الرد على شبهة اقتباس قصة توبة ادم عليه الصلاة و السلام

[محمد سني 1989]

رابعا : التلمود :

النص المدعى للاقتباس :
نقرا من تلمود Eruvin 18b:
The Gemara raises an objection from a baraita: Rabbi Meir would say: Adam the first man was very pious. When he saw that death was imposed as a punishment because of him, he observed a fast for a hundred thirty years, and he separated from his wife for a hundred thirty years, and wore belts [zarzei] of fig leaves on his body as his only garment for a hundred thirty years.
https://www.sefaria.org/Eruvin.18b.1...h=all&lang2=en

و نقرا من تلمود Avoda Zarah 8a:
With regard to the dates of these festivals, the Sages taught: When Adam the first man saw that the day was progressively diminishing, as the days become shorter from the autumnal equinox until the winter solstice, he did not yet know that this is a normal phenomenon, and therefore he said: Woe is me; perhaps because I sinned the world is becoming dark around me and will ultimately return to the primordial state of chaos and disorder. And this is the death that was sentenced upon me from Heaven, as it is written: “And to dust shall you return” (Genesis 3:19). He arose and spent eight days in fasting and in prayer.
https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah...h=all&lang2=en

و للرد نقول :

اولا : ان دعوى الاقتباس هنا قائمة على اساس باطل الا و هي دعوى ان التلمود كله باطل و مجرد عمل متاخر يحتوي على الخرافات و الحقيقة هي ان التلمود و ان بدا تدوينه في القرن الثاني الميلادي الا انه تجميع لتراث شفهي يرجع بعضه الى زمن السبي او حتى ما قبل السبي بقول النقاد
و تتضح اهميته الجلية عند اليهود في اطلاقهم عليه تسمية " التوراة الشفهية" فالتلمود عندهم يعتبر اهم المصادر بعد التناخ (العهد القديم) حيث يضم المشناة و الهاجاداه و يعتبر عندهم بقية علوم الانبياء التي لم يتم تدوينها في اسفار العهد القديم و تم تناقلها شفهيا .
بمعنى اخر يمكننا ان نقول ان التلمود يمثل التراث الشفهي اليهودي الممتد من فترة السبي و ما قبله الى قرون تالية .
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA:
As early as the third century Joshua ben Levi interpreted Deut. ix. 10 to mean that the entire Law, including Miḳra, Mishnah, Talmud, and Haggadah, had been revealed to Moses on Sinai (Yer. Pes. 17a, line 59; Meg. 74d, 25), while in Gen. R. lxvi. 3 the blessings invoked in Gen. xxvii. 28 are explained as "Miḳra, Mishnah, Talmud, and Haggadah." The Palestinian haggadist Isaac divided these four branches into two groups: (1) the Miḳra and the Haggadah, dealing with subjects of general interest; and (2) the Mishnah and the Talmud, "which can not hold the attention of those who hear them" (Pesiḳ. 101b; see Bacher, "Ag. Pal. Amor." ii. 211)
....
The history of the origin of the Talmud is the same as that of the Mishnah—a tradition, transmitted orally for centuries, was finally cast into definite literary form, although from the moment in which the Talmud became the chief subject of study in the academies it had a double existence, and was accordingly, in its final stage, redacted in two different forms. The Mishnah of Judah I. was adopted simultaneously in Babylon and Palestine as the halakic collection par excellence; and at the same time the development of the Talmud was begun both at Sepphoris, where the Mishnah was redacted, and at Nehardea and Sura, where Judah's pupils Samuel and Rab engaged in their epoch-making work. The academies of Babylon and of Palestine alike regarded the study of the Mishnah and its interpretation as their chief task. The Amoraim, as the directors and members of these academies were called ( see Amora), became the originators of the Talmud; and its final redaction marked the end of the amoraic times in the same way that the period of the Tannaim was concluded by the compilation of the Mishnah of Judah I. Like the Mishnah, the Talmud was not the work of one author or of several authors, but was the result of the collective labors of many successive generations, whose toil finally resulted in a book unique in its mode of development.
......
After the completion of the Talmud as a work of literature, it exercised a twofold influence as a historical factor in the history of Judaism and its followers, not only in regard to the guidance and formulation of religious life and thought, but also with respect to the awakening and development of intellectual activity. As a document of religion the Talmud acquired that authority which was due to it as the written embodiment of the ancient tradition, and it fulfilled the task which the men of the Great Assembly set for the representatives of the tradition when they said, "Make a hedge for the Torah" (Ab. i. 2). Those who professed Judaism felt no doubt that the Talmud was equal to the Bible as a source of instruction and decision in problems of religion, and every effort to set forth religious teachings and duties was based on it; so that even the great systematic treatise of Maimonides, which was intended to supersede the Talmud, only led to a more thorough study of it. In like manner
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud

