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Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
First the jews understood it much differently than you do :

the jewish book the secrets of Rabbi Shimon :

ince he saw the kingdom of Ishmael that was coming, he began to say: "Was it not enough what the wicked kingdom of Edom has done to us,
but [we deserve] the kingdom of Ishmael too?
" At once Metatron, the foremost angel (sar ha-penim), answered him and said: "Do not fear, son of man,
for the Almighty only brings the kingdom of Ishmael
in order to deliver you from this wicked one (Edom).
He raises up over them (Ishmaelites) a prophet according to His will and He will conquer the land for them
, and they will come and restore it to greatness, and a great dread will come between them and the sons of Esau." Rabbi Simon answered him and said: "How [is it known] that they are our salvation?" He (Metatron) said to him:
"Did not the prophet Isaiah say that 'he saw a chariot with a pair of horsemen etc.'? Why did he put hte chariot of asses before the chariot of camels when he should rather have said 'a chariot of camels and [then] a chariot of asses,' because when he (Ishmael, i.e. the Arabs) goes forth [to war], he rides upon on a camel, and when the kingdom will arise by his hands he rides upon an ass? [
Given that he said the reverse of this], the chariot of asses, since he (the Messiah) rides upon an ass,
shows that they (the Ishmaelites, represented by the chariot of camels
[COLOR=#001320][RIGHT]) are a salvation for Israel, like the salvation of the rider on an ass (i.e. the Messiah)."

Source : (Simon ben Yohai, Secrets, 78-79 [pp. 309-310]

Rabbi Shimon bin Yohai is one of the fundimental and honered rabbis in the maintsream Jusaism (Not just The kabbala)

As for Chariots :

A chariot with a couple of horsemen; rather, a troop of horsemen riding two and two. This is exactly how a cavalry force was ordinarily represented by the Assyrians. Chariots are not intended either here or in ver. 9. They were not employed by the Persians until a late period of their history (see 'Ancient Monarchies,' vol. 4. pp. 113, 122). A chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; rather, men mounted on asses and on camels. It is well known that both animals were employed by the Persians in their expeditions to carry the baggage (Herod., 1:80; 4:129; Xen., 'Cyrop.,' 7:1, etc.). But neither animal was ever attached to a chariot.

Source : pulpit commentary

Also see:

And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen - This passage is very obscure from the ambiguity of the word rekeb - 'chariot.' Gesenius contends that it should be rendered 'cavalry,' and that it refers to cavalry two abreast hastening to the destruction of the city. The word rekeb denotes properly a chariot or wagon Judges 5:28; a collection of wagons 2 Chronicles 1:14; 2 Chronicles 8:6; 2 Chronicles 9:25; and sometimes refers to the "horses or men" attached to a chariot. 'David houghed all the chariots' 2 Samuel 8:4; that is, all the "horses" belonging to them. 'David killed of the Syrians seven hundred chariots' 2 Samuel 10:18; that is, all "the men" belonging to seven hundred chariots. According to the present Masoretic pointing, the word rekeb does not mean, perhaps, anything else than a chariot strictly, but other forms of the word with the same letters denote "riders or cavalry." Thus, the word rakâb denotes a horseman 2 Kings 9:17; a charioteer or driver of a chariot 1 Kings 22:34; Jeremiah 51:21. The verb râbab means "to ride," and is usually applied to riding on the backs of horses or camels; and the sense here is, that the watchman saw "a riding," or persons riding two abreast; that is, "cavalry," or men borne on horses, and camels, and asses, and hastening to attack the city.
With a couple of horsemen - The word 'couple' ( tsemed) means properly a "yoke or pair;" and it means here that the cavalry was seen "in pairs, that is," two abreast.
A chariot of asses - Or rather, as above, "a riding" on donkeys - an approach of men in this manner to battle.Asses were formerly used in war where ............[FONT=Trebuchet]And a chariot of camels - A "riding" on camels. Camels also were used in war, perhaps usually to carry the baggage (see Diod. ii. 54; iii. 44; Livy, xxxvii. 40; Strabo, xvi. 3). They are used for all purposes of burden in the East, and particularly in Arabia.

Source : Barne's notes on the bible

So chariots simply means riders on camels and donkeys




I was very reluctant to answer or respond to this part simply because I felt it is not my place to answer , I usually tend to avoid responding to anything that has to do with the mediator of the forum. But since you are applying it to religous reasons I have to respond. Every single new member whether Muslim or Christian in this forum should exceed a certain amount of responses to have his post posted , this also applied to me , I have been here since February and I only got updated recently because I have exceeded a certain amount of responses.Again the rules apply to all members.


peace
Quote
Quote Originally Posted by huria View Post

I just want to add regarding the forums rules, there are limits when you start but the limit of the posts, I am sure because you two are spamming the whole forum, it is nothing to do with you been Christians, because you are implying that, and playing the victims here.

It is forum etiquette that people post reasonable amount, and do not spam the whole place, either religious or not, I use to be in a forum ( not faith based ) and new members who do that get banned., because you are not giving the chance to others to respond.

I am normal member here now after been limited to posts etc but I don’t go spamming the whole forum, if you look at the sticky threads all of them, has burninglight name last lol, I guess you guys forced the management to implement the 3 threads rule, so as my brother moderator said Stop complaining!
Huria, dear... Where have I spammed posts? I am not a new member I have been here two years and still not allowed to even edit my posts for typos or errors? Is one not allowed to complain of a perceived injustice? I accept you make up the rules .. Not you personally.. I talk in general term..I also accept rules are a necessity. However, I think they should be fair and without bias. The latest rules does not seem to be either. It has taken some of the pleasure out of dialogue with members here... And I have had some interesting debates with some very nice muslims. It's just a bit sad to see that go.

Peace.