Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?

**نصير الدين** · 09-06-2014, 10:37 PM

I can't believe we're actually having such a conversation !

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My questions were... (In case you're the one with the answers) who corrupted the scriptures? When did this happen? And why it was thought necessary to corrupt them at all?

It's amazing how every single one of you in every single language makes the same argument the same way . Anyway , I'm honestly not an expert in the field so I leave it to those who know better than me . I still believe though that the Bible is indeed corrupted . Why ? Because I believe in Quran which says so . Why ? That's currently unrelated to the subject but I am convinced with evidence after evidence that it is the word of Allah and therefore I believe what it says .

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None of the Suras above are an indictment on all, but "some". In fact.. the context seems to be dealing with those who live near Mohammad and who he came into contact with. So, their misinterpretation or reinterpretation of the scriptures caused them to create lies and make deceit for a price.. Maybe for their own agenda. This couldn't happen if they didn't have the uncorrupted text by which to misinterpret or reinterpret in the first place.. There is nothing to suppose that the original uncorrupted text is still in the hands of the Jews who valued and protected it as the word of God. Seeing as the words of God cannot be changed why would you make the charge against God that God in fact cannot protect His word and would allow it to be changed by His creation? If you cannot trust that God could keep His word safe in the Bible then how can you trust God will keep His word for the Quran. IMHO this does not support a charge of whole scale corruption. If Mohammed judged by the Torah to the Jews of his time.. Why would he have done this if he knew the Torah was corrupted. Because if one believes that just one small part is corrupted... And without definitive proof what exactly was changed then there is no option other than to discard the whole work. Without proof you cannot know what was changed by whom and for why.

Such statements are ridiculous it isn't funny anymore . If you don't see the crystal clear signs saying that the Bible is corrupted .... well , there is nothing I can really say to describe it .
Even if you misinterpret a sign and say it's not clear , a sign after another and narrations to the prophet don't leave any room for it . What makes me say it's ridiculous isn't that we're arguing if the Bible was corrupted or not , it's that you want us to go by the farce that Islam doesn't say it was ! How in the world can you claim this sign and the following narration don't say the people of the book - Jews and Christians - didn't corrupt their books ?!

2:79 So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."

And no , corrupting the books wasn't because Allah isn't able to protect them . It's because they were intrusted to its people and they were not up to it . As for Quran , Allah protects it himself and that's why it is a part of the doctrine to believe that Quran can never and at any circumantes be corrupted . That's how we believe in Islam . Discussing if it's true or not is a whole different topic .

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I don't believe your prophet Mohammed ever did believe in the wide scale biblical corruption that muslims today make such a big deal about.

Then with all honesty , keep that belief to yourself . Otherwise , you'll be arguing about a basic belief in Islam that every Muslim should know . And if you try to force your opinion on OUR scriptures and explain them in such acrobatic ways , that would be a complete joke .

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There are errors and contradictions in the Quran if it claims to follow from the previous scriptures.

For the gazillion time , the Injeel wich we believe in isn't the Bible you know . Discussing if this belief of ours is true or not is a completely different subject .

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Just for your information.. The Bible is not the true word of Allah it is the inspired word of YHWH.. God of the Bible and all the Prophets... And Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

....................... Wut ?

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Muhammad never said the Bible was corrupted;

This . is the MOST RIDICULOUS line I read this day ! Call me rude or whatever you want . When you think you can teach me my own belief and force your opinion about it while you know nothing except the slanders you are taught , it is a huge farce !

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The Quran could be speaking of Uthman corrupting the Quran after he destroyed the original Qurans.

I can say for sure that you have no damn idea what you're talking about . You don't have the slightest clure about how Muslims define true narrations from fabricated or weak ones , that , or either you see a true narration and make an acrobatic explanation of it to come out with a conclusion that doesn't even exist ! If you know Arabic , read the following and ponder about your ignorance of the subject !

http://antishubohat.wordpress.com/ta...7%D8%AD%D9%81/

http://www.hurras.org/vb/showthread.php?t=8542

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and I think Uthman distorted Muhammad's Quran

It isn't "Muhammad - peace upon him's - Quran" , it is the word of the almighty . And that belief of your is so ridiculous that it's sad .

I'm being rude and offensive here ? Well when you have a headache and someone thinks you should belief this and not belief this in the main pillars of belief of your religion , you are definitely to get frustrated !

**pandora** · 09-06-2014, 11:45 PM

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I'm being rude and offensive here ? Well when you have a headache and someone thinks you should belief this and not belief this in the main pillars of belief of your religion , you are definitely to get frustrated !

lol... Yes you are being rude.. :) but I'm not offended by your rudeness I have come to accept rudeness is sometimes a consequence of dialogue on this forum. Its of no matter.. If you do not wish to talk then the solution lies in your own hands... Don't enter into dialogue.

