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Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
I said it appears to me that these verses do allow for the fact that in certain circumstances a person can bear the sin of another.... Or burdens.. Your example below weather both parties stand condemned the lot of one still bears the greater burden of a others sin. I thank you for your explanations.



just to clarify a point.. We do not inherit Adams sin. Jesus taught that He was the only way to God the Father.. The Bible throughout teaches this fact. That God would send a redeemer. . Messiah.. To make us righteous before God. We do not believe we can by our own efforts achieve this. God has decreed a blood sacrifice has to be paid for sin.. By His grace He provided the final perfect lamb of God, just as He did for Abraham when He provided the ram.. Only the perfect lamb as sinless is the final sacrifice for all. All who are His are saved by grace. It does not mean we are absolved from the sins of our own actions.



As Christians we live under the new covenant.. To see this verse in context it refers to a person living under the covenant of the Torah (the Law of Moses). Ezekiel 18:20 is addressing the Israelites who were living under the Torah. So we have to see the context of these verses is the Torah. If we want to understand the verses we need to understand some basics about the Torah...When somebody living under the Torah sinned they were responsible for what they had done, but if they repented they could be forgiven by a sacrifice that would bear their sin before God. The Torah explains this in Leviticus...

(H)e must bring as his offering for the sin he committed a female goat without defect. He is to lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it at the place of the burnt offering. Then the priest is to take some of the blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering and pour out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar. He shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven.

We see...


For the life of a creature is in the blood , and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life. (Leviticus 17:11)


This is why a lot of the Torah teaches about priests, sacrifices and the tabernacle/temple where the sacrifices were offered. The Torah teaches individual responsibility and forgiveness through a substitute sacrifice that bears our sin. These verses are not saying there is no sacrifice that can bear our sin. Instead they are saying that we are individually responsible for our sins and need to seek forgiveness through God's provision of a substitute sacrifice that can bear our sin. These verses confirm what Christianity teaches. The law which Jesus fulfilled means we do not have to offer substitutionary sacrifices.. Because of the work of Jesus on the cross. So to surmise.. Christians as followers of Jesus are under the new covenant that was authored by Him.

I hope this explains in some way your issue with Ezekiel.

peace

The point of discussion between us whether god can FORGIVE ALL THE SIN OF OTHERS by one person who is innocent takes the burdon of ALL humanity

Of course all the jews , muslims and christians agree that if a certain someone misguides an entire group he will have his sins and the sins of misguiding people but jews and muslims also agree that those whom have been misled will also have THOSE SINS TOO

I hope that you focus on the point because the way you are putting it is taking A PART of what I said and applying it and comparing it to your belief WHICH DOES NOT WORK AS STATED IN THE QURAN IN VARIOUS PLACES :

And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And if a heavily laden soul calls [another] to [carry some of] its load, nothing of it will be carried, even if he should be a close relative. You can only warn those who fear their Lord unseen and have established prayer. And whoever purifies himself only purifies himself for [the benefit of] his soul. And to Allah is the [final] destination.

Quran Surah Fatir verse 18

Second yes in christianity you do inherit the sin of Adam :

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Romans 5:12-14

I hope that when you make a claim you back it up




As for the last part you are way off :

First although the passage in Eziekiel was addressing the israelites Paul makes it CLEAR THAT DURING THAT TIME THEY WERE ALL SINFULL :

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Romans 5: 14

Second : the passage you reffered to was about ANIMAL SACRIFICE WHICH ALSO EXISTS IN ISLAM NOT HUMAN AND CERTAINLY NOT DEVINE!!!!
(H)e must bring as his offering for the sin he committed a female goat without defect

Third : in the same passage the sins of the israelites were forgiven :
In this way the priest will make atonement for him, and he will be forgiven.
This is a clear contradiction to the teachings of paul

Fourth : There were MANY circumstances in the old testement were god forgave people without animal sacrifice :

10 When God saw their actions—they turned from their evil way of living!—God relented concerning the judgment he had threatened them with and he did not destroy them.

Jonah 3:10

Fifth and more importantly is that the passage in leviticous is the caes of forgiveness ONLY WHEN AN ISRAELITE EATS BLOOD:

10 “‘Any man from the house of Israel or from the foreigners who reside in their midst who eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats the blood, and I will cut him off from the midst of his people, 11 for the life of every living thing is in the blood. So I myself have assigned it to you on the altar to make atonement for your lives, for the blood makes atonement by means of the life.

LEVITICUS17: 10-11

This also exists in Islam which is sometimes reffered to as Kaffara كفارة

These verses disproves christianity it CLEARLY STATES THAT SOMEONE may not bear the sins of others , blood sacrifice is ONLY OF ANIMALS IN SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES ONLY AS STATED IN LEVITICUS, People were forgiven of sins in leviticus and jonah but inheritted in Romans A CLEAR CONTRADICTION

Ezikiel clearly states a Father cannot pass down his sins to the child while romans states that we were all in sin before jeusus even during the time of moses (Death in Adam, Life in Jesus)


I hope that you review the old testament carefully before quoting it , please know the CONTEXT of the passages you qoute

peace on you and may god guide you