ثانيا : الجزم بالاقتباس باطل لان تدوين التلمود لم يتم على مرحلة واحدة قبل الاسلام بل امتد تدوينه لقرون طويلة على مدى اجيال اشرف على جمعه عدد من الكتاب و تعرض لبعض التنقيحات على مدى قرون :
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
The date at which the Talmud was committed to writing is purely conjectural. The work itself contains neither statements nor allusions to show that any complete or partial copy of the work redacted and completed by Ashi and Rabina had been made in their days; and the same lack of information characterizes both Yerushalmi and the Mishnah (the basis of both the Talmudim), as well as the other works of the tannaitic period. There are, however, allusions, although they are only sporadic, which show that the Halakah and the Haggadah were committed to writing; for copies were described as being in the possession of individual scholars, who were occasionally criticized for owning them. This censure was based on an interdiction issued in the third century, which forbade any one to commit the teachings of tradition to writing or to use a manuscript of such a character in lecturing (see Giṭ. 60a; Tem. 14b).
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud

و هذا يعني ان جمع التلمود في كتاب واحد بدا مع الحبر اشي في القرن الرابع ثم الحبر رابي في بداية القرن الخامس الميلادي
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
ASHI:
By: Marcus Jastrow, Wilhelm Bacher
A celebrated Babylonian amora; born 352; died 427; reestablished the academy at Sura, and was the first editor of the Babylonian Talmud. According to a tradition preserved in the academies (Ḳid. 72b), Ashi was born in the same year that Raba, the great teacher of MaḦuza, died, and he was the first teacher of any importance in the Babylonian colleges after Raba's death.
When Ashi undertook the final redaction of the Talmud he evidently had at his disposal notes of this kind, although Brüll (l.c. p. 18) is probably correct in ascribing to Rabina the first complete written copy of the Talmud; Rabina had as collaborators many of the Saboraim, to whom an ancient and incontrovertible tradition assigns numerous additions to the Talmudic text.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1945-ashi

و نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA:
RABINA I.:
By: Wilhelm Bacher, Jacob Zallel Lauterbach
Babylonian amora of the fifth generation; died about 420. He was a pupil of Raba b. Joseph b. Ḥama, and his extreme youthfulness at that time is shown by the fact that his teacher designated him and Ḥama b. Bisa as "dardeḳi" (children; B. B. 16b).....
When R. Ashi became director of the Academy of Sura (or Matah Meḥasya), Rabina became a student there, although he was at least as old as Ashi—perhaps even a few years older; however, he was rather the associate of Ashi ("talmid ḥaber") than his pupil ('Er. 63a). Next to Ashi, Rabina had the greatest share in the redaction of the Talmud undertaken by Ashi and his colleagues. Rabina died seven years before Ashi.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...12505-rabina-i

الا ان ما كتبوه تمت الاضافة اليه و التعديل عليه اكثر من مرة فالحبر رابينا اضاف و نقح بعضا مما كتبه الحبر اشي ثم مع توالي الاجيال جاءت تعديلات و اضافات اكثر
نقرا في الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
The academies of Babylon and of Palestine alike regarded the study of the Mishnah and its interpretation as their chief task. The Amoraim, as the directors and members of these academies were called ( see Amora), became the originators of the Talmud; and its final redaction marked the end of the amoraic times in the same way that the period of the Tannaim was concluded by the compilation of the Mishnah of Judah I. Like the Mishnah, the Talmud was not the work of one author or of several authors, but was the result of the collective labors of many successive generations, whose toil finally resulted in a book unique in its mode of development.
......
. When Ashi undertook the final redaction of the Talmud he evidently had at his disposal notes of this kind, although Brüll (l.c. p. 18) is probably correct in ascribing to Rabina the first complete written copy of the Talmud; Rabina had as collaborators many of the Saboraim, to whom an ancient and incontrovertible tradition assigns numerous additions to the Talmudic text.
No Formal Ratification.
When Rabina died a written text of the Talmud was already in existence, the material contributed by the Saboraim being merely additions; although in thus extending the text they simply continued what had been done since the first redaction of the Talmud by Ashi. The Saboraim, however, confined themselves to additions of a certain form which made no change whatsoever in the text as determined by them under the direction of Rabina (on these saboraic additions as well as on other accretions in Babli, see the statements by Brüll, l.c. pp. 69-86). Yet there is no allusion whatever to a formal sanction of the written text of the Talmud; for neither did such a ratification take place nor was a formal one at all necessary. The Babylonian academies, which produced the text in the course of 300 years, remained its guardians when it was reduced to writing; and it became authoritative in virtue of its acceptance by the successors of the Amoraim, as the Mishnah had been sanctioned by the latter and was made the chief subject of study, thus becoming a basis for halakic decisions. The traditions, however, underwent no further development; for the "horayot," or the independent exegesis of the Mishnah and the halakic decisions based on this exegesis, ceased with Ashi and Rabina, and thus with the completion of the Talmud, as is stated in the canon incorporated in the Talmud itself (B. M. 86a). The Mishnah, the basal work of halakic tradition, thenceforth shared its authority with the Talmud.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud

