QuoteOriginally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ
Thank you for the warmth of your welcome.
I do not know what you imply by "secrets"something that is well known is not a secret. That is what I don't understand your meaning. It's irrelevant what denomination I consider myself, and within Christianity they are denominations .. Not sects.. Well, unless you count maybe Jehovah's witnesses or the like. The main denominations of Christianity all hold to the same main point. No matter where one lives in the world Christians believe the same... We may differ in traditional practices which may hold more or less importance within some denominations than others. Nothing on your list of seven can be considered a "secret". If you would like me to go through the list and explain what each mean and why they are important I will be happy to do so.QuoteAre you really sure that you do not know what I mean with "The seven secrets of the Church"???. Would you like to tell me if you are Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox . Also where do you live? Because that is differ from one sect to another.
Only the Quran says Jesus said this, ~ " I have finished the work which thou gave me to do"~ and as the Quran does not teach any of Jesus' mission then it is rather meaningless to Christians. In fact I'm not sure what muslims take from Jesus at all... Considering that you claim to revere Him so much as a prophet. I'm not sure what you are actually recognising and acknowledging here, because you deny the very mission Jesus was sent to complete was even necessary. For sure everything that ends has a beginning, the beginning was the birth of the Messiah... (Yet the need for this goes right back to the very beginning and stems from Adam.) it was finished with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jesus conquered death so we can achieve eternal life... That was His mission and He completed it according to the will of God the Father.QuoteJesus (peace be upon him) said:" I have finished the work which thou gave me to do". Then Jesus has finished the mission that Allah ordered him to do as the will of Allah completely . We recognize and acknowledge that . With little understanding and natural thinking we know that any thing has finishing (end) must has a beginning. Then the mission of Jesus was limited . Also Jesus was carrying out the will of Allah not the will of himself. Is that prove that Jesus was God or the servant of God and the messenger of Allah.
QuotePlease read from the Bible:
30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me (JON 5/30).
John 6/38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me
26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him."( JON8/26)
29And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him." (JON 8/29)
In all these verses there are two persons. The first one is the High King who issues the orders and instructions and the second one who is the servant or the Minster or the prophet who follows and carries out the orders and instructions of the King. He is keen on to implement the will of the king only. He is the mediator between the King and his parish. The Bible describes Jesus as a man who is the mediator between God and men. Read (Timo 2/5 ) that says:" For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus". Is there a phrase more explained than that that Jesus is a man and he is Mediator between God and men (so were all prophets and messengers of Allah).
To be continuedI don't understand why you feel the need to push this point. It would only be valid if Christians believed Jesus was a god in His own right with His own powers. As Christians have never viewed Jesus in this way then the point I think you are trying to make here is not valid. Of course Jesus was a man, a man of flesh and as such his bodily needs were the same as any man of flesh existing. Where Christ differs and why we cannot compare ourselves to Him is His sharing of the divine nature or essence of the Father. That is why He is the ONE mediator between God and man, because only a sinless being can approach a Holy God on our behalf. Jesus has always existed with God as His Word... Was there ever a time God did not have His word? His Word is the means of communication with mankind. Don't forget God as supreme creator cannot be seen... Who was revealed to the Prophets Abraham, Moses... Etc ? If not Gods Word.Quote
i will leave you with the seven final things Jesus said on earth, maybe from that you can judge weather or not you feel His mission was completed or not.
1) Jesus Speaks to the Father
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." (NIV)
In the midst of his excruciating suffering, the heart of Jesus was focused on others rather than himself. Here we see the nature of his love—unconditional and divine.
2) Jesus Speaks to the Criminal on the Cross
Luke 23:43
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." (NIV)
One of the criminals who was crucified with Christ, had recognized who Jesus was and expressed faith in him as Savior. Here we see grace poured out through faith, as Jesus assured the dying man of his forgiveness and eternal salvation.
3) Jesus Speaks to Mary and John
John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." (NIV)
Jesus, looking down from the cross, was still filled with the concerns of a son for the earthly needs of his mother. None of his brothers were there to care for her, so he gave this task to the Apostle John. Here we clearly see Christ's humanity.
4) Jesus Cries Out to the Father
Matthew 27:46 (also Mark 15:34)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (NKJV)
In the darkest hours of his suffering, Jesus cried out the opening words of Psalm 22. And although much has been suggested regarding the meaning of this phrase, it was quite apparent the agony Christ felt as he expressed separation from God. Here we see the Father turning way from the Son as Jesus bore the full weight of our sin.
5) Jesus is Thirsty
John 19:28
Jesus knew that everything was now finished, and to fulfill the Scriptures he said, "I am thirsty." (NLT)
Jesus refused the initial drink of vinegar, gall and myrrh (Matthew 27:34 and Mark 15:23) offered to alleviate his suffering. But here, several hours later, we see Jesus fulfilling the messianic prophecy found in Psalm 69:21.
6) It is Finished
John 19:30
... he said, "It is finished!" (NLT)
Jesus knew he was suffering the crucifixion for a purpose. Earlier he had said in John 10:18 of his life, "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." (NIV) These three words were packed with meaning, for what was finished here was not only Christ's earthly life, not only his suffering and dying, not only the payment for sin and the redemption of the world—but the very reason and purpose he came to earth was finished. His final act of obedience was complete. The Scriptures had been fulfilled.
7) Jesus' Last Words
Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. (NIV)
Here Jesus closes with the words of Psalm 31:5, speaking to the Father. We see his complete trust in the Father. Jesus entered death in the same way he lived each day of his life, offering up his life as the perfect sacrifice and placing himself in God's hands.
Peace and blessings to you.
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