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on one level.. Not a lot, in this particular miracle Jesus was not proving to mankind His validity as a prophet.. he was bringing to the understanding of the disciples of who He was. Which as per our belief was more than a prophet. We're going to differ here... Each to their own and all that.
Very well .
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interesting point.. Does the Quran tell you how to distinguish between a true and false prophet as the Bible does? I thought it claimed you should believe and trust in all prophets. We know false prophets can also have miracles and signs.. Not all miracles are from God.
It tells us to believe in REAL prophets . That includes the ones Quran named and ones it didn't name . And for the record , prophet Muhammad peace upon him is the last of the prophets and messengers with the last message to mankind . Anyone who shows up after that claiming prophecy is a false one to us by default .
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my faith is not blind.. It is based on the Spirit of truth that is God.
I didn't say it is .
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You can't prove faith.. Faith is what you have in the absence of logic. How can you ever hope for God and all God is to conform to human understanding and logic? So how can you prove to me that Islam is truth?
We seem to differ a lot here . If th word "faith" means believe without evidence , I'll just use "belief" . We have different reasons to believe that Islam is true . And they're all logical . They don't have to be logical in the sense of "Scientifical and material" but logical to the mind . We see evidence in that the prophet peace upon him can't be a liar - his people always called him the honest and truthful - , we see evidence in that he invites to a true religion exalting the creator from any form of negative charecteristics allegated to him by other ones . We see evidence in the numeral miracles on multiple scales in Quran and Sunnah . But most importantly , we see proof in how it speaks to the pure nature of the heart .
Pandora , you can't possibly mean what you said about logic and faith being different because logic can change and faith is unshakeable . If so , we might someday see this equations of Atheism true (0+0=1) and tha's complete absurdity ! There are things called self evident truths "Badeehyyat" which can never be changed . Scientific and physical laws and theories aren't ones of them and maybe that's what you meant . On the other hand , if faith is unshakable and we should take that as proof , everyone can claim he's on the right path even those who worship cows . And no , it's not unshable . Otherwise , no one of any religion would leave it for another which clearly isn't the case .
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never said I didn't accept it in Islam. I may have said the reasons in Islam as to why it happened may differ.. But the recording event itself I have no issues with.
I see .
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financially.. No way as God does not deal in cash. materially.. Again doubtful.. As that implies storing up treasures on earth which do not benefit anyone in eternity. Bodily.. That may be pertinent.. Because as our time on earth we are body.. As that body contains our spirit and the spirit being the concern of God, then a miracle should be considered to hold some benefit to the body..
Weather it be bringing understanding of how best to live our lives ensuring our spirit returns to our creator in good state. Or the understanding through using our body, mind and spirit to best serve mankind and further enlightenment and understanding of God. I see that has a place and a benefit.
To clear things , I seem to have been unclear . In Arabic , the word "Maal" means whatever a person owns . I thought it can be translated to "financially" . Thus , if the word means "Cash" , I went in the wrong direction .
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I am supposing nothing. There is no evidence that this happened. It would be written and documented in independent sources and known world wide like the flood of Noah recorded in all cultures. The splitting of the moon would've cause tidal flooding all around the world, and billions of people groups, tongues, nations, and languages would have seen the moon spilt and documented it. If some remote people saw it happen, I would take it to have been an illusion. Besides, faith doesn't require one to see God's power, and when God does something supernatural or a miracle, it is for a good reason and not just to show off His power. We know by faith God has power, and those who don't have faith even if they see God's miracles they will still not believe. So what is the point of splitting the moon, and what is it with the crescent moon over the Mosques? There seems to be moon based things going on in Islam that I don't understand.
I take it back , there's a huge gap between you and Pandora . I'm talking with two individuals on completely different levels ! And even though you contradict yourself and book with your continuous baseless attacks on Islam , you just keep doing it . Not to mention that you have this annoying habit of spamming slanders one after another which are completely unrelated to the subject . So I'm not wrong when I say you'r clearly insecure .
First of all pal , a miracle doesn't have to be explained with science . And to clear things up , you need to know that "Science" isn't "Knowledge" , it's a mere fragment of it . Science deals only on the material level . So when you want me to explain the existence of angels materially , you're asking for something absurd . Secondly , the miracle of the moon splitting was mainly for the pagans at Makkah who asked for a miracle . Some believed and the stubborn didn't . So it wouldn't be surprising if other people didn't see it . Still , they DID see it . No , I won't show you the crack on the moon by NASA as it's debatable but actual cultures recording the incident . This is in India :
[IMG]http://www.iosworld.org/interview_cheramul.htm[/url]
And there's a mention about manscriptues of Madrid , I lost the page really , but this is the quote :
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" There is a Persian manuscript illumination which shows a similar white mountain (in the background) and a mountain covered with flowers and fruit (as veggies), and a weird gash in the earth behind a man who is looking at a split faced moon similar to those found in the Madrid Codex on the top register of pages 91-92 and 93. 1
Wanna see the Persian manuscriot ? Here :
[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Mohammed_Splits_the_Moon.jpg/300px-Mohammed_Splits_the_Moon.jpg[/IMG]
Oh . and a Muslim asked a library of the Indian manuscript and got this message in return :
So when you ask "Why didn't floods happen" and all , you're contradicting the meaning of a miracle ! And don't get me started because based on this flawed thinking I can say the same about any miracle in the Bible .
Thirdly , trying to force your slander further by saying "God doesn't do things to show off" is a cheap attempt and it can be used the same way with any mentioned miracle in any religion .
And if you keep the STUPID widely spread farce of "Muslims worship the moon" , you're gonna get it . It's enough that Quran says :
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2:189 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the new moons. Say, "They are measurements of time for the people and for Hajj." And it is not righteousness to enter houses from the back, but righteousness is [in] one who fears Allah. And enter houses from their doors. And fear Allah that you may succeed.
And :
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14:33 And He subjected for you the sun and the moon, continuous [in orbit], and subjected for you the night and the day.
And there are numerous signs in Quran about subjecting the sun and moon . AND :
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41:37 And of His signs are the night and day and the sun and moon.
Do not prostrate to the sun or to the moon, but prostate to Allah , who created them, if it should be Him that you worship.
The crecent was the adopted by the Ottomans - ever saw the flag of Turkey ? -and it doesn't hold any religious meaning in Islam . I can take any crescent on a mosque and step on it - Not literally of course , that's vandelizing - so can you do the same with a cross ?
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Uhm, do you mean blind faith as in believing the moon was spilt without evidence?
Or like that Jesus walked on water without evidence ? Don't say the Bible because I can claim it's corrupted just to fend you off although I have other reasons to believe it is .
So are you going to discuss like a normal person would or do you just want to embarass yourself more ? I don't have an issue , but if you want it , I can drop the fancy treatment and treat you the same way you treat others .
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Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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