وقد اختلف في متى اخذ التلمود شكله النهائي او بالاحرى متى تم الانتهاء من تدوين التلمود فبينما بعض الباحثين يرى ان ذلك تم في 500 ميلادية ، يرى الاخرون ان التاريخ الارجح لذلك هو في 700 ميلادية
نقرا من the cambridge companion to the talmud and rabbinic literature الصفحة 59 :



http://aveinu.homestead.com/The_Camb...literature.pdf

ثالثا :الجزم بالاقتباس باطل هنا نظرا لعدم توفر اي مخطوطة للتلمود اليوم يعود تاريخها لما قبل الاسلام .
نقرا في الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
Earliest Manuscript of the Babli.
In the editions the Babylonian Talmud is so arranged that each paragraph of the Mishnah is followed by the portion of the Talmud which forms the commentary on it; the portions are frequently divided into sections, rubricked by the successive sentences of the mishnaic paragraph on which they are based, although an entire paragraph occasionally serves as a single text. Thus Babli on Ket. ii. 1 (16a-18b) is divided into six sections; but there is no division into sections for ii. 2 (18b-20b), ii. 3 (20b-22a), ii. 5 (23b), and ii. 9 (27b-28a). There are three sections for ii. 4 (23a); two for ii. 6 (23b-26a), ii. 7 (26b-27a), and ii. 8 (27a, b); and eight for ii. 10 (28a, b). In the Munich codex, which is based on a manuscript of the middle of the ninth century (see Lewy in "Breslauer Jahresbericht," 1905, p. 28), the text of the entire chapter of the Mishnah is written in large characters on the inner portion of the page, separated from the Talmudic text, which is in a different script. In the fragments in the Bodleian Library, Oxford, written in 1123 and containing a portion of the treatise Keritot (see "J. Q. R." ix. 145), each chapter is headed by the entire mishnaic text on which it is based
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud

فاقدم مخطوطة للتلمود عندنا هي مخطوطة ميونخ و التي هي في الاصل نسخت من مخطوطة اخرى في منتصف القرن التاسع
وقد تم نسخ مخطوطة ميونخ في القرن الرابع عشر الميلادي
نقرا من FREDBERG JEWISH MANUSCRIPT SOCIETY:
Between the years 1342 and 1343 Shlomo ben Shimshon copied by hand the complete Babylonian Talmud in one volume containing 577 pages. Thetype of script Shlomo ben Shimshon used was not the elegant square script commonly used for writing canonical treatises, but a middling script—that enabled a denser and more massive script and with which the copyist was able to include all 37 tractates of the Talmud in addition to the Mishna in a single volume. Apparently, Shlomo ben Shimshon’s achievement is unprecedented—not only for being the only volume of the Babylonian Talmud preserved in manuscript, but primarily for being the only one created from the outset as a single volume. Over the generations, the manuscript made its way across Europe, passing among various owners who left their signatures in the body of the manuscript. We do not know the name of its original owner since his name was erased by one of the manuscript’s later owners. Various hypotheses have been raised about its whereabouts in the intervening centuries, but what is certain is that some time during the nineteenth century this volume, along and other religious manuscripts, were collected from a German church and placed in the Munich State Library, hence its name—The Munich Manuscript.
http://web.nli.org.il/sites/nlis/en/...munich_95.aspx

رابعا : دعوى الاقتباس من يهود الجزيرة العربية مردودة هنا نظرا لاختلاف البيئة اليهودية في الجزيرة العربية عن تلك الموجودة خارج الجزيرة العربية من جهة الثقافة الدينية و الاجتماعية
فقد ذكر بعض النقاد ان يهود الجزيرة العربية تميزوا بعدة امور تفصلهم عن يهود الشام و العراق و مصر :

اولا : الانعزالية الاجتماعية و البعد الجغرافي عن بقية يهود العالم مما جعل يهود الجزيرة العربية شبه منقطعين عن بقية يهود العالم و لا يربطهم الا مسمى الديانة و رابطة الدم
ثانيا : ضحالة العلم الديني لدى يهود الجزيرة العربية مقارنة ببقية يهود العالم .
و مما يدل على هذا ما نقرؤه في كتاب تاريخ اليهود في بلاد العرب لاسرائيل ولفنسون الصفحة 11 -12:





file:///Users/MacbookPro/Downloads/مكتبة نور - تاريخ اليهود في بلاد العرب في الجاهلية وصدر الإسلام.pdf

ويؤيد هذا ما تقوله الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA عن احبار يهود المدينة (الذي في نظرهم كانوا مصدرا من مصادر القران حسب ادعائهم و حاش لله )
he connected his teaching with that of the Holy Scriptures of the Jews and Christians, of whose contents, however, he had in many particulars only a very imperfect knowledge—his teachers having been monks or half-educated Jews—and this knowledge he often repeated in a confused and perverted fashion.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8263-islam

ثالثا : ذكر ان يهود الجزيرة العربية من ضحالة علمهم في نظر بقية اليهود لم يكونوا ينفذوا وصايا التلمود بل ان التلمود لم يكن مصدرا مهما لهم
نقرا من كتاب تاريخ اليهود في بلاد العرب لاسرائيل ولفنسون الصفحة 13



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