Was Jesus God, a son of god, a man, a servant, or a prophet?

[هشيم]

Quote

Jesus forgave sins

If he can forgive sins, then why he was crucified instead of forgiving Adam for eating from the tree? Why he could not forgive him if he is capable of forgiving?
So he is not God neither His son.
I wonder?
If eating of Tree of Life is a greater sin than beating and humiliating God (and his son)? Which one really needs atonement? It seems we want another crucifixion.
Where is the critical thinking?

Quote

If it had been Gods will to make this fact freely known then it would have been. However, Jesus received worship and did not rebuke those who offered it, in fact the Angel Gabriel at the proclamation of His birth told he was to be worshipped

You just repeat what you are told at churches. What is your evidence for this ((If it had been Gods will to make this fact freely known then it would have been))?


Peace

[pandora]

Quote

If he can forgive sins, then why he was crucified instead of forgiving Adam for eating from the tree? Why he could not forgive him if he is capable of forgiving?
So he is not God neither His son.
I wonder?
If eating of Tree of Life is a greater sin than beating and humiliating God (and his son)? Which one really needs atonement? It seems we want another crucifixion.
Where is the critical thinking?

I'm thinking we may view sin differently, and due to this difference you will never understand the need for atonement, or why we can never achieve it by our own merits and why we need a saviour. Do you not believe that Adams sin was forgiven? God in His infinite mercy could choose to forgive Adam and Eve even though they never showed true repentance or took responsibility for their disobedience, Eve blamed the serpent, and Adam indirectly blamed God. The only one who was not forgiven by God was the serpent. However, as God is merciful, God is also just and we are told all sin comes with a price and that price must be paid. Forgiving the sin does not remove the consequence of that sin. For example a disobedient child when told not to touch the stove, touches it anyway and is burnt, you can comfort the child and forgive its disobedience yet the burn does not just go away, the consequence of the action remains. Just as the consequence of Adams disobedience to God allowing sin into mankind, we live with that consequence. Only God can make that right and restore us to our rightful place where God always intended us to be... The garden.. Or paradise.. Or heaven whatever works for you. The only thing that can hope to restore us to righteousness before God has to be a sinless being, just as the first Adam brought sin to mankind the last Adam .. Christ.. Removes it. Not here on earth but where it matters for all eternity, so we can obtain eternal life which was always Gods plan. That is why Jesus was born of a virgin, that is why there was never any fault in Him, and that is why He is sinless. When Jesus said He is the only way to God the Father he meant He is the only way. You accept it or reject it because it was a gift freely given to be freely accepted or rejected and no one is under any compulsion.

You look so lightly on the sin of eating the fruit of the forbidden tree!! Disobedience to God Himself, was there ever a greater sin.. :( for that one fall was the catalyst for the whole of mankind for once sin entered mankind we were fallen beings and would always fall short of the Glory of God. You are free to believe that Allah may or may not choose to forgive whom He wills, you are free to believe that if your good deeds out weigh your bad deeds you may be forgiven. But.. How do you know if your good deeds are enough? How do you quantify how many good deeds will be needed? You can accept that level of uncertainty... I prefer to accept the redemptive work of Jesus will grant me the grace to enable me to stand repentant before a Holy God and be judged.

We have no need of another crucifixion or indeed another saviour. Jesus completed Gods will it's a done deal... The result is eternal.

Quote

You just repeat what you are told at churches. What is your evidence for this ((If it had been Gods will to make this fact freely known then it would have been))?


Peace

I do not need to go to a church to listen to the words of men, however well meaning those words are, to understand what God requires of me. Being part of the living gospel brings with it that intrinsic understanding. Do you doubt that everything happens by Gods will?

Peace also to you

[هشيم]

It seems our posts are irrelevant to the thread topic. Anyway, what you wrote can be understood only through a Christian perspective, not broader than this limit. Still those conceptions are made up because we do not find Jesus anywhere in Bible mentioning Adam and the sin, we have plenty of crucifixions and disobedience to God, why Jesus' crucifixion makes all other crucifixions and sins insignificant? the Jews (or Romans) crucified him for different reasons from what Jesus died for, did Jesus say that he is going to die for "atonement" of the sin so that God can reconcile with mankind? those and many other questions rise and neither Bible nor Christian theologians have a clear and satisfactory answer. it is clear that those ideas and doctrines never mentioned in Bible but are mere man made and inserted into Christianity.
Still what you wrote can be understood if there were verses in Bible confirm it, or Jesus himself state it, but we do not have



Peace to you

[pandora]

Well of courses it is written from a Christian prospective, that's a given .. Moi being a Christian after all... So I guess it is fair to say that it would be easily understood from the same prospective. I do however take exception to your "man made" inference.. And yet it is your prerogative to freely hold such views and freely express them. Of course I see things differently.. Whereas Jesus never mentioned Adam and Eve in more than passing as first man and woman created. We are left with no doubt as to Jesus's mission. There are many references about sin it's importance and the task Jesus was sent to do on our behalf. In Matthew Jesus says he has come to do Gods will, by giving His life for ours. He also says His blood is shed for the remission of our sins, and by accepting this we become part of the new covenant. Jesus often quoted Isaiah.. pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities... The Jews say this refers to the nation of Israel yet when I read these words my heart and soul tells me they refer to Christ Jesus. Sometimes one needs to listen to ones heart and soul.

In Matthew 20:28 Jesus said, “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many”


Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Isaiah 53:4-12:


"Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.


For the transgression of my people he was stricken.... Though he had done no violence ... it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer ... the Lord makes his life a guilt offering.... He will bear their iniquities.... He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

There are many verses in the Bible that make this doctrine clear to me, sometimes we need to think beyond the words alone to their deeper meaning. I accept that as a Muslim who sees the Quran as the word of God verbatim it is likely you take words at face value, that is to say the words directly tell you what to understand. For me it is different, but I do not know I could explain how I understand my beliefs in a logical way that would make sense to you... As I know muslims set great store by logic. :) Jesus taught often in parables, these I love to read more than the historical accounts of the scripture because to reach an understanding one has to reach within oneself using ones heart and soul as well as ones mind to gain the meaning... Once gained its like a treasure, and the inner meaning of the words on the page light up your very soul and you carry that light within you, nothing can diminish it. People come to understanding in different ways as we are all different for some we need direct words, some even need scientific proofs of Gods existence before they can deign to believe for others it seems a natural process. Ultimately I believe God reveals His message to us all in ways that we can best understand.

Peace on Gods blessings upon you.