Without Muslims ... !!??

[pandora]

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the God's name - ALLAH - was known before Islam !
the name of the prophet's father was Abdu-Allah !
maybe you think the message of Islam was only for Arabs !

Best not go there I feel. I know YHWH was never referred to as Allah by any of the biblical prophets. I have no issue at all with the word Allah used by Arabic Christians I know their prayers are directed to YHWH.

Yes, I rather do think that Islam was first and foremost for the Arabs.. Certainly the pagans of Arabia.. Why else choose a prophet from Arabia. The only prophet ever to come from the Arabs.

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The christianity is in the last breath !
this is a fact and not a dream ! the evidences are in front of you !
maybe one day we will hear the Adan over the Vatican 's walls !

You believe that if you wish. Truth is not dependant on numbers. As long as my right to worship God as a Christian was not hindered by any Adan anywhere then it would not bother me any. However, if you feel that world dominance of Islam is of greater importance of the right of others to worship God how they choose to in freedom... Then I see that as a huge cause for concern. Quite frankly I can't see the problem with us all worshipping side by side, Church, Mosque, Synagogue whatever.. It works well enough in countries in the "West". The biggest enemy I see to Christianity is secularism as this could also be the same for Islam.. Maybe we should see this as a common foe.

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this is not a "self applauses" !
I think i 'have explained it to you before .
Please don't dictate to me what i must do and how i'll write my posts !

peace with you .

Im not dictating to you!!!! Heaven forbid. It was a polite request... And we all know requests do not have to be honoured.... And can be politely declined. Feel free to applause away.. Just to say I prefer the little guy in the party hat.. It doesn't take up as much room in a post.. Which for me is a consideration as I don't use a PC.

Peace unto you.

[محمد سني 1989]

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Best not go there I feel. I know YHWH was never referred to as Allah by any of the biblical prophets. I have no issue at all with the word Allah used by Arabic Christians I know their prayers are directed to YHWH.

Yes, I rather do think that Islam was first and foremost for the Arabs.. Certainly the pagans of Arabia.. Why else choose a prophet from Arabia. The only prophet ever to come from the Arabs.


Peace unto you.

Pandora , your claim that islam was for arabs is wrong and contradicts what the quran , hadeeth and history says :
And We have not sent you except comprehensively to mankind as a bringer of good tidings and a warner. But most of the people do not know.

Quran 34:28

Also the prophet sent emmisries to preach for Islam to the byzantine empire , persian empire and ethiopia

Not to metion the non arab muslims during the time of the prophet peace and blessings be upon him like Salman the persian , bilal the ethiopian, and many others

peace

[Burninglight]

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Pandora , your claim that islam was for arabs is wrong and contradicts what the quran , hadeeth and history says :
And We have not sent you except comprehensively to mankind as a bringer of good tidings and a warner. But most of the people do not know.

Quran 34:28

Also the prophet sent emmisries to preach for Islam to the byzantine empire , persian empire and ethiopia

Not to metion the non arab muslims during the time of the prophet peace and blessings be upon him like Salman the persian , bilal the ethiopian, and many others

peace

But we say that it is an Arabic religion, because we don't believe the Quran is from our Creator. We see it as totally contrived and something that has imperfectly borrowed from the Bible. It brings nothing new to the Jew or Christians. We believe God is one with no partners or associates and in the virgin birth of Jesus; we believe there is a hereafter of eternal life and eternal damnation. We don't believe we have to confess any messenger's name with the one and only true God. But Muslims must. We see that as a stranger association of idolatry. So, we must stick to the Scripture that has been revealed to us as even you Quran says that we can do no other!!!

[محمد سني 1989]

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But we say that it is an Arabic religion, because we don't believe the Quran is from our Creator. We see it as totally contrived and something that has imperfectly borrowed from the Bible. It brings nothing new to the Jew or Christians. We believe God is one with no partners or associates and in the virgin birth of Jesus; we believe there is a hereafter of eternal life and eternal damnation. We don't believe we have to confess any messenger's name with the one and only true God. But Muslims must. We see that as a stranger association of idolatry. So, we must stick to the Scripture that has been revealed to us as even you Quran says that we can do no other!!!

The quran never stated that you should stick with the corrupted bible rather the quran talked about past jews and christians in the time of the prophets and jesus that they should stick with their holy book but they didn't

Actually it brings something new because it corrects the pathway of jews and christians and fights idolatry and trinity. In a way you do not believe in the same god since you preach for three the father the son and the holy ghost

As for associating the prophet with god , this just shows the degree of lack of knowledge you have
I bare wittness that there is no god but god and muhammed is his messenger

messenger not god

However you are last to talk about this you associate jesus and the holy spirit

don't christians usually say : in the name of the father, the son , the holy spirit!!!!!