In my time here I've learnt quite a bit and have had some interesting dialogue with some really nice knowledgable, polite muslims.. I usually find if one has to resort to childish insults then there's nothing to be gained by either party. I wish you well.

May God bless you and guide you. Peace.

**نصير الدين** · 10-06-2014, 12:09 AM

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Oh people of the Quran, why do you confuse truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you have been told it many times. You know Jesus is the truth!!!

You're really giving me second hand embarrasment . So instead of admitting that you're wrong at making the absurd claim that Quran doesn't say the people of the book corrupted them , you resort to this ?

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This is not clear. Which people of the Scripture who exchanged what for a price? Who has written with their own hands and what did they write? This is not explicitly talking about anything.

If this isn't clear enough for you , go make medical contacts because times are more precious than wasting them arguing about such clear things . And if you think you can make your lousy escape with asking "How was it corrupted ?" then you are greatly mistaken . Proving how it was corrupted is another topic . The thing we're talking about here is that Quran - in spite of what you'd like to believe - does say the people of the book corrupted what they were entrusted with .

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This is not the Quran you quote here. What book has been distorted, how and why? How did they make money doing this? It just sounds like someone making this up so they could get you to turn from truth to error. Did you think of that?

These are the narrations to the companions of the prophet which they took from the prophet which he took from the almighty himself . This is basic Islamic knowledge you're lacking .

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You cannot prove the Quran hadn't been altered nor can you prove its perfectly preservation since when Uthman burned all your originals after Muhammad's death and recompiled them acting as Allah's editor and he was no prophet who relied on the help of text Hafsah's copy and then her copy was destroyed. It all sounds fishy to me.

I'll say it flat out . You're deluded . I'm telling you don't understand the truth about this mainstream slander of burning Quran and you ignore that and keep with your rant ?! Do you see now why I'm saying your posts are farces ?! And let me get this straight : I have to prove Quran wasn't altered and you don't need to prove it was ?! It sounds fishy to you ? Don't eat fish then because the smell is coming from you . I swear to the lord that if you try to start a discussion about that incident you'll reveal huge amounts of ignorance about anything in Islam .

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You are trying to elevate yourself here by making others look small, and that is not the way to do it.

Look who's talking ?! I'm trying to make others look small when I mention basic and minimum knowledge that they don't have ?!

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It seems like you have been pawned again.

It's ironic how this contradicts the beginning of your paragraph .

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BTW, why can I post directly ? Can you? If yes, why the unfair advantaged for you?

That's how it was with me as well at first with few posts . That's the rule .

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If you do not wish to talk then the solution lies in your own hands... Don't enter into dialogue.

If you expect me to sit back when I see such farces then you are seriously mistaken . You're trying to argue about A.B.C of Islam here ! It would be like letting someone say that snakes are mamals without saying the obvious fact that they aren't !

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In my time here I've learnt quite a bit and have had some interesting dialogue with some really nice knowledgable, polite muslims.. I usually find if one has to resort to childish insults then there's nothing to be gained by either party. I wish you well.

Call me childish or whatever you like . That's what I think of you both when you actually make such arguments . Again , you're trying to argue about basic Islamic belief that you seriously don't know anything about .

**Burninglight** · 10-06-2014, 04:07 AM

I know more about Islam than most Muslims. Regarding delayed posting, you said it was that way with you the first few posts, but I have done quite a bit more than a few posts. Is that called Muslim fairness?

You are saying I am deluded, because you are convinced you have the truth, but I am equally convinced that Jesus is the truth; He is the only truth. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.

You don't believe what Jesus said that is recorded in the Bible. You use the ridiculous excuse that the Bible is corrupted not seeming to realize or not wanting to that the Scripture that came before are from the God you claim as your God. God preserves all His words and messages. Only Muslims are not willing to believe it. Even Allah said his word is unalterable. The Bible says God word is established forever in heaven so anything that contradicts what came before should be held suspect, but Muslims put the cart before the horse; we don't do that, and you say we Christians are deluded. If the message from the Scripture that came before is corrupted than so is the Quran for saying God word is unalterable. Make up you mind. Is man's power to corrupt greater than god's power to preserve His word. Do you even know who is God's Word?

It is the god of Islam that calls himself the best of deceiver in the Arabic, but the English translation dishonestly translates him as best of planners. The fact is Allah does and did best what the unbelievers were doing according to the Quran. What were they doing? They were lying, cheating, scheming, plotting and deceiving; well Allah does those things best if you can understand context. Jesus calls Satan the father of lies; so, go figure, and at least try to understand why we true Christians might see things the way we do.
Peace be unto you

**فداء الرسول** · 10-06-2014, 12:04 PM

Judge Christianity by Christians?

