of camels - A "riding" on camels. Camels also were used in war, perhaps usually to carry the baggage (see Diod. ii. 54; iii. 44; Livy, xxxvii. 40; Strabo, xvi. 3). They are used for all purposes of burden in the East, and particularly in Arabia.

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