[Burninglight]

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The quran never stated that you should stick with the corrupted bible rather the quran talked about past jews and christians in the time of the prophets and jesus that they should stick with their holy book but they didn't

Actually it brings something new because it corrects the pathway of jews and christians and fights idolatry and trinity. In a way you do not believe in the same god since you preach for three the father the son and the holy ghost

As for associating the prophet with god , this just shows the degree of lack of knowledge you have
I bare wittness that there is no god but god and muhammed is his messenger

messenger not god

However you are last to talk about this you associate jesus and the holy spirit

don't christians usually say : in the name of the father, the son , the holy spirit!!!!!

Look, the Quran tells us to stand on what has been revealed to us. Not that we need the advice, because we know what we need to do. The Quran doesn't say the Bible is corrupted. It says the opposite to me: Say: "O People of the Book!
Ye have no ground to stand upon
unless you stand fast
by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation
that has come to you from your Lord."
Surah 5:68
This is what we do. If the Bible is corrupted than so is the Quran, and if the Bible isn't corrupted so is the Quran, because the Quran makes itself mutually exclusive from the Scripture God promised to preserve and established forever in heaven that came first to us people of the Book.
Besides, I find a discrepancy in the Quran, for instance, Allah implies that the three we should desist from saying are the son, mother and father. Allah alludes to Mary being part of the trinity. He questions Jesus: "did you say take you and your mother to two gods besides me. There is the implied three by Allah: the son, the mother and father, No Christian worships such a trinity. Nor do any Christians consider Allah the third person of God's tri unity. Allah said, "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" who does that? Allah didn't know and had misconceptions of the Christian trinity. IOW, no Christian is in violation of the three described by Allah and his messenger. Islam is only a reaction against its own misconceptions of Christianity. So how in the world can that be a religion we should follow?
peace

[محمد سني 1989]

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Look, the Quran tells us to stand on what has been revealed to us. Not that we need the advice, because we know what we need to do. The Quran doesn't say the Bible is corrupted. It says the opposite to me: Say: "O People of the Book!
Ye have no ground to stand upon
unless you stand fast
by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation
that has come to you from your Lord."
Surah 5:68
This is what we do. If the Bible is corrupted than so is the Quran, and if the Bible isn't corrupted so is the Quran, because the Quran makes itself mutually exclusive from the Scripture God promised to preserve and established forever in heaven that came first to us people of the Book.
Besides, I find a discrepancy in the Quran, for instance, Allah implies that the three we should desist from saying are the son, mother and father. Allah alludes to Mary being part of the trinity. He questions Jesus: "did you say take you and your mother to two gods besides me. There is the implied three by Allah: the son, the mother and father, No Christian worships such a trinity. Nor do any Christians consider Allah the third person of God's tri unity. Allah said, "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" who does that? Allah didn't know and had misconceptions of the Christian trinity. IOW, no Christian is in violation of the three described by Allah and his messenger. Islam is only a reaction against its own misconceptions of Christianity. So how in the world can that be a religion we should follow?
peace

You don't get it you are misinterpirating islamic texts accroding to your own misconception and taking it to your understanding

This whole response is a weak attempt to remove us from the actual subject

here is the context of the verse you misinterpirated :

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
ًًInterpritation from tafseer ibn katheer:


(O People of the Scripture! You have nothing...) meaning no real religion until you adhere to and implement the Tawrah and the Injil. That is, until you believe in all the Books that you have that Allah revealed to the Prophets. These Books command following Muhammad and believing in his prophecy, all the while adhering to his Law.

The verse here is talking about the original revelation not the ones they have on hand, in

tafseer altabary in the interpritation of thisverse it is reported by ibn Abbas that a number of

jews came to the prophet and asked him if he belived in the torah , the prophet replied by

yes howerver stating that they changed and refused what has been said in the torah ,

ultimately this Hadeeth proves that the verse is talking about the original revelations by god


Also you said that the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of trinity Where in the world

the quran stated that mary was the third person in Trinity???

[Burninglight]

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You don't get it you are misinterpirating islamic texts accroding to your own misconception and taking it to your understanding

This whole response is a weak attempt to remove us from the actual subject

here is the context of the verse you misinterpirated :

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
ًًInterpritation from tafseer ibn katheer:


(O People of the Scripture! You have nothing...) meaning no real religion until you adhere to and implement the Tawrah and the Injil. That is, until you believe in all the Books that you have that Allah revealed to the Prophets. These Books command following Muhammad and believing in his prophecy, all the while adhering to his Law.

The verse here is talking about the original revelation not the ones they have on hand, in

tafseer altabary in the interpritation of thisverse it is reported by ibn Abbas that a number of

jews came to the prophet and asked him if he belived in the torah , the prophet replied by

yes howerver stating that they changed and refused what has been said in the torah ,

ultimately this Hadeeth proves that the verse is talking about the original revelations by god


Also you said that the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of trinity Where in the world

the quran stated that mary was the third person in Trinity???

I never said the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of the trinity; go back and read carefully. I see in the verses you quoted that we are to believe in the torah and gospel, and I see you added your interpretation that we are to believe in the Quran as well, but the verse doesn't say what you want me to believe.

Peace