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Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
Believe me.. I have been told by muslims that I as a Christian believe that Jesus being Son of God implies a physical union between Almighty God and Mary. To hear this made me feel sick, to have such blasphemy laid at the door of Christians who have never ever in the history of the world believed such a thing. Where do they get this wild idea in their head? Not the Bible for they do not read or understand it... Not from Christians because we do not believe it.. It can only come from Islam or Muslims, that they possibly misunderstand verses in the Quran is their problem not mine. I can see where the less enlightened may get that idea from these Suras such an implication can be taken. How can He have a child without a consort??? Implies that there must be a physical union for a child to result. Taken neither wife nor son..!!! Again it does rather seem from this that God needs a wife in order to have a son. Beget and begotten appears here to be used in the human sense.. Where the actual term in the Bible used is monogenes.. Which means unique.. Which is how we see Jesus.

Sura 6:102 “The originator of heavens and earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort?”


Sura 72:3 “We believe that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord - hath taken neither wife nor son.”


Sura 112:1-4 “Proclaim, 'He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him.”



and this does not seem at all incongruous to you that this almost identical passage is found in the Quran? The original from the Mishnah Sanhedrin... The Mishnah is a Jewish commentary on the Torah. It is not or ever was part of the Torah and so was not considered scripture.. Because the word for blood is in the plural in Gen. 4:10, a Rabbi came up with the supposition that all Abel's offspring had been killed with him which signified that any murder or life-saving act had universal implications. This was a theory set out in the Mishnah by a man.... Not a decree from God. How did a Rabbi's commentary make its way into the Qur'an and be quoted as word from Allah?



this cuts both ways .. Don't you think? Which I have been saying all along. You cannot judge a religion on the actions of some of its "misguided" followers. Simply because a follower is a monk or whatever does not make them any better or worse than any other follower. They are the same human in nature as anyone else, as such are sinners.. In need of redemption. No difference from some imams calling for hatred against non muslims in the name of Islam. I'm sure you would agree that they do not speak for Islam when they call for such. Such comparisons are pointless, as pointless as comparisons about Old Testament punishments and their relevance to today's Christians who live under the New Covenant. In fact, many of the Old Testament punishments such as stoning, cutting off hands and public lashing are alive and well and found in Islam... And in some parts of the world today are still used or at least the threat of their use still exists.

Peace unto you.

You have a lot of misconception about islam in your answer, clearly even the quoted verses you have not read carefully

First : None of the muslims ever stated that christians belief god had a wife and that jesus was the product, the muslims you heard may have been those who did not read the quran or are not knowledgable enough, make sure that your argument always comes from muslim scholars. As for the verses you quoted , MAKE SURE NEXT TIME THAT you take the entire contex and read the verse carefully before MISINTERPARATING it like what you just did :

The interpritation of Quran 72: 3:

(He has taken neither a wife nor a son.) meaning, far exalted is He above taking a mate and having children. This means that when the Jinns accepted Islam and believed in the Qur'an they professed Allah's magnificence above having taken a spouse and a child (or a son).

tafseer ibn katheer


This verse states that the jinn who came denied that god had a son or a concert of any kind. The jinn never reffered to christianity in the text rather in general terms. There were pagan religions back then that believed god had wife and daughters, So why say this is about Mary and jesus???

what you mentioned in Quran 6: 102 is a mistake in reference this is not chapter 6 because the verse of 6: 102 goes as this :

That is Allah , your Lord; there is no deity except Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Disposer of all things.

The third verse interpritation :

(He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.) meaning, He does not have any child, parent or spouse. Mujahid said,

Tafseer ibn katheer

Again the verse is talking in general terms including christianity and paganism in general terms , there is no mention in this verse about christians believing that christians belive that mary was wife and conceived jesus out of an actual consimation with god!!!!!!!



Second : The mishnah are oral jewish traditions tracing back to the time of moses peace be upon him youi could verify for yourself because this is a basic jewish belif. So when a rabbi puts something there he beliefs it originates from god a commandment from him. Also the IF YOU HAVE READ THE VERSE you would have known that the verse was talking about a commandment in the tradition of jews. This is the begining of the verse :
Because of that, We DECREED upon the Children of Israel

I also see that you chose to ignore the passages from the bible in my last response:
For the blood section !!! The passaage you quoted contradicts many other passages in the bible!!!such as :
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)


"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)


Or this passage is talking about the innocent not during BATTLE where a soldier kills another SOLDIER

Third:
I agree and don't agree

Agree that it could work both ways

Disagree about the old testement since the old as you believe was revealed from the same trinitarian god of love which contradicts the saying of : god is love, just and all knowing

The old testement shows signs and passages that contradict this statement

peace