Delayed deployment is not a hoax, is a system of law and forum

**pandora** · 10-06-2014, 01:14 PM

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Originally Posted by شمائل

Judge Christianity by Christians?

in all seriousness I do not believe you just said this! Should I then judge Islam by muslims? If that is the case just based on some of the behaviours of some muslims on this forum alone Islam would be found wanting.

Jesus did not bring a religion.. Jesus brought a way to salvation and a means to make oneself right before God. It is man who has labeled the followers of Jesus's teachings as Christians and it is society that has termed it as a religion. Jesus IS the only church a Christian needs.

A ~

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Delayed deployment is not a hoax, is a system of law and forum

B ~

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That's how it was with me as well at first with few posts . That's the rule .

A. ~ if you say so, however it does appear that Muslim members enjoy certain privileges in regards to posting on the forum than non muslims. Editing their own posts for one. I thought it was just a rule for me.. But as I see Burninglight also has the same issues it seems a system that is not quite as fair as it should be. It does seem strange to not allow direct posting.... Seeing as moderators have the right to edit or remove posts anyway.

B. ~ this is not the case.. I have been on this forum almost as long as yourself and have more posts than you.. So obviously the "rule" is not as you believe it to be.

The forum having rules is not an issue.. Every forum needs rules and guidelines for members to ensure smooth running and fairness for all. I am certainly not complaining or disagreeing with the need for rules.. Just if the rules discriminate against some members on the basis of their religious beliefs then.. It's not fair. Is this a representation of how muslims are supposed to deal with non muslims in everyday situations? A bit like the Dhimni status of old? :)

Peace to you.

**نصير الدين** · 10-06-2014, 01:44 PM

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I know more about Islam than most Muslims.

Seeing that you lack most minimum knowledge a Muslim should know , and the fact that every single arrogant person among Christians says this same line the same way , I'll take this as a joke .

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Regarding delayed posting, you said it was that way with you the first few posts, but I have done quite a bit more than a few posts. Is that called Muslim fairness?

If I recall correctly , I had to write 100 posts to be able to write directly . And you're now at 99 . And this isn't something to complain so much about . You get your posts shown .

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You are saying I am deluded, because you are convinced you have the truth, but I am equally convinced that Jesus is the truth; He is the only truth. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.

Indeed , each of us believes in something based on what he sees as evidence . And because two religions can't both be right , one must be wrong . And that's why debates are held among people of knowledge whom I am not of .

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You don't believe what Jesus said that is recorded in the Bible. You use the ridiculous excuse that the Bible is corrupted not seeming to realize or not wanting to that the Scripture that came before are from the God you claim as your God. God preserves all His words and messages. Only Muslims are not willing to believe it. Even Allah said his word is unalterable. The Bible says God word is established forever in heaven so anything that contradicts what came before should be held suspect, but Muslims put the cart before the horse; we don't do that, and you say we Christians are deluded. If the message from the Scripture that came before is corrupted than so is the Quran for saying God word is unalterable. Make up you mind. Is man's power to corrupt greater than god's power to preserve His word. Do you even know who is God's Word?

Have not I told you before that you have serious misconceptions about Islam ? Or can't you read properly ? The people of the book were entrusted to preceive their books and they failed the test . So when you try to make it look like we're saying Allah couldn't preceive his books you're on a completely different page .

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5:44Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

It's not that Allah couldn't preceive his words . It's that the people of the book failed the test and corrupted their own books .

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It is the god of Islam that calls himself the best of deceiver in the Arabic, but the English translation dishonestly translates him as best of planners. The fact is Allah does and did best what the unbelievers were doing according to the Quran. What were they doing? They were lying, cheating, scheming, plotting and deceiving; well Allah does those things best if you can understand context.

If you can't read Arabic then you have no idea what you're talking about . This is the sign in its original language :

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وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ ۚ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ

And this is it in a translation :

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8:30 And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners.

The word in question is "Makr"="مكر" . Your ignorance of Arabic - and listening to slanders you are fed with - makes you think that the word means "Deceiver" . While the best translation for the meaning is indeed "Planner" . Planning of people can be for good or bad purposes , but the planning of Allah is always for the good . An example is how you plan to corrupt the picture of Islam with lies like 9/11 - a huge farce indeed ! - still , Allah is better at planning and your schemes turned against you as more people are embracing Islam . That's what it means , not the false ideas you take for granted without even bothering to ask if true or not .

And don't start talking about charecteristics of God and his prophet . Because I swear there is nothing you falsely allegate to Islam that doesn't exist times worse in your Bible . That's something unrelated to the current topic but apparently it's in your DNA to spam slanders after slanders to flood the page as if THAT is a conversation . Our current topic is that you made the joke of "Islam doesn't say the Bible is corrupted" which is clearly , a joke . So are you convinced now or do you want to embarrass yourself more ?

**Burninglight** · 10-06-2014, 05:55 PM

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